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Phillip Van Cleave featured in Richmond Times Dispatch

Thundar

Thundar

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Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
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Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

VCDL President wrote:
Thundar wrote:
DrMark wrote:
Thundar wrote:
VCDL ought to be more agressive and work for Constitutional Carry and a Virginia Firearms Freedom Act.
Click to expand...

Feel free to correct my poor memory, but didn't VCDL push a Virginia Firearms Freedom Act this past session?

IIRC, it was killed by Banjo Dick's Death Star committee.
Click to expand...
No Doc, VCDL didn't push the bill. It was not even a "strongly support" bill for VCDL. Libertarians carried the water for that one. Unfortunately the Illegal Senate Sub-Committee killed it.
Click to expand...
That's a mischaracterization (and I'm being generous here). VCDL did push the bill, but not as hard as the strongly support bills. A position of neutral would be no pushing at all. I spoke on the bill in subcommittee, we had VA-ALERT action items on it, and I spoke at the rally for it (VCDL supplied the audio system for that rally, too).

If you call that nothing or VCDL not pushing it, then I simply don't know what further can be said.

VCDL had a huge agenda, we had to prioritize, and so we did. The Campaign for Liberty and other Tea Party groups were working hard on that bill, so the majority of VCDL's resources were better placed on the restaurant ban repeal, k-12 school carry, closure of the CHP list from dissemination, work parking lot storage, etc.

That strategy was working well for all the bills until the train wreck in the Senate.
Click to expand...

Didn't mean to ruffle yer feathers.

I just didn't seemuch support for this bill compared to all of the permission slip enhanceent bills thatVCDL strongly supported.

I hope you are right about cleaning out the House of Delegates and the Senate. We havesome freedom hating/gun hating Republicans and Democrats that need an electoral firing squad!
 
V

VCDL President

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600
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Midlothian, Virginia, USA
imported post

Thundar wrote:
VCDL President wrote:
Thundar wrote:
DrMark wrote:
Thundar wrote:
VCDL ought to be more agressive and work for Constitutional Carry and a Virginia Firearms Freedom Act.
Click to expand...

Feel free to correct my poor memory, but didn't VCDL push a Virginia Firearms Freedom Act this past session?

IIRC, it was killed by Banjo Dick's Death Star committee.
Click to expand...
No Doc, VCDL didn't push the bill. It was not even a "strongly support" bill for VCDL. Libertarians carried the water for that one. Unfortunately the Illegal Senate Sub-Committee killed it.
Click to expand...
That's a mischaracterization (and I'm being generous here). VCDL did push the bill, but not as hard as the strongly support bills. A position of neutral would be no pushing at all. I spoke on the bill in subcommittee, we had VA-ALERT action items on it, and I spoke at the rally for it (VCDL supplied the audio system for that rally, too).

If you call that nothing or VCDL not pushing it, then I simply don't know what further can be said.

VCDL had a huge agenda, we had to prioritize, and so we did. The Campaign for Liberty and other Tea Party groups were working hard on that bill, so the majority of VCDL's resources were better placed on the restaurant ban repeal, k-12 school carry, closure of the CHP list from dissemination, work parking lot storage, etc.

That strategy was working well for all the bills until the train wreck in the Senate.
Click to expand...

Didn't mean to ruffle yer feathers.

I just didn't seemuch support for this bill compared to all of the permission slip enhanceent bills thatVCDL strongly supported.

I hope you are right about cleaning out the House of Delegates and the Senate. We havesome freedom hating/gun hating Republicans and Democrats that need an electoral firing squad!
Click to expand...
I grant you that compared to things like the restaurant ban repeal, work-carry, and non-dissemination of CHP info, the level of support was low. But don't underestimate what effort still went into that bill. As far as the permission slip bills, VCDL was founded to get shall-issue concealed carry passed and to expand and protect where we can carry. Open carry came a long later and is something we protect and work on, but I do not apologize for VCDL working to expand where CHP holders can carry. Don't forget that there are 220,000 CHP holders in Virginia.
 
Thundar

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

VCDL President wrote:
Thundar wrote:
VCDL President wrote:
Thundar wrote:
DrMark wrote:
Thundar wrote:
VCDL ought to be more agressive and work for Constitutional Carry and a Virginia Firearms Freedom Act.
Click to expand...

Feel free to correct my poor memory, but didn't VCDL push a Virginia Firearms Freedom Act this past session?

IIRC, it was killed by Banjo Dick's Death Star committee.
Click to expand...
No Doc, VCDL didn't push the bill. It was not even a "strongly support" bill for VCDL. Libertarians carried the water for that one. Unfortunately the Illegal Senate Sub-Committee killed it.
Click to expand...
That's a mischaracterization (and I'm being generous here). VCDL did push the bill, but not as hard as the strongly support bills. A position of neutral would be no pushing at all. I spoke on the bill in subcommittee, we had VA-ALERT action items on it, and I spoke at the rally for it (VCDL supplied the audio system for that rally, too).

If you call that nothing or VCDL not pushing it, then I simply don't know what further can be said.

VCDL had a huge agenda, we had to prioritize, and so we did. The Campaign for Liberty and other Tea Party groups were working hard on that bill, so the majority of VCDL's resources were better placed on the restaurant ban repeal, k-12 school carry, closure of the CHP list from dissemination, work parking lot storage, etc.

That strategy was working well for all the bills until the train wreck in the Senate.
Click to expand...

Didn't mean to ruffle yer feathers.

I just didn't seemuch support for this bill compared to all of the permission slip enhanceent bills thatVCDL strongly supported.

I hope you are right about cleaning out the House of Delegates and the Senate. We havesome freedom hating/gun hating Republicans and Democrats that need an electoral firing squad!
Click to expand...
I grant you that compared to things like the restaurant ban repeal, work-carry, and non-dissemination of CHP info, the level of support was low. But don't underestimate what effort still went into that bill. As far as the permission slip bills, VCDL was founded to get shall-issue concealed carry passed and to expand and protect where we can carry. Open carry came a long later and is something we protect and work on, but I do not apologize for VCDL working to expand where CHP holders can carry. Don't forget that there are 220,000 CHP holders in Virginia.
Click to expand...
Philip,

I didn't mean to offend and I am sorry if I did. There is no need for you to explain the inner workings of VCDL to us. That you took this effort to make the workings of VCDL transparent speaks loudly for the good work that you do.

VCDL is a good organization. I fly more with the libertarian crowd and OCDO because I believe the real fight is for gun rights, not gun privileges and VCDL works harder on privileges than rights.

I was really happy to see VCDL fight the at will misdemeanor arrest bill.

I hope VCDL continues its honest appraisal of election candidates. Libertarians should do quite well with VCDL endorsements. I think you let John Redcloud off way too easy when he was running for Governor.

I have a permission slip (CHP) because I didn't realize that one could simply carry openly. Don't think I will pay to renew my permission slip this time. Just doesn't suit me.
 
Marco

Marco

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Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
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Location
Greene County
imported post



VCDL President wrote:
there are 220,000 CHP holders in Virginia.
Click to expand...
If just 1/3 of those would join VCDL it would be, one could only imagine the clout VCDLwould carry.
Considering all of them have benefited from VCDL's work.

 
TFred

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
imported post

Agent19 wrote:
VCDL President wrote:
there are 220,000 CHP holders in Virginia.
Click to expand...
If just 1/3 of those would join VCDL it would be, one could only imagine the clout VCDLwould carry.
Considering all of them have benefited from VCDL's work.
Click to expand...
And considering one of the excuses the anti-gunners always give for keeping the CHP database open to the public is for educational marketing, maybe we should start a membership campaign... ha ha ha kill two birds with one post-card, so to speak...
Dear Mr. Smith,

Virginia law required the court clerk of (your county) to provide your personal information to us due to the fact that you have been issued a Concealed Handgun Permit.

The VCDL is hoping that you are outraged at this fact, and that you will consider joining our ranks and support our efforts to close this gaping hole in your privacy, so that nobody will be able to obtain this information in the future.

Send your check to....
​
:p

TFred
 
V

VCDL President

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Joined
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Messages
600
Location
Midlothian, Virginia, USA
imported post

Thundar,

No problem - I was a little offended, but I'll get over it. ;)

I've watched your posts over time and know you are a strong activist. I appreciate your input and I know where you are coming from. I am a libertarian at heart as well.
 
V

VCDL President

Centurion
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
600
Location
Midlothian, Virginia, USA
imported post

TFred wrote:
Agent19 wrote:
VCDL President wrote:
there are 220,000 CHP holders in Virginia.
Click to expand...
If just 1/3 of those would join VCDL it would be, one could only imagine the clout VCDLwould carry.
Considering all of them have benefited from VCDL's work.
Click to expand...
And considering one of the excuses the anti-gunners always give for keeping the CHP database open to the public is for educational marketing, maybe we should start a membership campaign... ha ha ha kill two birds with one post-card, so to speak...
Click to expand...
Dear Mr. Smith,

Virginia law required the court clerk of (your county) to provide your personal information to us due to the fact that you have been issued a Concealed Handgun Permit.

The VCDL is hoping that you are outraged at this fact, and that you will consider joining our ranks and support our efforts to close this gaping hole in your privacy, so that nobody will be able to obtain this information in the future.

Send your check to....
Click to expand...
:p

TFred
Click to expand...
You know TFred, great minds think alike. :) We had one of our Board members say almost the exact same thing to me. It sure seems like it might be a smart way to get a strong alliance to fix the newspaper loophole.
 
45acpForMe

45acpForMe

Newbie
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
imported post

TFred wrote:
Agent19 wrote: 
VCDL President wrote:
 there are 220,000 CHP holders in Virginia.
Click to expand...
If just 1/3 of those would join VCDL it would be, one could only imagine the clout VCDL would carry.
Considering all of them have benefited from VCDL's work.
Click to expand...
And considering one of the excuses the anti-gunners always give for keeping the CHP database open to the public is for educational marketing, maybe we should start a membership campaign... ha ha ha kill two birds with one post-card, so to speak...
Dear Mr. Smith,

Virginia law required the court clerk of (your county) to provide your personal information to us due to the fact that you have been issued a Concealed Handgun Permit.

The VCDL is hoping that you are outraged at this fact, and that you will consider joining our ranks and support our efforts to close this gaping hole in your privacy, so that nobody will be able to obtain this information in the future.

Send your check to....
​
:p

TFred
Click to expand...

That is a great idea even though it would take quite a bit of work. I suggest targeting the districts where senators and delegates voted against closing the privacy gaping hole and reminding them that their representative didn't want to help them.
 
TFred

TFred

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
imported post

45acpForMe wrote:
TFred wrote:
Agent19 wrote:
VCDL President wrote:
there are 220,000 CHP holders in Virginia.
Click to expand...
If just 1/3 of those would join VCDL it would be, one could only imagine the clout VCDLwould carry.
Considering all of them have benefited from VCDL's work.
Click to expand...
And considering one of the excuses the anti-gunners always give for keeping the CHP database open to the public is for educational marketing, maybe we should start a membership campaign... ha ha ha kill two birds with one post-card, so to speak...
Dear Mr. Smith,

Virginia law required the court clerk of (your county) to provide your personal information to us due to the fact that you have been issued a Concealed Handgun Permit.

The VCDL is hoping that you are outraged at this fact, and that you will consider joining our ranks and support our efforts to close this gaping hole in your privacy, so that nobody will be able to obtain this information in the future.

Send your check to....
​
:p

TFred
Click to expand...
That is a great idea even though it would take quite a bit of work. I suggest targeting the districts where senators and delegates voted against closing the privacy gaping hole and reminding them that their representative didn't want to help them.
Click to expand...
Maybe we should also send them a pre-printed post-card addressed to the appropriate legislator(s) along with the membership package.

It would certainly take a lot of effort, I would think it would be localized.

TFred
 
peter nap

peter nap

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Joined
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Messages
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Valhalla
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Well Philip. the session is over and as of 7/1 the Restaurant bill is history.
On to other things .....next session. If I said this one was going to be interesting, watch out for the next one. Not only will we have to fight the budget for space, this Oil Spill will be making life miserable for McDonnell.

Plus, it's wait and see if he comes through with his super secret plan for OC.:uhoh:

All that aside, it's time to let the politics rest for a little and GIVE YOU A BIG HAND FOR THE WORK YOU DID AND CONTINUE TO DO.

Thank you!

clapping-hands-lg1.jpg


VCDL President wrote:
Interesting watching something take on a life of its own as I read through this thread.

Where did I ever say that getting an equitable restaurant law was the number one priority for VCDL? Repealing the restaurant ban was a top priority, but now we are talking about a tweak.

The tweak is an issue that the reporter was fascinated with and he ran with it, giving us a chance to educate the public on the issue.

The restaurant issue is something that should be fixed one way or the other so that those who can carry concealed are all treated equally, but it won't be anywhere near our top priority.

VCDL is more than aware of the issue with employers banning guns in parking lots and we pushed hard on a bill to fix that this year. Why would you expect us to drop the issue next year? We never stopped going after the restaurant ban for the 15 years it was around. We also had bills for Castle Doctrine, improving K-12 carry (2 bills), protecting the private info of CHP holders from release by courts, and more.

I don't understand why so many still don't understand that VCDL has many issues it takes on each year. Just because one issue gets coverage in the press doesn't mean that it was our one and only issue.

You want to come to VCDL meetings and talk about your priorities? Excellent, that's one of the many things people do at those meetings. Usually you can address many from leadership and some of our Executive members at any of our meetings. And I can be reached by phone and email for that matter. I hear from members all the time and have a pretty good idea of what's important to most of you.

VCDL as a group keeps its finger on the pulse of gun owners and with over 50 Executive members, not much slips by us. And don't forget that the members of leadership are all gun owners and subject to the same good and bad gun laws as everyone else, reminding us regularly of the shortcomings of current Virginia law.
Click to expand...
 
V

VCDL President

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Thank you, Peter. VCDL's leadership, Executive members, the 1,000 that showed up for Lobby Day and those 14,000 gun owners on VA-ALERT deserve that hand. :cool:

I'm glad you reminded me about that OC issue - I need to see what's going on. I also need to start working the slow background check issues, too. I was waiting for the legislative season to be over before starting something new.

Truth is that there is seldom a break any more, but that is really a good thing for gun owners.
 
peter nap

peter nap

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Joined
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Messages
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VCDL President wrote:
I'm glad you reminded me about that OC issue - I need to see what's going on. I
Click to expand...
As of Monday, the plan is the same :uhoh:
He's attending the off shore technology conference in Texas on Monday and he's breaking out in monkey bites over that.
 
V

VCDL President

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peter nap wrote:
VCDL President wrote:
I'm glad you reminded me about that OC issue - I need to see what's going on. I
Click to expand...
As of Monday, the plan is the same :uhoh:
He's attending the off shore technology conference in Texas on Monday and he's breaking out in monkey bites over that.
Click to expand...
I'll talk to his aides - I didn't expect to talk to him directly - not really necessary.
 
A

AbNo

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Thundar wrote:
DrMark wrote:
Thundar wrote:
VCDL ought to be more agressive and work for Constitutional Carry and a Virginia Firearms Freedom Act.
Click to expand...

Feel free to correct my poor memory, but didn't VCDL push a Virginia Firearms Freedom Act this past session?

IIRC, it was killed by Banjo Dick's Death Star committee.
Click to expand...
No Doc, VCDL didn't push the bill. It was not even a "strongly support" bill for VCDL. Libertarians carried the water for that one. Unfortunately the Illegal Senate Sub-Committee killed it.
Click to expand...
If that's an illegal subcomittee, why aren't they thrown out on their arses?
 
V

VCDL President

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Messages
600
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Midlothian, Virginia, USA
imported post

AbNo wrote:
Thundar wrote:
DrMark wrote:
Thundar wrote:
VCDL ought to be more agressive and work for Constitutional Carry and a Virginia Firearms Freedom Act.
Click to expand...

Feel free to correct my poor memory, but didn't VCDL push a Virginia Firearms Freedom Act this past session?

IIRC, it was killed by Banjo Dick's Death Star committee.
Click to expand...
No Doc, VCDL didn't push the bill. It was not even a "strongly support" bill for VCDL. Libertarians carried the water for that one. Unfortunately the Illegal Senate Sub-Committee killed it.
Click to expand...
If that's an illegal subcomittee, why aren't they thrown out on their arses?
Click to expand...
For the same reason that the fox guarding the hen house isn't going to fire himself if a hen disappears during his watch.
 
TFred

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I don't think it was so much an "illegal subcommittee" as it was a subcommittee (and its parent committee) that openly and defiantly broke the rules, simply because they were not happy with what the outcome would have been if they did not.

Much frustration was caused by Lt. Gov Bill Bolling's decision to wait until the session was over to proclaim that that was indeed what happened.

I don't know what is going on behind the scenes, and those that do are probably not willing to disclose that in a public forum, but I hope that if they try it again next year, there will be other actions taken.

How can we have any faith in a legislative body that makes "rules" for us to follow and live our lives by, if that body ignores their own?

TFred
 
A

AbNo

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Ok, in plain language, what I'm asking is: Why is this supposedly illegal committee being allowed to act in any official capacity, and, being that it is an illegal committee, why are their decisions not invalidated?

I mean, if that's the case, why don't we just make a committee that approves and disapproves bill at a whim?
 
V

VCDL President

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AbNo wrote:
Ok, in plain language, what I'm asking is: Why is this supposedly illegal committee being allowed to act in any official capacity, and, being that it is an illegal committee, why are their decisions not invalidated?

I mean, if that's the case, why don't we just make a committee that approves and disapproves bill at a whim?
Click to expand...
Shssssssh! Don't give them any ideas! :shock:

Shows you what desperate people will do, though. The leadership of the Senate, which broke the rules, is supposed to police itself. And you need to have people who are trustworthy to do so, and they have shown everyone that they are not trustworthy.

Breaking the rules of the Senate and being illegal are not the same thing. There are no criminal charges for such a thing. Again my reference to the fox protecting the hen house.
 
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