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Thread: Lawmakers want to deploy the Nat'l Guard in Chicago

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    I just watched a report on Fox on this:

    Two lawmakers want to deploy the Nat'l Guard in Chicago to fight crime because it is so high. The superintendent of police is against it. He rightly points out that military don't generally worry about the rights of individuals as they set about doing the harsh things that they do.

    I have a different idea. How about letting the good folks in Chicago protect themselves by, say, I don't know, carrying a pistol?

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    I am sure it was not intended as an insult. Military training is vastly different from police training. Except in the event of complete societal breakdown, it would be foolish to use those trained to make war to enforce the laws.

    The point I was hoping to get folks to address is that the solution of allowing LACs to be armed is being ignored.

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    If Chicago got rid of 38.6% of its population overnight, it'd be a WHOLE lot better there for everyone else crime-wise. After that, send another 26% packing to improve things further. Finally, mop-up among what's are left and sendthose loserspacking, too (can we deport them ALL to Canada?).Raze any public housing/tenements/run-down low-life apartments/crack-house neighborhoodsto the ground and never rebuild them. End result: Things would be a lot more peaceful, safe (even at night) and no more additional cops would be needed, and certainly no National Guard. Chicago would be a NICE place to live afterwards after all the trash was gone and you could see the potential.

    After that was done (or concurrently would be better)it's time for my 'prison reform' plan...no more new prisons would be needed and many of them would bevacant and therefore available forrehabbing/remodeling for other uses.

    Of course that won't happen, but tell me that would not have a HUGE impact on crime and turning things around literally overnight. It would in ANY city in this country where there are problems (even here where I live).

    Oh, I almost forgot: Get rid of sorry Mayor Daley, all his cronies and anyone else who share his liberal PC socialist 'vision' because we can't have them still there or it'd start all over again. House-cleaning on thisscale should only need to be done once.

    -- John D.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    eye95 wrote:
    The superintendent of police is against it. He rightly points out that military don't generally worry about the rights of individuals as they set about doing the harsh things that they do.
    I see that you agree with the superintendant's opinion of the military....


    Can he support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.

    The thing I like about the OC community, as opposed to the antis, is that usually they post rationally, not emotionally. We should leave the emotionally-charged, rash, and unsupported claims to the anti community.


    Personally, I find that statement to be so vile that it demands objective proof or to be denounced by any rational person.

    That is a vile and unacceptable thing to say without proof. I frankly don't care if proving the generalization is impossible. Proving generalizations is horribly difficult. That is precisely why we should not generalize--especially in an insulting way.


    Moving on until such proof can be provided. :P

    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

    Carry on!

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    Ooops...I wasn't being 'rational' just fantasizing (again)...so don't count me amongst the "OC Community" lest I give you alla bad rep!

    -- John D.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Deleted-- double post happened.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Military training does not include search warrants, Terry stops, civil rights, etc.

    Law enforcement training does.

    If that is not sufficient support, by all means, move on. I will too.

    Again, this statement was not meant to be an insult. It is a practical recognition that the training given to military and law enforcement are different--which is why freedom-loving people do not want the military doing law enforcement.

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    Well, I think the militaryshouldn't be doing 'nation building' in sorry hell-hole useless hate-America countries, either. That's insane (and I shouldknow what insane is). Besides,when we leave, it will all go back to their 'traditional sectarian Stone Age' violence anyway. What a complete waste of American blood and treasure...

    And the National Guard shouldn't be overseas anyway, it should stay HERE!

    I think itironic though that some Chicago lawmakers are calling for the National Guard to deploy in their cities. How embarrassing to admit you can't control your own city. Isn't Mayor Daley's anti-gun agenda working? Chicago should bea one of the SAFEST and PEACEFUL cities in the country...kind of like New Orleans, right?

    ...which reminds me: MaybeDaley should consult with that other POS loser and former Mayor Nagin of New Orleans/Katrinainfamy, who called in the National Guard because his mostly Democtrat cityALSO had out-of-control violence he and his NOPD couldn't handle. Maybe Nagin could give Daley some tips?

    Two Democrat mayors who can't control their cities. I bet there are more, like the mayor of DC for example? Is there something they all have in common? [Hint: It starts with a 'D']



    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    I think it ironic though that some Chicago lawmakers are calling for the National Guard. How embarrassing to admit you can't control your own city. Isn't Mayor Daley's anti-gun agenda working? Chicago should be a one of the SAFEST and PEACEFUL cities in the country...kind of like New Orleans, right?
    To me, that is the essence of the problem here. The reason the lawmakers want to facilitate the further trampling of rights is that the current level of trampling rights has exacerbated the very problem it purportedly was solving!

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    +1 i live 5 minutes outside of new orleans, more ppl carrying just might do the trick. and getting rid of the dirty nopd officers as well.

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    eye95,

    True.

    And please, no one tell me how 'intelligent' the average American (or voter) is. They aren't. Afterall, lots of VERY average Americans voted for these fool mayors...and of course, even the President.

    So what do you do with such numerous ignorant people who are ARMED -- with a vote that DOES matter?

    To paraphrase King Theoden (Lord of the Rings): "What can men do against such reckless ingorance?"

    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    The average American voter, by definition, has an IQ of 100.

    Whether or not every adult should have the vote, regardless of mental capacity, is not a debate I would want to get into here. But, yes, I believe that Americans have foolishly elected a lot of the officials who ruining our Republic.

    The most practical defense we have against such future foolishness is to continually and rationally advocate for our rights.

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    cloudcroft wrote:
    Ooops...I wasn't being 'rational' just fantasizing (again)...so don't count me amongst the "OC Community" lest I give you alla bad rep!

    -- John D.


    No prob. Actually, I don't think that the military should be doing the job of police officers either. My previous post (with the exception of the first sentence) was comprised entirely of direct quotes from eye95.

    If you read this thread, then you will understand the context of my previous post: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/42857.html

    Apparently it isn't ok to make generalizations about police officers, but it is ok to make generalizations about those in the military.

    Double-standards really suck

    Carry on!

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    hammer

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    Ruger wrote:
    cloudcroft wrote:
    Ooops...I wasn't being 'rational' just fantasizing (again)...so don't count me amongst the "OC Community" lest I give you alla bad rep!

    -- John D.


    No prob. Actually, I don't think that the military should be doing the job of police officers either. My previous post (with the exception of the first sentence) was comprised entirely of direct quotes from eye95.

    If you read this thread, then you will understand the context of my previous post: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/42857.html

    Apparently it isn't ok to make generalizations about police officers, but it is ok to make generalizations about those in the military.

    Double-standards really suck
    I thought you had moved on. Or, had you accepted my support for stating that the National Guard is less able to protect individual rights? That their training does not teach them about warrants, Terry stops, RAS, etc., while the training for LEOs does?

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    Talk of calling in the military has been heard for years now to try and stop the criminals on the south side of Chicago.

    This is not the first time.

    I am going to keep my mouth shut about my feelings on what should be done, but I have a feeling cloudcroft and I may be on the same page.

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    eye95 wrote:
    I thought you had moved on. Or, had you accepted my support for stating that the National Guard is less able to protect individual rights? That their training does not teach them about warrants, Terry stops, RAS, etc., while the training for LEOs does?
    eye95, I actually agree with you on this one. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to use your own words to point out what appears to be a double standard.
    Carry on!

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    cloudcroft wrote:
    If Chicago got rid of 38.6% of its population overnight, it'd be a WHOLE lot better there for everyone else crime-wise. After that, send another 26% packing to improve things further. Finally, mop-up among what's are left and send¬*those losers¬*packing, too (can we deport them ALL to Canada?).
    Your comment reeks of racism which is thinly veiled. It is obvious that you are referring to the demographics of Chicago. To remove people specifically because of their race is abhorrent. It is an evil far greater than the criminals. Governments doing things like that have caused more bloodshed in the last 100 years than all gangsters combined. Instead, why not remove crime by giving people weapons to defend themselves. Legalize drugs and I bet 80% of all crime everywhere in the country goes down since most organized crime exists for and is funded by the illicit drug trade. Instead of targeting innocent people, just arrest all the corrupt politicians and violent criminals.

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    Ruger wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    I thought you had moved on. Or, had you accepted my support for stating that the National Guard is less able to protect individual rights? That their training does not teach them about warrants, Terry stops, RAS, etc., while the training for LEOs does?
    eye95, I actually agree with you on this one. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to use your own words to point out what appears to be a double standard.
    It may "appear" to be a double standard. However, careful consideration clearly shows it is not. First, no insulting generalization about intentional bad acts was made. The superintendent pointed out (and I agreed) that the National Guard doesn't worry about protecting rights when enforcing the law. That is not what they are trained to do. Second, I provided verifiable support for my statements. LEOs are routinely trained in the protection of rights. National Guardsmen are not routinely trained in warrants, Terry stops, Fourth Amendment, RAS, etc.

    I find your comparison in the statement I made and the support I provided to the statement to which I objected and its anecdotal and/or unverifiable "support" to be grossly insulting.

    Whether or not you move on I will. Have a nice day, sir.

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    Ruger wrote:
    I see that you agree with the superintendant's opinion of the military....

    Can he support those remarks?¬* IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.
    You don't want the national guard policing American cities, active duty could do it because we're professionals at our jobs, but not the guard.

    I say that not out of disrespect for the guard, even though I don't respect them at all, I say it because it's a simple fact. The modern active duty soldier eats and breathes counter-insurgency tactics these days. We don't just run around blowing stuff up, we're taught how to engage the populous, get them on our side, and police themselves. Of course Afghans're allowed to own automatic AKs so forming a self policing/militia force there is a lot easier than a gun-control heaven like Chicago.

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    ABNinfantryman wrote:
    Ruger wrote:
    I see that you agree with the superintendant's opinion of the military....

    Can he support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.
    You don't want the national guard policing American cities, active duty could do it because we're professionals at our jobs, but not the guard.

    I say that not out of disrespect for the guard, even though I don't respect them at all, I say it because it's a simple fact. The modern active duty soldier eats and breathes counter-insurgency tactics these days. We don't just run around blowing stuff up, we're taught how to engage the populous, get them on our side, and police themselves. Of course Afghans're allowed to own automatic AKs so forming a self policing/militia force there is a lot easier than a gun-control heaven like Chicago.

    The post that you quote was very much tongue-in-cheek. Go back & read my next post in the thread for context.

    I don't want the national guard OR active duty military policing American cities.

    Carry on!

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    Felid`Maximus,

    Regardless, just answer the question: Would it improve things drastically overnight or not? It would. That's all I was saying.

    As for race, we all represent our race whether we want to or not. Some respresent theirs presistently and disproportionally poorly. I don't want people whobehave badly -- individually or collectively -- in my neighborhood or even my country. If you disagree, you are cordially invited toleave withthem. That way, YOU can live in their future neighborhood/country (which they will trash out also).

    Enough said to you...

    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    cloudcroft wrote:
    Felid`Maximus,

    Regardless, just answer the question: Would it improve things drastically overnight or not? It would. That's all I was saying.

    -- John D.
    No, it wouldn't. There, of course, would be pockets of improvement. However, the unrest that would result would far outweigh any coincidental improvement. For one thing, I personally would stand along-side people who thought their rights were just horrifically and unjustifiably trampled.

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