Culver To Sign Weapons Cary Permit Measure

Straight_Shooter · Apr 29, 2010

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No one yet has provided a good explanation as to how “participation in any firearms shooting competition” can be acceptable evidence that you have completed and NRA or DPS handgun course, but that is what the law infers . . .

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I don't understand it either but I'm not going to complain about it. Are you complaining about it?

The next year or so will prove to be very interesting on several fronts . . . .

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No doubt.

However you want to slice it we need constitutional carry. That is where we need to go instead of dwelling on the specifics of this bill.

"I don't understand it either but I'm not going to complain about it. Are you complaining about it?"

No . . . quite the contrary . . . I see it as an inadvertent "loophole," which I am willing to try to exploit to the fullest. I plan on submitting a certificate of "participation in any firearms shooting competition" and seeing where it gets me. I'll be happy to report how that turns out.

"However you want to slice it we need constitutional carry."

As in the past, even now I maintain the same . . . and have never veered from that course.

"That is where we need to go instead of dwelling on the specifics of this bill."

I would respectfully dissagree, as the flaws in this bill are now the flaws in the law . . . this is no different than the position taken by all when we were "may issue" . . . we point out the flaws in the law to pursuade lawmakers and others to pursue change. I know you say this to try and deflect attention away from NRA/Iowa Carry, which is noble, but I can't change the fact that they are the ones that agreed to this. I believe you will now see a "split" within the ranks of that group, because there will be many who will say "what we have now is good enough," and others who will say "we need to make the law better by removing some of the flaws" (or move to "constitutional carry" as you have).This will cause a dilution of the pressure to change the law that we had before this . . . this is one of the fallicies of "changing the law gradually" . . . you lose activitists as you go.

amaixner · Apr 29, 2010

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In the news, the bill now has officially been signed:
http://gazetteonline.com/local-news...bill-making-iowa-shall-issue-gun-permit-state

IA_farmboy · Apr 29, 2010

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I would respectfully dissagree, as the flaws in this bill are now the flaws in the law . . . this is no different than the position taken by all when we were "may issue" . . . we point out the flaws in the law to pursuade lawmakers and others to pursue change. I know you say this to try and deflect attention away from NRA/Iowa Carry, which is noble, but I can't change the fact that they are the ones that agreed to this.

No deflection intended. I would rather not cry over spilled milk and dwell on the past. I prefer to look to the future and make plans to improve the law. The only "flaw" in this law I care about is that it requires a permit to carry a tool of self defense. No need to discuss any detail beyond that, IMHO of course.

I believe you will now see a "split" within the ranks of that group, because there will be many who will say "what we have now is good enough," and others who will say "we need to make the law better by removing some of the flaws" (or move to "constitutional carry" as you have). This will cause a dilution of the pressure to change the law that we had before this . . . this is one of the fallicies of "changing the law gradually" . . . you lose activitists as you go.

It is probably true that we will lose some activism and activists because of this compromise law. I don't believe we will lose enough to kill constitutional carry in the near future. We saw quite the support for constitutional carry in the legislature and it has become a topic of discussion in the governor primary race. If we can keep it a topic through the election then we might just see constitutional carry happen next year.

On some level I share your fear of the "good enough" mentality killing any momentum in constitutional carry but this is gaining momentum throughout the nation. People will see this in the national news for a while thanks to Arizona. Other states are picking up on this too. Arizona, Alaska, and Vermont were all mentioned in the debates I heard on the House floor. History shows that constitutional carry "works" and it is going to be hard for anyone to debate that Iowa is somehow "different".

NewZealandAmerican · Apr 30, 2010

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Congratulations to my brothers and sisters in LIBERTY in the Republic of Iowa! One more step closer to being able to carry without permission!:celebrate:monkey

cfrench · Apr 30, 2010

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New to the site here. Have a question, now I am in Dallas County and the last re qualification I did in Jan. I got grandfathered in so I would no longer have to qualify. Just go down to the sheriffs office and pay my money. Does this mean that I am no longer grandfathered in? Also, my father has his cc and has been grandfathered in for over 10 years, what does this mean for him?

Regards

Straight_Shooter · Apr 30, 2010

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cfrench wrote:

New to the site here. Have a question, now I am in Dallas County and the last re qualification I did in Jan. I got grandfathered in so I would no longer have to qualify. Just go down to the sheriffs office and pay my money. Does this mean that I am no longer grandfathered in? Also, my father has his cc and has been grandfathered in for over 10 years, what does this mean for him?

Regards

Cfrench -

Yup!! The NRA and Iowa Carry porked guys like you and me. . . I have had a permit since 1994 and never had to get the nanny state training except the original . . .because I hadcahunas enough to MOVE OUT OF ANANTI-GUN COUNTY.

Now every five years, you get to open up your wallet and pay the NRA to "certify" you to exercise your "second amendment rights" as they keep telling us.

Anyway, welcome . . .

SS

Max G · May 2, 2010

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Without gloating too much and rubbing it in to those who opposed Shall Issue in Iowa, I hereby thank the Governor for signing the Shall Issue Bill into Law.

Now SS, once you cool off, this would be an opportunity for you to reassess your approach, following your utter and complete failure to defeat the NRA and Iowa Carry.

I’ll help you with your assessment.

1. Your tactics are Crude, Rude, and the Neanderthal approach doesn’t work when passing Legislation when you and your small group have little or no power and money on your side.

2. Your strategy to move Iowa from May Issue to No Permit Required utterly failed.

3. Your passion is strong, but you need the wisdom to direct that energy in a positive way.

In summary, your Tactics, Strategy, and Inexperience has gotten you nowhere.

So what next?

I challenge you to adopt Tactics and develop a Strategy which does not rely on tearing down other gun groups, personally attacking your opposition, and threatening to 'Primary' those who disagree with you.

One strategy suggestion, and helpful hint for you:

First, push for a State Constitutional Amendment to protect the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. There are many reasons to go this direction first, but I’ll discuss that later, if you are civil.

Second, after securing a State Constitutional protection for the RTKBA, then push for the No Permit Required Approach.

Third, adopt tactics which are positive, that is, you must educate the opposition as to why the RTKBA is needed and why No Permit Required is the best approach. Then you need to build a base of supporters, and align them in the direction needed to achieve success. Try using logic and reason, and not a hammer.

Oh, and good luck.

Straight_Shooter · May 3, 2010

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Max G wrote:

Without gloating too much and rubbing it in to those who opposed Shall Issue in Iowa, I hereby thank the Governor for signing the Shall Issue Bill into Law.

Now SS, once you cool off, this would be an opportunity for you to reassess your approach, following your utter and complete failure to defeat the NRA and Iowa Carry.

I’ll help you with your assessment.

1. Your tactics are Crude, Rude, and the Neanderthal approach doesn’t work when passing Legislation when you and your small group have little or no power and money on your side.

2. Your strategy to move Iowa from May Issue to No Permit Required utterly failed.

3. Your passion is strong, but you need the wisdom to direct that energy in a positive way.

In summary, your Tactics, Strategy, and Inexperience has gotten you nowhere.

So what next?

I challenge you to adopt Tactics and develop a Strategy which does not rely on tearing down other gun groups, personally attacking your opposition, and threatening to 'Primary' those who disagree with you.

One strategy suggestion, and helpful hint for you:

First, push for a State Constitutional Amendment to protect the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. There are many reasons to go this direction first, but I’ll discuss that later, if you are civil.

Second, after securing a State Constitutional protection for the RTKBA, then push for the No Permit Required Approach.

Third, adopt tactics which are positive, that is, you must educate the opposition as to why the RTKBA is needed and why No Permit Required is the best approach. Then you need to build a base of supporters, and align them in the direction needed to achieve success. Try using logic and reason, and not a hammer.

Oh, and good luck.

They say that someone who bests a fool has proven nothing, but I guess I just can't help but play with the mice in the maze . . .

"Without gloating too much and rubbing it in to those who opposed Shall Issue in Iowa . . "

Yes Maxie, you think you are gloating, but you are too thick to realize you have no right to. You don't understand anything and this year's legislative session has taught you nothing at all. Neither I, nor IGO as far as I know, EVER opposed shall issue in Iowa . . . never . . . whatIopposed was the NRA / Iowa Carry making deals with the anti-gunDemocrats topass shall issue at any cost . . .up to the point of willingness to accept anything fromthe elimination of state preemption to inclusion of anti-gun federal law into Iowa Code. As a result, we now have "shall issue" with some of those exact unconstitutional provisions, plus state mandated training requirements that we didn't have before. For 99% of Iowans who get CCW permits, your “magnanimous” law actually set us back in terms of relative freedom, because we now have to take this ridiculous training, where we didn't before.[/b] So that is what your screwed up cadre of weenies that would never risk being "Crude, Rude, and Neanderthal in theirapproach when passing Legislation" accomplished.In other words, you ignorant, pompous arroganttypes at IC and the NRAscrewedthe majority of CCW permit holders in the state . . . so feel free to stop gloating and smell the coffee.

"Your strategy to move Iowa from May Issue to No Permit Required utterly failed."

Well nob-noggin,If that is true, thenevery year for the past five or six years, Iowa Carry has tried to pass legislation has"utterly failed" as well . . . so exactly whywas that ok for Iowa Carry, but not for IGO?I know that you are far too dense to realize that it was IGO that caused the NRA to take interest in Iowa in the first place, because IC was getting nowhere, and the IGO no compromise approachwaswhatFINALLY forced the anti-gunners to stop hiding behind the veil of sellout compromise bills that IC kept serving up and vote for a real second amendment bill for a change. Your complete lack of political acumen is pretty clear when you call a 5 vote loss in the HR and a 6 vote loss in the Senate an "utter failure." When you add to that that it is the very failure of the “pro-second amendment” NRA and Iowa Carry to support the Constitutional carry bill, with more than just a “declares for,” in the first place that caused Iowan’s to lose this worthy fight!

" . . . . you need the wisdom to direct that energy in a positive way."

Trust me Maxie . . . the day I look to you for "wisdom" . . . I'll first move to a state whereREAL MEN live instead ofthe likes ofyou.For now, though, unlike you, I’ll stick to usingthe truth if that is ok with you.

"In summary, your Tactics, Strategy, and Inexperience has gotten you nowhere."

a) The elections are in November, Mr. “political genius”. .Is itok with you if wewait until then to pay homage to you?. .But of course all the anti-gun Democrats, thanksto you and Iowa Carry / NRA, will be saying"but I voted for the Iowa Carry sellout bill that makes me pro-gun." So if anything has “gotten us nowhere,” it is the compromisers like you at IC and the NRA that refuse to take a principled stand for the second amendment. I have no doubt that you will be fawning and slobberingall over some anti-gun Democrat that voted for yourwatered down, compromise bill . . .the thought of you doing thatmakes menauseous!!

b) Your silly law is already being undermined by the Sheriff's, who are saying that there are plenty of ways to deny a permit left in the law . . . just passing the law doesn't mean everything is all roses . . . so when you decide to stop patting yourself on the back, you might want to wake up to reality.

"I challenge you to adopt Tactics and develop a Strategy which does not rely on . . threatening to 'Primary' those who disagree with you."

Maxie, of all the ignorant things I have ever seen you write, this is about the worst . . . and it shows just how unbelievably ignorant of the American political system you really are. But just for the record, the "threats of primaries" is EXACTLY what caused the "Republican's" in the legislature to work for a better bill than the piece of trash you and the NRA brought to the table in the beginning. Even Roger Burdett of Iowa Carry told the IGO representatives that if it hadn't been for IGO, their bill would have been much, much worse. I also note that it is lost on you that the entire anti-gun Democratic caucus voted against the Real Rightto Carry bill, which was the ONLY bill that recognized the second amendment right in Iowa. I am certain that won’t stop you from touting their “pro-second amendment” bonafides.

Just in case all this isn't clear Maxie, I will spell it out for you: I, and many other principled men in this state, have no desire to pass compromiselegislation like yours . . . so you can takeyour "sell-out at all costs to get what you want" approach to legislation . . . and put it right where the sun don't shine.

"So what next?"

Put your crayons away Maxie . . . I, and IGO I am certain, aren't going anywhere just yet, and I can pretty much guarantee we'll be back again next year stronger than ever . . . so we won’t be needing your spineless begging approach to politics just yet.

In summary, Maxie, here is a quote from Samual Adams that I am sure he made just for people like you:

"If ye love . . . the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." — Samuel Adams

SS

Max G · May 4, 2010

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It’s no surprise that SS responds with another rant.

While it’s true that the pending elections influenced many votes on the Shall Issue Law, only in the delusional mind of SS, does he have any power to ‘primary’ the State Representatives he doesn’t like.

SS posting on a website is his idea of ‘taking action’, and exerting ‘power’.

IGO isn’t going anywhere? You will be back again? What, sleeping in the handicapped section of the House balcony again? That will really influence them! Oh, maybe you will have more posts on a blog?

SS, there is life outside of cyberspace. You might check it out sometime.

Max G · May 4, 2010

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Thanks to the new Shall Issue Law in Iowa, as of 1/1/11:

- You will no longer have to beg your Sheriff for a Permit to Carry Weapons.

- You will have a 5-year Permit instead of a 1-year Permit.

- No longer will BS restrictions be allowed on your Permit.

- No longer will your Sheriff determine what training is required and he will not be able to establish nearly impossible shooting requirements in order to get a Permit.

- ALL non-residents of Iowa with Out-of-State Permits to Carry will be able to legally carry a firearm when they visit or pass-through Iowa.

- Even those who attacked the Iowa Shall Issue Bill will reap the benefits of this Law. None so far, have come forward to say they will not be obtaining an Iowa Permit to Carry in the future!

Is it a perfect Law? No. Is it a Big Step in the right direction? Yes!

IA_farmboy · May 4, 2010

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Max G wrote:

Thanks to the new Shall Issue Law in Iowa, as of 1/1/11:
- You will no longer have to beg your Sheriff for a Permit to Carry Weapons.

You assume people had to beg before. A great number of sheriffs issued permits freely. It was a few rotten apples that ruined it for many, rotten apples that were voted into office.

- You will have a 5-year Permit instead of a 1-year Permit.

That's good, no doubt. Something that could have only been changed through legislation.

- No longer will BS restrictions be allowed on your Permit

This was also sheriff dependent.

- No longer will your Sheriff determine what training is required and he will not be able to establish nearly impossible shooting requirements in order to get a Permit.

This is sheriff dependent. Not only are sheriffs now restricted from placing onerous training requirements on applicants but they are also restricted from issuing without training. I'm not so sure this is a good thing.

- ALL non-residents of Iowa with Out-of-State Permits to Carry will be able to legally carry a firearm when they visit or pass-through Iowa.

My brother in law will be pleased. This is another issue that required a change in law.

- Even those who attacked the Iowa Shall Issue Bill will reap the benefits of this Law. None so far, have come forward to say they will not be obtaining an Iowa Permit to Carry in the future!

Some will benefit, some will not. The good sheriffs of this state are now required to show applicants have had training before issuing permits where they did not have to before.

I don't see how not coming forward to claim one will not obtain a permit to carry proves anything. Could you explain?

Is it a perfect Law? No. Is it a Big Step in the right direction? Yes!

I'm not so sure it was a step in the right direction. There were two solutions to sheriffs that did not issue permits, change the law or change the sheriff. I suppose there is a third option, change the sheriff's mind, but changing the sheriff is easier and more effective.

This law gave us "shall issue" but at the cost of a training requirement every five years. Without that training requirement this law would have been a step forward on every count. (There might have been another step backward somewhere but I haven't seen it yet.) Now that we have a training requirement we have to fight to get it removed if we are to have our right to self defense restored. Not only do we have to fight against the very law we created but we must now fight the firearm training lobby that will now be funded with the very dollars we give them for our permits.

This law very likely just made constitutional carry that much harder to obtain. If we don't get constitutional carry in the next five years, before all the training dollars start to flow into the pockets of the trainers, we might not get it for decades.

mrjam2jab · May 5, 2010

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IA_farmboy wrote:

Max G wrote:

- ALL non-residents of Iowa with Out-of-State Permits to Carry will be able to legally carry a firearm when they visit or pass-through Iowa.

Click to expand...

My brother in law will be pleased. This is another issue that required a change in law.

As will I, when we visit the Mrs' aunt and grandmother down in Leon. One drawback I see due to the new law is that they will not issue a non-resident permit to me. I was actually looking forward to getting it for the possible reciprocity with KS that I heard was already being worked on.

amaixner · May 5, 2010

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mrjam2jab wrote:

As will I, when we visit the Mrs' aunt and grandmother down in Leon. One drawback I see due to the new law is that they will not issue a non-resident permit to me. I was actually looking forward to getting it for the possible reciprocity with KS that I heard was already being worked on.

Unfortunately, it was almost impossible to obtain a Iowa nonresident permit. There were a few issued to people if they could prove an overwhelming business need, or a verifiable threat against their life -- but many of those even were denied from what I have heard.

You can get these permits that are honored in Kansas, with Florida probably being the easiest:
Alaska Arizona Arkansas Colorado Florida Hawaii Kentucky Louisiana Michigan Minnesota Missouri Nebraska Nevada New Jersey New Mexico North Carolina Ohio Oklahoma South Carolina Tennessee Texas West Virginia

source http://handgunlaw.us/states/kansas.pdf

mrjam2jab · May 5, 2010

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amaixner wrote:

mrjam2jab wrote:

As will I, when we visit the Mrs' aunt and grandmother down in Leon. One drawback I see due to the new law is that they will not issue a non-resident permit to me. I was actually looking forward to getting it for the possible reciprocity with KS that I heard was already being worked on.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it was almost impossible to obtain a Iowa nonresident permit. There were a few issued to people if they could prove an overwhelming business need, or a verifiable threat against their life -- but many of those even were denied from what I have heard.

You can get these permits that are honored in Kansas, with Florida probably being the easiest:
Alaska Arizona Arkansas Colorado Florida Hawaii Kentucky Louisiana Michigan Minnesota Missouri Nebraska Nevada New Jersey New Mexico North Carolina Ohio Oklahoma South Carolina Tennessee Texas West Virginia

source http://handgunlaw.us/states/kansas.pdf

Yeah, I knew the history...I did get IA DPS to send me an app packet a few months back...but the "Letter of Need" kind of held me up. Then I learned about the push for Shall Issue, and figured once that passed I'd be golden...or so i thought.

Of the states you listed only AZ, FL, MN, NV, and TX issue to non-residents. HI and NJ have to option but residents can't even obtain one.

IA would have been cheaper than FL....but i do have the FL app already filled out...

Straight_Shooter · May 5, 2010

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Max G wrote:

It’s no surprise that SS responds with another rant.

Maxie, there are two things you can be absolutely sure of:

1) The sun will rise tomorrow, and

2)It pleases meno end knowing thatwhat I writereallly getsunder your skin. . .

Thanks for that,

SS

Max G · May 6, 2010

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Lotsa rationalizing from SS, but show me where you and/or the IGO supported Shall Issue in Iowa.

All you did for the last several months was attack the NRA and Iowa Carry and Shall Issue, which is now the Law in Iowa.

Packer fan · May 6, 2010

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luv_jeeps wrote:

Congratulations Iowa!!!!!!!!

If he does is fact sign the bill, I look forward to having a reciprocity agreement at some point.

+1

I too am looking forward to reciprocity except for Arkansas. If this happens I will avoid Ill all together while travailing to Wisconsin. It may take me a little longer to get where I am going but it's the scenic rout.:celebrate:celebrate

Max G · May 6, 2010

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Packer fan wrote:

luv_jeeps wrote:

Congratulations Iowa!!!!!!!!

If he does is fact sign the bill, I look forward to having a reciprocity agreement at some point.

Click to expand...

+1

I too am looking forward to reciprocity except for Arkansas. If this happens I will avoid Ill all together while travailing to Wisconsin. It may take me a little longer to get where I am going but it's the scenic rout.:celebrate:celebrate

Culver signed the Bill last week!

It's a done deal.

As of 1/1/11, Iowa will recognize any out-of-State weapons permit if you are NOT a resident of Iowa.

Enjoy the Iowa scenery on the way to Cheeseland!

Straight_Shooter · May 6, 2010

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Max G wrote:

All you did for the last several months was attack the NRA and Iowa Carry and Shall Issue, which is now the Law in Iowa.

Well Maxie, as I know that you know, it is pretty easy to Prove that you are a liar . . . from my post of Monday, Nov 30[suP]th[/suP], 2009 . . . and I quote:

“As far as me having a "vendetta" against the NRA and IC, I don't. I DO have a vendetta against their compromising legislation, that will affect me if it passes. I have stated many times herethat I would find IC's "shall issue" desire to be wholly acceptable, AS LONG AS I DIDN'T HAVE TO SACRIFICE OTHER FREEDOMS TO GET IT. That is the whole issue here, and one that NONE of you . . . David, Sean, Steve, Tomor yourself will address . . . you guys KNOW that this has been the approach with IC and their "relationship" with Baudler over the years. In fact, I have personally seen posts on your forum where your members would make comments on Baudler's legislation like "I wish he wouldn't put that stuff in there." You guys KNOW it is in there, and you refuse to acknowledge it here. And I have no doubt that those of you who know this history with Baudler, know full well that what I had previously posted to be in the NRA bill is really in there.”

Q.E.D.

SS

IA_farmboy · May 6, 2010

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As will I, when we visit the Mrs' aunt and grandmother down in Leon. One drawback I see due to the new law is that they will not issue a non-resident permit to me. I was actually looking forward to getting it for the possible reciprocity with KS that I heard was already being worked on.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it was almost impossible to obtain a Iowa nonresident permit. There were a few issued to people if they could prove an overwhelming business need, or a verifiable threat against their life -- but many of those even were denied from what I have heard.

You can get these permits that are honored in Kansas, with Florida probably being the easiest:
Alaska Arizona Arkansas Colorado Florida Hawaii Kentucky Louisiana Michigan Minnesota Missouri Nebraska Nevada New Jersey New Mexico North Carolina Ohio Oklahoma South Carolina Tennessee Texas West Virginia

Of those states the following will only issue to residents:
Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Hawaii, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia

Non-resident may issue states from that list:
New Jersey (and good luck with that one)

That leaves:
Arizona, Florida, Minnesota, Nevada, Texas

Of those that have shall issue to non-residents I am only aware of Florida having a process that allows the permit application to be submitted from out of state. Texas did revise it's process recently so there may now, or soon, be a way to get that state's permit by mail. Also, of those states none are really on the way from Pennsylvania to Kansas. Minnesota is at least in between the two states but not really on a direct path.

I'd just go with Florida, that's what I did.

Culver To Sign Weapons Cary Permit Measure

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