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Thread: +1 for Pima PD

  1. #1
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    I was passing through Pima PD's revenue zone on Highway 70 last night and some truck blew by me and not long later a white SUV started to blow by me and then stopped hard and matched my speed in my blind spot. I was like WTF is this guy's problem?

    He slowed way down and matched my speed ten carlengths or so back (I was going the speed limit the whole time). About the time I was getting back into farmland the red and blue lights in the SUV came on. My reaction: ?????

    So the guy comes up, tells me it's for a license plate light out. I told him I had a pistol, pointed to it, asked him what he wanted to do. He had me step out and hang by his car while he ran my license. We sat and talked about guns, law enforcement, cars, all that while waiting for the all clear on my ID. He even thanked me for telling him I had the gun and told me he wishes he had a 1911.

    All clear, I told him I had a spare bulb and he kept his lights on and hung around to make sure I had enough light to change the bulb, left when he saw I had a flashlight.

    Never got in my car, touched my gun, or asked me why I had one. Didn't search me. He was very friendly and personable. A true public servant.

    If this were New Mexico they would have had me put my hands on their hood, barked orders at me, pat me down, took the gun, ran the serial, and made a big production of it, and then left without so much as smiling and leave my gun half assembled in my trunk. Thanking you for telling them? Nope. They feel like you owe it to them (legally you don't).

    After all NM DPS is legally obligated to not confiscate the guns, but they aren't happy about it and like to make life a pain and treat you like a criminal. I've had several of those bastards tell me "We don't like it when people have guns." Honestly if that's their attitude, I don't like them having guns either.

    Nice to see Arizona LEOs treat you right and respect your rights. I don't really like the 30 MPH speed limit in the town, but I'm much happier to respect that knowing they respect my right to keep and bear.

  2. #2
    Newbie crisisweasel's Avatar
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    DustoneGT wrote
    So the guy comes up, tells me it's for a license plate light out. I told him I had a pistol, pointed to it, asked him what he wanted to do. He had me step out and hang by his car while he ran my license. We sat and talked about guns, law enforcement, cars, all that while waiting for the all clear on my ID. He even thanked me for telling him I had the gun and told me he wishes he had a 1911.

    Never got in my car, touched my gun, or asked me why I had one. Didn't search me. He was very friendly and personable. A true public servant.

    If this were New Mexico they would have had me put my hands on their hood, barked orders at me, pat me down, took the gun, ran the serial, and made a big production of it, and then left without so much as smiling and leave my gun half assembled in my trunk. Thanking you for telling them? Nope. They feel like you owe it to them (legally you don't).

    Nice to see Arizona LEOs treat you right and respect your rights. I don't really like the 30 MPH speed limit in the town, but I'm much happier to respect that knowing they respect my right to keep and bear.
    This matches my experience. I choose to declare that I have a pistol, (but I respect the privacy rights of those who don't. I do it so there are no misunderstandings should the gun be visible as I reach around the cab of my truck getting paperwork and the like)

    In my case, I've never been asked to step outside the car. The two or three times this has happened, the police officer didn't seem to care too much. "Oh, OK." is pretty much their reaction.

    In none of those cases did I receive a citation either. A warning outside of Springerville on my way to Soccoro, a warning about improper U-Turn (on La Cholla near the mall, where before the road was re-configured, U-Turns were allowed), and one time because my truck matched the description of someone they were looking for.

    It is always good to hear stories like yours. I suppose people sometimes consider Arizona a redneck state of sorts, but my experiences back in the Garden State with police were completely negative. Here, they've been courteous and reasonable. It almost seems like, given stereotypes, the situation ought to be the reverse.

  3. #3
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    I have found that my encounters with LEO's in "Redneck" states have been much more courteous that those in "Civilized" states.

    Hm...

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    If he really respected your rights, he wouldn't have subjected you to a fishing expeditionby running your license and wasting your time.

    The proof is in the alternatives. All he had to do was tell youa license plate bulb was burned out and send you on your way...and that only if it was the only bulb.If you hada second bulb that was working, he hardly needed to stop you at all.

    The"bulb out" excuse is just a technically legal,um legalized, excuse for seizing a citizen on the off chance that a fishing expedition might turn up something else.

    I seriously question this tactic by police, and the approval given it by the courts.If only what? 10% of the population? are actually criminals, that means the police are practically guaranteed to be harassing a law-abiding citizen 90% of the time. Or, whatever the percentages are.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  5. #5
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    Citizen wrote:
    The"bulb out" excuse is just a technically legal,um legalized, excuse for seizing a citizen on the off chance that a fishing expedition might turn up something else.

    Very very true, a few years ago, i was driving in Apache Junction late at night and was pulled over for a "burnt out bulb" by AJPD, he checked my lisence insurance and registration and sent me on my way, got home and both bulbs were glowing bright... i can only assume i got pulled over for being young, out at night in a 2-door sportscar

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I can't wait.

    The last time I got pulled over was on my bike, and it was the good ol' boys routine.

    "Your tail light is out (smash). I can't let you drive it like that, you'll have to walk from here."

    The rest just plain tried to run me down, so count that as the friendly one.

    Thank God for sportbikes!
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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  7. #7
    Regular Member Snakemathis's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    If he really respected your rights, he wouldn't have subjected you to a fishing expeditionby running your license and wasting your time.

    The proof is in the alternatives. All he had to do was tell youa license plate bulb was burned out and send you on your way...and that only if it was the only bulb.If you hada second bulb that was working, he hardly needed to stop you at all.

    The"bulb out" excuse is just a technically legal,um legalized, excuse for seizing a citizen on the off chance that a fishing expedition might turn up something else.

    I seriously question this tactic by police, and the approval given it by the courts.If only what? 10% of the population? are actually criminals, that means the police are practically guaranteed to be harassing a law-abiding citizen 90% of the time. Or, whatever the percentages are.
    I understand what your saying but I have to respectfully disagree. A lot of the "seizures" LE make are on basic stops like that, which is a good thing. I know a lot of people feel their rights are being violated, but LE arrest a lot of people with warrants that way. Let me pose you with this question, would you rather the LEO not check your ID at all, do the same for everyone else, and let someone who just raped a 12 year old get away because he didn't run the guys license? What if the 12 year old was your daughter? Changes things huh?
    "Know firearms, know safety. No firearms, no safety"
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    Snakemathis wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    If he really respected your rights, he wouldn't have...
    I understand what your saying but...
    By that logic, police should just set up roadblocks to filter everybody--no one who drives, or depending on the street, walks, would get away. Why not the grocery store, randomly, of course?

    That is really all the police are doing with with these "broken light" stops--just filtering the population, running them through a seive as it were to strain out the bad ones.

    Case law is clear, the success of the search is never, ever justification forit is execution. In similar vein, police could catch many more (be successful) with routine crime prevention roadblocks that filtered every driver, or pedestrian.

    The Bill of Rights recognizes that some bad guys are going to get away.

    No, I don't buy the court's explanation anymore that government has a compelling interest here, or that the additional instrusion of sitting by the roadside for 10-20 minutes waitingfor the"all clear"isminimal. I'veread plenty of other batty, government-expanding, contorted court opinions.No reason I should accept thislegal construct just based on the courts' say-so with their limited explanation and analysis.

    Somehow mankind made it through all thesemillenia without computerized checks to sift out bad guys at every opportunity.

    If my daughter was raped, I would want the bad guy caught. But, I have sense enough to know that the price might be too high forsociety--of which I am a member. While the rest of society are not my family, they are still human beings. And I won't wish bad things on other people just for some temporary satisfaction for myself. For another to claim otherwise is to imply that I am so self-centered that I cannot see the effects on others.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Snakemathis's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Snakemathis wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    If he really respected your rights, he wouldn't have...
    I understand what your saying but...
    By that logic, police should just set up roadblocks to filter everybody...
    I can understand that. I guess we just have completely separate views on the subject. I know that if my daughter is raped and the guy is getting away with it, I want everything possible done. If that means roadblocks, so be it. I would easily put my daughter above the simple inconvenience of having to sit at a traffic stop for 3 more minutes while a warrants check is done. But that is just me, and in no way will I fault you for your opinion, nor anyone else. But for me, IMHO, a simple license check is hardly an invasion of my rights.
    "Know firearms, know safety. No firearms, no safety"
    "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."

  10. #10
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    Snakemathis wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Snakemathis wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    If he really respected your rights, he wouldn't have...
    I understand what your saying but...
    By that logic, police should just set up roadblocks to filter everybody...
    I can understand that. I guess we just have completely separate views on the subject. I know that if my daughter is raped and the guy is getting away with it, I want everything possible done. If that means roadblocks, so be it. I would easily put my daughter above the simple inconvenience of having to sit at a traffic stop for 3 more minutes while a warrants check is done. But that is just me, and in no way will I fault you for your opinion, nor anyone else. But for me, IMHO, a simple license check is hardly an invasion of my rights.
    Well, seeing that in the U.S. 28 women are raped every hour...that would mean a lot of traffic stops and roadblocks. Just sayin'

  11. #11
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    Snakemathis wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Snakemathis wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    If he really respected your rights, he wouldn't have...
    I understand what your saying but...
    By that logic, police should just set up roadblocks to filter everybody...
    I can understand that. I guess we just have completely separate views on the subject. I know that if my daughter is raped and the guy is getting away with it, I want everything possible done. If that means roadblocks, so be it. I would easily put my daughter above the simple inconvenience of having to sit at a traffic stop for 3 more minutes while a warrants check is done. But that is just me, and in no way will I fault you for your opinion, nor anyone else. But for me, IMHO, a simple license check is hardly an invasion of my rights.
    I completely understand.

    Realize that by authorizing/legitimizing the license check you are authorizing it beyond the one incident of your daughter's rape. You are authorizing across the land for every such minor stop.

    And, realize what goes along with that authorization. More innocent people exposed to more rogue cops--like that cop who got real nasty with that Darrow kid. More routine requests to search vehicles. More young adults with a conviction for minor drug possession just because they forgot to hide their weed, or didn't know they could refuse a consent search.More people badgered by cops who encounter a polite invocation of the 5th Amendment in response to police questions. More...

    All those doors open when we legitimize license checks for even burned out light bulbs.

    Just to give some perspective, there isalready warrant exception doctrine that couldbe applied: the cop could be required to first havereasonable suspicion or probable cause the person is an unlicensed driver, has a warrant, etc., before demanding thedriver's license.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
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    If my 12 year old child is raped, no I don't want them to randomly stop anyone and start checking their id's, asking them for alibis and taking DNA swabs. For one thing, that is a complete waste of their resources going after needles in a haystack. What I would like them to do is check out suspects who may match the description or give any other reason that they could be involved in the crime other than just living in the same state.

    The reason for this is because I don't want that excuse used so that I can get investigated for every other crime for no other reason than because I live in the same state where it happened. One of the biggest reasons as to why there needs to be some safeguards is because of the potential for abuse.

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