View Poll Results: Do you support this bill becoming law?

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    17 89.47%
  • No

    2 10.53%
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 59

Thread: MI HB 6048 of 2010

  1. #1
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    I have started a new thread for this topic.

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2010-HB-6048
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  2. #2
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    Regarding HB 6048 of 2010, I have sent the following message to the Bill's Primary Sponsor.

    Joel -

    Can you elaborate on the need for this bill and the elimination of County Gun Boards to be replaced by the Secretary Of State?

    I look forward to your prompt response.

    Sincerely,

    PDinDetroit
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  3. #3
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    I received the following response this AM:

    PDinDetroit,

    There are multiple reasons the change is needed. They include:

    1. Long wait times for permit approval, sometimes exceeding six months.

    2. Inconsistent interpretation and application of the law.

    3. Local requirements forcing applicants to attend county gun board meetings during regular business owners, requiring them to take time off of work. This is a particular hardship for commuters who do not work in the county in which they live.

    4. Administrative burden on county clerks offices.

    In short, the administration of the state's CCW process at the county level across 83 counties has been a mess and continues to get worse as applications increase. Creating a uniform process and centralizing it through the Secretary of State would benefit both applicants and county staff.

    Sincerely,

    Joel Sheltrown
    State Representative
    103rd House District
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  4. #4
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    My response to his email:

    Joel -

    Good morning. Thank you for the prompt response, one of the quickest I have ever had.

    Based upon the reasoning below, I fully support your efforts and this bill. I have a CPL (not a CCW anymore) and it took approximately 6 weeks from Application Submitted to CPL being issued and mailed. From what I have gathered, I am one of the lucky ones who have not had any issue with this process. I agree that due to the volume of CPL Applications, a different body should undertake support for this process. I have often wondered why we would keep these functions with local gun boards in the first place. Local Control is good when it makes sense, in this case it does not and abuses have occurred.

    I would hope that the following would be addressed by this effort:

    1. Appropriate Firearms and MI/Federal Firearms Law Training would occur for SOS Employees. Since the Local Gun Boards will be abandoned, there any many functions that the SOS will undertake support for if it becomes law. I do not think I saw training requirements in the bill, which is appropriate given the newly-added functions. This is highly important as we have Police Officers, Prosecutors, etc here in MI who do not know the MI Firearms Laws and cause issues for Lawful Pistol Carriers (especially those who choose to Open Carry).

    2. Have the CPL Physical License either be part of the MI Driver's License or equivalent form of identification. The CPL License I have today looks like it was made by a 3rd Grader on his basement computer and does not fit well inside a wallet.

    I would ask that you consider the following as well for future bills:

    A. The Pistol Purchase Permits undergo some of the same issues you have identified for CPL (especially 2-4, with 4 being for local police offices). I know of situations where the local Police Department would deny a Pistol Purchase Permit, but yet the person was able to obtain a CPL without any difficulty whatsoever. I ask that the Pistol Purchase Permits be eliminated altogether or, at bare minimum, be moved to the SOS as well. I believe it is against the Michigan Constitution (specifically Article I, Section 6) to require a person to obtain Permission to exercise a Right. I believe it only a matter of time before this law is challenged, which costs the taxpayers time and resources, as I do not believe it would stand up to MI Constitutional Authority.

    Thank you again for your efforts!

    Sincerely,

    PDinDetroit
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  5. #5
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    Joel's Response to my email:

    PDinDetroit,

    Training would be the responsibility of the Secretary of State. We don't typically write administrative training into law.

    It is my understanding that Secretary Land supports putting a CPL endorsement on the drivers' license or state ID.

    I am working at eliminating handgun registration. Rep. Opsommer and I had legislation signed into law last session that eliminated the pistol safety inspection requirement. Rep. Meltzer and I have legislation that will be brought up shortly to eliminate the requirement to obtain a purchase permit with every new handgun purchase. Outright elimination of purchase permits and handgun registration will need to wait until there is a new governor or a favorable court decision.

    Joel
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  6. #6
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    My response to his response:

    Joel -

    Excellent sir! Please let me know how I can assist, I will make myself available if possible. I do tend to get busy with work (Chief IT Architect for a major computer firm), but this is an issue near and dear to my heart.

    - PDinDetroit
    I think I am having too much fun with this... :shock:
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  7. #7
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Roseville, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    932

    Post imported post

    Sir, your ideas intrigue me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    You know, on the plus side, at least you wont have to disarm and be cavity searched just soyou can go to the clerks office. :?

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    Being out of town and Michigan my home state... I just could Never wrap my head around the whole County Gun Boards review. I just can't imagine appearing in front of a panel of individuals to divulge my needs and wants. Ew the whole situation creeps me out. Back in Michigan; my friends and I used to dream of getting CCWs when we turned 21.. That was back in High School before I realized my local Sheriff was probably going to tell me to Get Lost. Didn't own a business. Don't have money. Not a target for criminals. Haven't been threatened..

    Come to think of it; probably easier to move here to CO- get a CHP- and move back. At least then you'll have a CHP to apply for your CCW with. Helps the chances.

    I'm really glad to see a shift in responsibility. While I haven't studied the bill; I look forward to Michigan residents having easier- and equal- access to individual self defense with a handgun.

    I absolutely hate that Michigan's CCW is discretionary.

  10. #10
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    cscitney87 wrote:
    Being out of town and Michigan my home state... I just could Never wrap my head around the whole County Gun Boards review. I just can't imagine appearing in front of a panel of individuals to divulge my needs and wants. Ew the whole situation creeps me out. Back in Michigan; my friends and I used to dream of getting CCWs when we turned 21.. That was back in High School before I realized my local Sheriff was probably going to tell me to Get Lost. Didn't own a business. Don't have money. Not a target for criminals. Haven't been threatened..

    Come to think of it; probably easier to move here to CO- get a CHP- and move back. At least then you'll have a CHP to apply for your CCW with. Helps the chances.

    I'm really glad to see a shift in responsibility. While I haven't studied the bill; I look forward to Michigan residents having easier- and equal- access to individual self defense with a handgun.

    I absolutely hate that Michigan's CCW is discretionary.
    FYI

    On January 1, 2002 the state of Michigan transitioned from a "may issue" policy to a "shall issue" policy with respect to the issuance of Concealed Pistol Licenses (CPL), as a consequence of the enactment of Public Act 381 of 2001. Previously, CPL applicants had to show a need and meet other unspecified and discretionary criteria, as established by the county gun board in which the applicant resided.

    Currently, the CPL licensing standards are no longer arbitrary. In essence, all CPL applicants that meet state's statutory requirements "shall be" issued a CPL. The current requirements are significantly more stringent than those that existed under prior law, however an applicant now has the ability to know with almost absolute certainty whether he can be issued a CPL.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    Shall Issue. Exactly What's the County Gun Board for? Or is that the reason why we're dumping it on the SOS? Yeah, it is. I just finished reading up. Jeez oH peets http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123...0926--,00.html There are a BILLION ways to Not get your permit. Within 8 years- One reckless driving charge? That's not hard to do. Not hard at all... lolol

  12. #12
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    cscitney87 wrote:
    Shall Issue. Exactly What's the County Gun Board for? Or is that the reason why we're dumping it on the SOS?
    Currently, the County Gun Boards fulfill multiple purposes including CPL (Concealed Pistol License) Processing. The bill listed in this post would centralize the responsibility to the SOS (Secretary Of State).

    Please see MCL 28.425b for more information on county gun boards responsibility for CPL processing:

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425b
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    PDinDetroit wrote:
    cscitney87 wrote:
    Shall Issue. Exactly What's the County Gun Board for? Or is that the reason why we're dumping it on the SOS?
    Currently, the County Gun Boards fulfill multiple purposes including CPL (Concealed Pistol License) Processing. The bill listed in this post would centralize the responsibility to the SOS (Secretary Of State).

    Please see MCL 28.425b for more information on county gun boards responsibility for CPL processing:

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425b
    Yeah just finished reading that. The County Gun Board is a waste of space, money, resources, and time. Concealed License Board or whatever it's officially called. I support this move the SOS; to streamline the process. A County Gun Board... what an Ancient institution.

    I believe we'll be saving public dollars by shifting the responsibility to the SOS; from the County board. What do you all think to the effect of saving public dollars?

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    RTM, Lake Linden, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    232

    Post imported post

    An endorsement on the regular drivers license/enhanced drivers license would also be nice. Something a little more prefessional in appearance then the little green paper would be nothing but better in my eyes.

  15. #15
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    northofnowhere wrote:
    An endorsement on the regular drivers license/enhanced drivers license would also be nice. Something a little more prefessional in appearance then the little green paper would be nothing but better in my eyes.
    It appears that the MI SOS is up for that per Joel Sheltrown:

    It is my understanding that Secretary Land supports putting a CPL endorsement on the drivers' license or state ID.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    After dealing with the Oakland County gun board, I want them disbanded as well. As I was leaving, with that anti nazi feeling, ( you know ), I read the signatures on my infringements form and noticed the title under the signature. I thought, geez, I might have guessed he was a cop, its pretty bad when you can tell someone is a cop even when they are out of uniform....





  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    You mean besides from the Buzz Cut?

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    inkster, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    150

    Post imported post

    the only problem i see is, where the bill crosses out pistols licence for pistol, (one) not the possibility of more then one being carried. as i read it, and i my be wrong

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    MOC IT / Midland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    416

    Post imported post

    the only problem that i see if having an endorsement on a drivers license is when you need to present it for identification of a cc purchase (which technically, a business cannot ask you to provide.... as crazy as that sounds), or check processing, or in a bank to with draw funds, etc.... do YOU want those people to know that potentially that you may be carrying concealed??

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    Why carry concealed at all, thats counterproductive.

  21. #21
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mason, Michigan
    Posts
    1,811

    Post imported post

    viperar15 wrote:
    the only problem that i see if having an endorsement on a drivers license is when you need to present it for identification of a cc purchase (which technically, a business cannot ask you to provide.... as crazy as that sounds), or check processing, or in a bank to with draw funds, etc.... do YOU want those people to know that potentially that you may be carrying concealed??
    most of us open carry...why would we be afraid of people knowing we carry?
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  22. #22
    Regular Member mel5051's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Wixom, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    103

    Post imported post

    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    viperar15 wrote:
    the only problem that i see if having an endorsement on a drivers license is when you need to present it for identification of a cc purchase (which technically, a business cannot ask you to provide.... as crazy as that sounds), or check processing, or in a bank to with draw funds, etc.... do YOU want those people to know that potentially that you may be carrying concealed??
    most of us open carry...why would we be afraid of people knowing we carry?
    I certainly hope, at your age of 17, that you are NOT carrying at all. Leave that until you are the legal age of 18, which I believe in your case, in late July.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    RTM, Lake Linden, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    232

    Post imported post

    I prefer the entire world to know I carry, but the point is quite good, most people who carry prefer noone to know "always carry, never tell" and such. While I prefer to spread the word and get more people interested in self defense, others do not feel that political and social draw to get others to do so as well. perhaps for that crowd the license endorsement would be a bad way to go, as they prefer to keep thier gun a private matter.

    Very good point on the endorsement idea. Gotta express your rights, but still need to respect and think about others and how they express them as well.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    I wouldn't want the CCW on my Drivers License. There are some private business that post No Firearms stickers. If I have to present my ID; I do not need the owner knowing I have a firearm. The point of concealing over Open Carry is just in case of this situation. Go In- Transact Business- Leave.. All while carrying but concealed as to be asked to leave the business. I know about all the cunning replies and come backs to the above situation so save it. Just saying I don't want the CCW indicator on my Drivers License. It's a very, very, very personal issue to me. Much more so than my Date of Birth and Address (which are publicly available anyway). CCW status is Private.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    Every time you use your Credit Card and the merchant asks for ID.. Do you need that person knowing you are Armed with a firearm? Absolutely Not in any Fashion/Way/Just No. Happens to us all the time when we use a credit card.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •