View Poll Results: Which do you prefer ? Revolver or Semi Auto

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  • Semi Auto

    39 88.64%
  • Revolver

    5 11.36%
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Thread: Semi Auto or Revolver for OC .

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Just curious what the % of people are that OC Semi's or Revolvers.

    OK, What is the pistol you use the most often for OC.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  2. #2
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    I refrained because I OC both.

  3. #3
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    I currrently use a semi-auto CZ75 holds 14+1 but have been looking into the Derringgers(2 shot) so what cat.does that fall into?

  4. #4
    Regular Member Nikki_Black's Avatar
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    CarryOpen wrote:
    I refrained because I OC both.
    Same here.

  5. #5
    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    I didn't vote because I do both.

    Revolvers are for at work because they're easier to operate with greasy hands or while working my land because they're more tolerant of dirt and easier to operate with sweaty hands. This is my opinion and experience, not a fact.

    Then, generally speaking, semi-autos the rest of the time for their increased capacity and slimness.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

  6. #6
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    I used to be fine with carrying a revolver, but in the last few years I came to the realization that capacity is more important to me than caliber.

    Do I want to be stuck with only 6 shots before trying to reload a revolver in a very stressful situation, or do I want 17 shots at my disposal before needing to simply slide in a full magazine to have another 16 rounds available to me in less than 2 seconds time.

    My revolver is a .357, my pistol is a .40S&W

  7. #7
    Regular Member 25sierraman's Avatar
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    I also carry both. I guess it just depends on my mood most of the time. The revolver is the only thing i carry when im hiking though. I guess i fall into the same train of thought as hp-hobo and i feel as if the revolver will be a bit more resistant to all the dirt and grit that gets into it when im in the middle of the woods. The semi is a bit more comfortable to carry IWB and conceal when im walking around town and what not.
    HOOAH?

  8. #8
    Regular Member younggun20's Avatar
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    I have carried both, the reason I chose semi more than not is round count and weight. My Glock 22 doesn't seem to pull my pants down like the 686+ does

    Via Glock.com

    Glock22
    WEIGHT
    650 g / 22.92 oz.
    LOADED (~)
    975 g / 34.38 oz.

    Via-http://www.proguns.com/smithwesson-686-6inch.asp

    686+
    • Weight Empty: 44 oz.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    Both have their advantages, I own both and I like both. No right or wrong answer, pick what tickles your giggle.
    Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    once WI gets CC I am going to pick up a Ruger SP-101 > .357 /38 Special , it's alot more Concealable than my Glock 34...so the glock for winter Jackets & the Ruger for Summer shirts. If I need more than 6 shots I am in trouble regardless.



    <<<<< 1900 posts woohoooo
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  11. #11
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    Hopefully you only need five then. That's how the SP is more concealable

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    The word "you" in the following is used in the generic sense... not directed at anyone personally...

    I keep hearing folks say that the "average" gun fight lasts 3 seconds, is at 3 feet, and takes 3 rounds. Or that if they need more than 5 shots they are really in trouble anyway.

    Well... what is to say the encounter that you encounter will be "average"? Betting on that is just not logical. What is logical is to do a risk assessment on what kind of encounter you personally might reasonably expect to ... encounter... and plan accordingly.

    Do you live in, or pass through, areas that are high crime or known to have gang activity? Can you count on facing only one assailant... or will there be multiple assailants? Bring more ammo capacity.

    Are you a reasonably accurate shot in a self defense scenario where you are moving and shooting rapid fire? Remember, only hits count and if you can't make COM hits while moving and firing quickly... you will need more ammo capacity. You also desperately need more practice!!!!! Like it or not... real life isn't like the movies where the good guy shoots and the bad guy sprouts a hole right between the eyes..... and sometimes the hits that are made are not to COM but to arms/legs/hands and don't do much to slow the bad guy down.

    To say that if you need more than 5 shots you are in deep trouble... and neglected to bring more than 5 shots... then you have decided to give up and let the bad guy(s) win after expending what you brought. Not very wise planning... to plan to fail because of lack of ammo.

    So... what to do when you really prefer low ammo capacity revolvers (the reasons why don't matter) over semi autos?

    Bring more than one revolver. Bring speed loaders.

    Now.. please consider this... police carry a semi auto duty sidearm with ammo capacity of 15 to 17 rounds in the magazine... and 2 extra magazines... that makes an ammo capacity of 45 to 51 rounds.. and that doesn't count the officer's BUG and the rounds contained therein.

    Officers carry that much because their job puts them in situations that might require that many rounds.... so... what factors are operative in your life that could lead to what kind of situations you could encounter... and how many rounds will you need to address the worst possible situation you can think of. Carry that amount of ammo capacity whether it be inside a couple of semi autos... one semi auto and extra magazines... two or more revolvers... one revolver and extra speed loaders.

    What you choose for you is... for you and how your life is lived. What I choose for me is... for me and how my life is lived. Both are valid choices.

    But, after a gun fight, to my knowledge no one has ever complained about having too much ammo....
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Bikenut wrote:
    The word "you" in the following is used in the generic sense... not directed at anyone personally...

    I keep hearing folks say that the "average" gun fight lasts 3 seconds, is at 3 feet, and takes 3 rounds. Or that if they need more than 5 shots they are really in trouble anyway.

    Well... what is to say the encounter that you encounter will be "average"? Betting on that is just not logical. What is logical is to do a risk assessment on what kind of encounter you personally might reasonably expect to ... encounter... and plan accordingly.

    Do you live in, or pass through, areas that are high crime or known to have gang activity? Can you count on facing only one assailant... or will there be multiple assailants? Bring more ammo capacity.

    Are you a reasonably accurate shot in a self defense scenario where you are moving and shooting rapid fire? Remember, only hits count and if you can't make COM hits while moving and firing quickly... you will need more ammo capacity. You also desperately need more practice!!!!! Like it or not... real life isn't like the movies where the good guy shoots and the bad guy sprouts a hole right between the eyes..... and sometimes the hits that are made are not to COM but to arms/legs/hands and don't do much to slow the bad guy down.

    To say that if you need more than 5 shots you are in deep trouble... and neglected to bring more than 5 shots... then you have decided to give up and let the bad guy(s) win after expending what you brought. Not very wise planning... to plan to fail because of lack of ammo.

    So... what to do when you really prefer low ammo capacity revolvers (the reasons why don't matter) over semi autos?

    Bring more than one revolver. Bring speed loaders.

    Now.. please consider this... police carry a semi auto duty sidearm with ammo capacity of 15 to 17 rounds in the magazine... and 2 extra magazines... that makes an ammo capacity of 45 to 51 rounds.. and that doesn't count the officer's BUG and the rounds contained therein.

    Officers carry that much because their job puts them in situations that might require that many rounds.... so... what factors are operative in your life that could lead to what kind of situations you could encounter... and how many rounds will you need to address the worst possible situation you can think of. Carry that amount of ammo capacity whether it be inside a couple of semi autos... one semi auto and extra magazines... two or more revolvers... one revolver and extra speed loaders.

    What you choose for you is... for you and how your life is lived. What I choose for me is... for me and how my life is lived. Both are valid choices.

    But, after a gun fight, to my knowledge no one has ever complained about having too much ammo....
    YOU forgot to add WE are responsible for the Bullet WE fire down range. in an urban setting a running gun fight means each miss is a potential innocent that just got hit. I don't care if your life is in peril, you better be able to account for your rounds & WHERE they went.

    you got the bad guy but 2 of your rounds killed innocent bystanders , let me know what prison is like, ok.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
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    I carry both but when I OC it's an auto.
    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

  15. #15
    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    I carry a semi. It's more or less a personal choice for me.

    Don't get me wrong - I still greatly respect a revolver. I just find they aren't me.

    I have a friend who has a wheel gun, he loves that thing. He hates semi's. I love semi's. Not a big fan of revolvers. Personal taste.

    I carry 25 rounds (3 magazines +1 in the pipe) - if I were to carry that with speed loaders, I would have a rather bulgy pocket if I may say so...

    Either way, semi or wheelie, its the operator's choice, bottom line. People can go back and forth on everything, but it all boils down to personal taste, training, and experience with whatever they decide to defend themselves with.


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  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    elixin77 wrote:
    I carry a semi. It's more or less a personal choice for me.

    Don't get me wrong - I still greatly respect a revolver. I just find they aren't me.

    I have a friend who has a wheel gun, he loves that thing. He hates semi's. I love semi's. Not a big fan of revolvers. Personal taste.

    I carry 25 rounds (3 magazines +1 in the pipe) - if I were to carry that with speed loaders, I would have a rather bulgy pocket if I may say so...

    Either way, semi or wheelie, its the operator's choice, bottom line. People can go back and forth on everything, but it all boils down to personal taste, training, and experience with whatever they decide to defend themselves with.

    Currently, I carry 1 spare mag, for a Grand total of 34 rounds.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  17. #17
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Glock34 wrote:
    Bikenut wrote:

    Are you a reasonably accurate shot in a self defense scenario where you are moving and shooting rapid fire? Remember, only hits count and if you can't make COM hits while moving and firing quickly... you will need more ammo capacity. You also desperately need more practice!!!!! Like it or not... real life isn't like the movies where the good guy shoots and the bad guy sprouts a hole right between the eyes..... and sometimes the hits that are made are not to COM but to arms/legs/hands and don't do much to slow the bad guy down.
    YOU forgot to add WE are responsible for the Bullet WE fire down range. in an urban setting a running gun fight means each miss is a potential innocent that just got hit. I don't care if your life is in peril, you better be able to account for your rounds & WHERE they went.

    you got the bad guy but 2 of your rounds killed innocent bystanders , let me know what prison is like, ok.
    Ummmm... where did I say anything about missing? I pointed out that peripheral hits don't do much to stop the bad guy. I didn't say bring more ammo just in case you miss.

    But your point is genuine... WE are responsible for each and every bullet that comes out of our gun no matter where it goes...

    Hence the bit in my post about:

    "You also desperately need more practice!!!!!"
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  18. #18
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    I voted revolver because I shoot my revolver so much better than my semi-auto, so that is what I carry. As my shooting improves, or I try another model or caliber of semi, then it may change. But for now, I go with the wheelgun.

  19. #19
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    I think that it should be noted that the average number of rounds fired by officers in the line of duty tends to trend upward after they get semi-auto pistols. There seems to be a tendency to fire more rounds more rapidly with self loading pistols.

    I'm not saying you need more or less than five rounds, I never carry without a reload. But just because the current trend is to carry 50 rounds doesn't mean that it's what you or I need.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    25% hits by an average law enforcement officer under stressful conditions and a not so good regimen of regular marksmanship practice comes out to an average of 4.75 hits out of 19 rounds fired. (numbers are arbitrary, if you don't like them make up your own numbers)

    A revolver man who practices regularly and who has been to the party so his reactions are tempered by experience makes 75% hits out of 6 shots. This comes out to 4.5 hits. Anybody see a pattern here between a shooter and a spray and pray man.

    Beware the man with one gun, it might be all he has and he knows how to shoot it...well beware the man with only 6 bullets, he's probably pretty confident in his ability to make those shots count.

    Okay nit pickers jump in and flame away.
    Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA

  21. #21
    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    Old Grump wrote:
    Beware the man with one gun, it might be all he has and he knows how to shoot it...well beware the man with only 6 bullets, he's probably pretty confident in his ability to make those shots count.
    This pretty well sums it up right here. While the idea of having lots of ammo readily available sounds good on paper, there's a reason the old experienced guys don't need to carry a G17 with a 33-round mag in it along with five more happysticks on their belt.

    There's a reason the US military got away from full auto M16's/M-4's and went to three round burst. It forces you to become a better marksman and make your shots count. If I'm not mistaken, it also increased the kill ratio.


    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    Old Grump wrote:
    25% hits by an average law enforcement officer under stressful conditions and a not so good regimen of regular marksmanship practice comes out to an average of 4.75 hits out of 19 rounds fired. (numbers are arbitrary, if you don't like them make up your own numbers)

    A revolver man who practices regularly and who has been to the party so his reactions are tempered by experience makes 75% hits out of 6 shots. This comes out to 4.5 hits. Anybody see a pattern here between a shooter and a spray and pray man.

    Beware the man with one gun, it might be all he has and he knows how to shoot it...well beware the man with only 6 bullets, he's probably pretty confident in his ability to make those shots count.

    Okay nit pickers jump in and flame away.
    Could we have a source for those statistics?

    Thanks!

  23. #23
    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    I play paintball whenever I can, and people have noticed two different types of players: the players with a 1/4 - 3/4 of a case (2000 paintballs) on their back for a 5 minute match, and those with a grand total of 50 paintballs on their body for the same match.

    It's always been a hot topic that if you shoot a lot, your going to miss a lot, so you shoot more to make up for what you miss. If you shoot a little, you take your time with each shot to make each shot count.

    I know paintball is completely different then OC'ing, but its an analogy that people (I at least) can understand.

    If you have less ammo, you conserve it and shoot only when you know you can make the shot. If you have a minigun with belt on you, then you hold the trigger down.

    But again, to each his own on how that person wishes to defend themselves.
    Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.

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  24. #24
    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    CarryOpen wrote:
    Old Grump wrote:
    25% hits by an average law enforcement officer under stressful conditions and a not so good regimen of regular marksmanship practice comes out to an average of 4.75 hits out of 19 rounds fired. (numbers are arbitrary, if you don't like them make up your own numbers)

    A revolver man who practices regularly and who has been to the party so his reactions are tempered by experience makes 75% hits out of 6 shots. This comes out to 4.5 hits. Anybody see a pattern here between a shooter and a spray and pray man.
    Could we have a source for those statistics?

    Thanks!
    Conglomeration of many articles over the years but here is one on police stats.

    Hit Potential In Gun Fights The police officer's potential for hitting his adversary during armed confrontation has increased over the years and stands at slightly over 25% of the rounds fired. An assailant's skill was 11% in 1979.
    In 1990 the overall police hit potential was 19%. Where distances could be determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:
    Less than 3 yards ..... 38% 3 yards to 7 yards .. 11.5%
    7 yards to 15 yards .. 9.4%
    In 1992 the overall police hit potential was 17%. Where distances could be determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:
    Less than 3 yards ..... 28%
    3 yards to 7 yards .... 11%
    7 yards to 15 yards . 4.2%

    http://www.virginiacops.org/articles...ing/Combat.htm
    Myth 9: Ordinary citizens (non-police, non-military) cannot effectively use firearms for self-defense and are more likely to get injured using a gun for self-defense than not. The utility of defensive gun use can be determined by referencing the NCVS database and analyzing crime incidents that occurred between 1979-1985. These files are the most detailed and representative account of the defensive actions of victims. According to the information in the database, guns are the most effective weapon and means of self-defense in thwarting robbery and assault. When using a gun in self-defense, 83 percent of robbery victims and 88 percent of assault victims were not injured. Furthermore, only one in four victims using a gun in self-defense was even attacked during a robbery or assault. These rates were by far the lowest compared to other weapons, bodily force, or nonviolent actions used in self-defense. Additional support for defensive gun use can be garnered from the NSDS. The NSDS, which has yielded the most detailed information on defensive gun use to date, concluded that only 5.5 percent of victims using guns in self-defense were injured. Despite the impression fostered by films and TV, the majority of confrontations are not very dramatic. According to the NSDS, 76 percent of the incidents were resolved without the victim firing a shot. In only 16 percent of the incidents did the victim attempt to shoot the criminal, with no more than 8 percent of all incidents resulting in the wounding or death of the criminal. In fact, only 18 percent of the gun defense victims faced a criminal in possession of a gun, and only 3 percent of the incidents resulted in both parties shooting at each other. Contrary to the popular fear that a criminal is likely to seize the victim’s gun and use it against him, this situation occurred in about 1 percent of the incidents recorded in the NCVS. Furthermore, less than 2 percent of fatal gun accidents are defendants mistaking someone for an intruder. Sources: Gary Kleck. Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, (New York: Walter de Gruyter, Inc., 1997). Don B. Kates Jr., and Gary Kleck. The Great American Gun Debate: Essays on Firearms and Violence, (San Francisco: Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy, 1997).
    Doesn't support my number but I told you it was arbitrary. Fact remains 75% of the time when a gun is displayed by the defender no shots are fired. a little over 7% of the defenders fired a warning shot, and 16% shot at the criminals and 8% of the criminals were wounded or died . This excerpt is from the 70's, reports from the 80's and 90's have nearly identical numbers percentage wise. Unfortunately data isn[t kept on civilian shootings the way they are on police shootings and they don't get reported the same way as they would if the home owner shot and killed an innocent person.

    Other reports I have read over the years give the civilian the advantage over police in shootings vs offender because the civilian is already armed when he meets the offender. He is usually on home ground, he doesn't have the restraints on him that an officer has and his being armed is usually a surprise to the offender. Over the years in all the reports I have read the exchange of gunfire between the defender and the offender only happens 3% of the time. Point to the scare factor of guns in the hands of civilians. Telling point is that in spite of dire predictions by the ninnies the bad guys only get the gun away from the defender in a little less than 1% of the time.

    I read way to much. Somewhere in my library are the numbers I'm looking for and don't have a clue as to where I squirreled them away or if I even kept them.

    Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA

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    Old Grump wrote:
    CarryOpen wrote:
    Old Grump wrote:
    25% hits by an average law enforcement officer under stressful conditions and a not so good regimen of regular marksmanship practice comes out to an average of 4.75 hits out of 19 rounds fired. (numbers are arbitrary, if you don't like them make up your own numbers)

    A revolver man who practices regularly and who has been to the party so his reactions are tempered by experience makes 75% hits out of 6 shots. This comes out to 4.5 hits. Anybody see a pattern here between a shooter and a spray and pray man.
    Could we have a source for those statistics?

    Thanks!
    Conglomeration of many articles over the years but here is one on police stats.

    Hit Potential In Gun Fights The police officer's potential for hitting his adversary during armed confrontation has increased over the years and stands at slightly over 25% of the rounds fired. An assailant's skill was 11% in 1979.
    In 1990 the overall police hit potential was 19%. Where distances could be determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:
    Less than 3 yards ..... 38% 3 yards to 7 yards .. 11.5%
    7 yards to 15 yards .. 9.4%
    In 1992 the overall police hit potential was 17%. Where distances could be determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:
    Less than 3 yards ..... 28%
    3 yards to 7 yards .... 11%
    7 yards to 15 yards . 4.2%

    http://www.virginiacops.org/articles...ing/Combat.htm
    Myth 9: Ordinary citizens (non-police, non-military) cannot effectively use firearms for self-defense and are more likely to get injured using a gun for self-defense than not. The utility of defensive gun use can be determined by referencing the NCVS database and analyzing crime incidents that occurred between 1979-1985. These files are the most detailed and representative account of the defensive actions of victims. According to the information in the database, guns are the most effective weapon and means of self-defense in thwarting robbery and assault. When using a gun in self-defense, 83 percent of robbery victims and 88 percent of assault victims were not injured. Furthermore, only one in four victims using a gun in self-defense was even attacked during a robbery or assault. These rates were by far the lowest compared to other weapons, bodily force, or nonviolent actions used in self-defense. Additional support for defensive gun use can be garnered from the NSDS. The NSDS, which has yielded the most detailed information on defensive gun use to date, concluded that only 5.5 percent of victims using guns in self-defense were injured. Despite the impression fostered by films and TV, the majority of confrontations are not very dramatic. According to the NSDS, 76 percent of the incidents were resolved without the victim firing a shot. In only 16 percent of the incidents did the victim attempt to shoot the criminal, with no more than 8 percent of all incidents resulting in the wounding or death of the criminal. In fact, only 18 percent of the gun defense victims faced a criminal in possession of a gun, and only 3 percent of the incidents resulted in both parties shooting at each other. Contrary to the popular fear that a criminal is likely to seize the victim’s gun and use it against him, this situation occurred in about 1 percent of the incidents recorded in the NCVS. Furthermore, less than 2 percent of fatal gun accidents are defendants mistaking someone for an intruder. Sources: Gary Kleck. Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, (New York: Walter de Gruyter, Inc., 1997). Don B. Kates Jr., and Gary Kleck. The Great American Gun Debate: Essays on Firearms and Violence, (San Francisco: Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy, 1997).
    Doesn't support my number but I told you it was arbitrary. Fact remains 75% of the time when a gun is displayed by the defender no shots are fired. a little over 7% of the defenders fired a warning shot, and 16% shot at the criminals and 8% of the criminals were wounded or died . This excerpt is from the 70's, reports from the 80's and 90's have nearly identical numbers percentage wise. Unfortunately data isn[t kept on civilian shootings the way they are on police shootings and they don't get reported the same way as they would if the home owner shot and killed an innocent person.

    Other reports I have read over the years give the civilian the advantage over police in shootings vs offender because the civilian is already armed when he meets the offender. He is usually on home ground, he doesn't have the restraints on him that an officer has and his being armed is usually a surprise to the offender. Over the years in all the reports I have read the exchange of gunfire between the defender and the offender only happens 3% of the time. Point to the scare factor of guns in the hands of civilians. Telling point is that in spite of dire predictions by the ninnies the bad guys only get the gun away from the defender in a little less than 1% of the time.

    I read way to much. Somewhere in my library are the numbers I'm looking for and don't have a clue as to where I squirreled them away or if I even kept them.
    Actually, I'm not surprised you have a source for the 25%, but still have no source for the 75% figure. Nowhere did you say it was an arbitrary figure (arbitrary was only referenced in the auto paragraph), read the post that I quoted. You said that 75% hit rate was average for a "revolver man who practices regularly and who has been to the party".

    Where do you get the number of 75% from? Where do you get the other two factors to narrow down which revolver shooter hits 75% of the time? What makes you think that someone who practices with an auto and has "been to the party" can't hit better than 25%?

    I'd like sources on your new percentages as well, including dates, since all of the information that I have says that the numbers your throwing out there are anything but static.

    ETA - I made a mistake on the sources and corrected it.

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