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Thread: LEO encounter

  1. #1
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    Had a LEO encounter last week while OC'ing in Northville Twp. I went into Noodles & Company on 6 Mile and Haggerty to place a carry out order. I was OCing my Taurus 1911 and none of the employees seem to notice or care. Paid for my food and went back to my truck to have a smoke while waiting.

    I saw a friend of mine who works at the GameStop and I was chatting with him and another guy who noticed my side arm. He was friendly and asked me a ton of questions about OC which I happily answered.

    I finished my smoke and started walking towards Noodles when I hear "Sir, can I talk to you for a minute?" It was a Twp. LEO so I went over to have a word with him.

    He asked if I had a CPL and I immediately replied that I do not need a CPL to OC, nor do I have to show it to him. As soon as I told him that he said

    " I am not challenging you, We got a MWAG call and I was sent to check it out. I know OC is legal but I have to do my job. Northville Twp. is well aware of the law due to recent legal action being filed all over the state"

    He was nothing but polite and professional. We talked for a few minutes and he mentioned the Lansing Ponderosa incident.

    He asked very nicely to see my ID and CPL and I cooperated because he was not trying to be a jerk about the situation, and looked like he was irritated that someone called in an MWAG for nothing.

    We shook hands after my ID came back clean and he left. I was pretty pleased with the level of professionalism and courtesy that was shown and I am very happy to hear that Northville Twp. is aware of OC.

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    This is good to hear. I like how you handled yourself. Showing the LEO you know the laws, then offering your ID/CPL anyways. As long as the LEO's are respectful of us, there is know reason not to show it back to them. Nicely done.

  3. #3
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Good deal.

    Personally, I know some will not agree with me here, but if an officer comes up and isn't being a douchelord, I have no problems giving them my ID and CPL if they ask for it. I have nothing to hide, and my record will gladly show it. Treat people how you want to be treated. Act like a tool, and I'm not going to comply unless you force me, and if you do, well, expect to hear from my lawyer.
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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Sounds good!

    God Bless
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    God Bless

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    malignity wrote:
    Good deal.

    Personally, I know some will not agree with me here, but if an officer comes up and isn't being a douchelord, I have no problems giving them my ID and CPL if they ask for it. I have nothing to hide, and my record will gladly show it. Treat people how you want to be treated. Act like a tool, and I'm not going to comply unless you force me, and if you do, well, expect to hear from my lawyer.
    Not exactly disagreeing with you or Scott and Lord knows Scott's had some very impressive progress with LEO, but it still gives me a....knot in my stomach just thinking about it.

    I'm not 100% sure what I'd do in that particular situation, I'd like to think that, as politely as I could muster(obviously LEO demeanor would have a lot to do with it), reject the request and ask to leave, with all due respect. However, I might, in such a situation be so tense that I'd do whatever to try to make it as smooth as possible and get out of there w/o a ticket or some shiny bracelets.

    I dunno....

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    No matter how polite the officer is, I would refuse to show my ID. I would tell him that I would like to remain anonymous and would ask him to respect my privacy.

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    sasha601 wrote:
    No matter how polite the officer is, I would refuse to show my ID. I would tell him that I would like to remain anonymous and would ask him to respect my privacy.
    If you want to help him do his job, of checking you out...
    i suggest showing your DL, and then your CPL,, while your thumb is over your personnal info!

    that way he knows youve got ID, onlookers will see him do his job, you maintain your
    annonimity
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    He knew that I did not have to show him my ID or my CPL. I also take the stance that I have nothing to hide and if he treats me with respect then I will do the same. There is no sense in being a dickhead unless you have to IMO.

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    jonnymcsavage wrote:
    We shook hands after my ID came back clean
    This is a sign of trust.

    Police officers generally do not shake hands, due to risks involved with it.

    Sounds like you handled the encounter okay to me.

    -Richard-

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    my turn my turn. i think this was handled great and love hearing police professionalism. I used to prefer to remain anonymous when being confronted, but in this case where they are just doing their job and treat me with respect i will comply. After all, it is always easy to get their name/info

    +1

    Devery

  11. #11
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    jonnymcsavage wrote:
    He asked very nicely to see my ID and CPL and I cooperated because he was not trying to be a jerk about the situation, and looked like he was irritated that someone called in an MWAG for nothing.
    God I hate it when people give in and show ID. Oh, he was all, likeSO nice and everything so I showed him my ID.

    And it's BS when a LEO says I have to do my job. F*#@ that. The NAZI said the same thing. Guess what it didn't work for them and it won't work for LEOs.

    It's simple LEOs take an oath to uphold the Constitution and PROTECT INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS not violate them. If LEO's simply upheld their oath this country would be much better off. LEOs can refuse to uphold immoral laws and policies. Most choose to violate our rights on a daily basis.

    In the example above the LEO could have said "I have to check out this call and I see your are just OCing, have a nice day." But he violated you by asking for ID and you let him.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    yeah, actually a handshake is a pretty big thing. Thats a plus. Personally I never shake hands, don't get many opportunitys, but tactically speaking it ties up a hand and opens you up for many negative situations to unfold. lol nor do I get close enough
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    Jesus Christ Venator, tell me how you really feel. I did not break down and do anything. Like I said before, why would I go out of my way to be an ******* to this cop?

    It would cause me more problems to go out of my way and be a dick. I do not feel that my rights were in jeopardy, despite what you think. He did not attempt to disarm me, call for backup, or any other thing that cops do to be ********.

    Posts like these almost make me not want to post here. I try to tell you guys about it and I get the whole doom and gloom spiel, which is ********. Venator, you seriously need to lighten up a bit. Life is too short my friend.

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    jeremy05 wrote:
    yeah, actually a handshake is a pretty big thing. Thats a plus. Personally I never shake hands, don't get many opportunitys, but tactically speaking it ties up a hand and opens you up for many negative situations to unfold. lol nor do I get close enough
    He shook my left hand and I am a righty. I am not too worried about things going south in Northville or with their PD.

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    jonnymcsavage wrote:
    Jesus Christ Venator, tell me how you really feel. I did not break down and do anything. Like I said before, why would I go out of my way to be an @#$% to this cop?

    It would cause me more problems to go out of my way and be a dick. I do not feel that my rights were in jeopardy, despite what you think. He did not attempt to disarm me, call for backup, or any other thing that cops do to be @#$%s.

    Posts like these almost make me not want to post here. I try to tell you guys about it and I get the whole doom and gloom spiel, which is bull@#$%. Venator, you seriously need to lighten up a bit. Life is too short my friend.
    For what it's worth, your in a room full of adults, adults with very passionate feelings and opinions on personal freedoms and liberties. Might Ven have got a little riled up? Maybe, but how is your post any different from his? We're all, for the most part, on the same side here. Just people sharing their opinions, you post something like this, and guess what, you're going to get opinions, some you'll like others you won't. Someone once told me something; Opinions are like....something....everyone has one and they...something...something.

    Take your own advice, lighten up, it's the intrawebz!

    p.s. Ven, CHILL OUT!

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    To be sociably polite: "Opinions are like armpits, there are always more than one; and some stink more than others".

    Don't take it too hard Johnny; Venator and I have always disagreed on this point.
    He is very passionate in his beliefs and I respect him for that and the respect and ability for him and I to disagree on this point.

    I feel the more pleasant an encounter a "polite" officer has, the better opinion he may have on his next encounter keeping in mind the other OC'er wasn't such a bad guy. As opposed to leaving him with a negative encounter in his mind thinking we are all looking to make his job harder.

    On the other hand, a "hard a**" cop only deserves the same in response in which he sets the tone for the encounter. I have done it both ways and must be decided by each individual upon THEIR interactions with any LEO.

    JMO

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    Every encounter is a unique situation. When you take the field with one play in your play book....you'll probably lose the game. I like being open to different situations and having different responses ready. I've not shown ID in one instance and shown it in another. Both times handshakes were exchanged at the end of the encounter. Some people don't what care LEO's think about them, even if it may paint all us OCers with the same brush.

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    WARCHILD wrote:

    On the other hand, a "hard a**" cop only deserves the same in response in which he sets the tone for the encounter. I have done it both ways and must be decided by each individual upon THEIR interactions with any LEO.

    JMO

    Yes, that ^.

    One of the most productive, ( and politically vital ) responsibilities we have as OCers, is to build a bridge with the LEOs. We show them we are responsible professional, non excentric like some "militia" hotdog, and they can see us for what we are. Normal people who value our freedoms, and know what is needed to protect ourselves.

    Saying we know we dont have to show ID, and then doing it anyhow, opens that door.


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    Great job in stating your knowlwedge of the law and then making the situation as pleasent for you and the LEO as possible. I know what Venetor is saying and agree, but on grounds that it gives the LEO the pweor they desire. On the other hand, it shows the LEO that you are law abiding citizen and polite,and he went away knowing you're OK. It's a win for you and you understood that it wasn't apower trip for him.

    OK encounter.

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    For what it's worth, I think jonnymcsavage handled the incident pretty much perfectly.

    I think the operative words here are that the LEO ASKED to see his ID and CPL ... and he VOLUNTARILY complied. With all due respect Venator ... there's nothing wrong with that. It was his choice, just as it would have been your choice to say: "Officer, with all due respect, I'm under no legal obligation to identify myself, so I respectfully decline."

    I actually find it offensive that you automatically equate LEOs with Nazis ... the Nazis murdered my grandparents, and I count a number of LEOs among my friends ... please don't equate the two.

    One of the most precious things about having rights is having the CHOICE whether or not to invoke them.

    Venator wrote:
    jonnymcsavage wrote:
    He asked very nicely to see my ID and CPL and I cooperated because he was not trying to be a jerk about the situation, and looked like he was irritated that someone called in an MWAG for nothing.
    God I hate it when people give in and show ID. Oh, he was all, likeSO nice and everything so I showed him my ID.

    And it's BS when a LEO says I have to do my job. F*#@ that. The NAZI said the same thing. Guess what it didn't work for them and it won't work for LEOs.

    It's simple LEOs take an oath to uphold the Constitution and PROTECT INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS not violate them. If LEO's simply upheld their oath this country would be much better off. LEOs can refuse to uphold immoral laws and policies. Most choose to violate our rights on a daily basis.

    In the example above the LEO could have said "I have to check out this call and I see your are just OCing, have a nice day." But he violated you by asking for ID and you let him.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Johnny, did you get into your truck before the encounter, and if so did the officer see you in the truck?

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    I was wondering about that too.

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    scot623 wrote:
    Every encounter is a unique situation. When you take the field with one play in your play book....you'll probably lose the game. I like being open to different situations and having different responses ready. I've not shown ID in one instance and shown it in another. Both times handshakes were exchanged at the end of the encounter. Some people don't what care LEO's think about them, even if it may paint all us OCers with the same brush.
    I like this metaphor, a valid point no doubt. Like I said, I'm not 100% either way, the whole thing just gives me....pause.

  25. #25
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Listen guys and gals. LEOs work for us. They have to assume we are law-abiding until our actions give them RAS or PC. Guess what? Open Carry is lawful and if the only reason a LEO is talking to you is for OCing then the contact is casual and you are free to leave. PERIOD...no ID shown, no LIEN, no gun registration checkis allowed.

    Now if you want to give ID to the man then by all means go ahead. My entire point is that many if not all LEOs seem to think you work for them and you HAVE to do what they say. I think it's time we stand up to authority and our rights by being lawful and not complying with an unlawful request.

    This does a couple of things. It reminds LEOs that we are free citizens, that they work for us, that we are educated in our rights and reminds the officers that they can't continue to violate anyone's rights because they wear a badge.

    By refusing to obey an unlawful police request you have planted a seed into that officers mind and perhaps, just perhaps he will think about it and understand why he took an oath and why he became a police officer in the first place.

    Think about what I'm trying to say and if it seems harsh then so be it. We are either free or we are not.


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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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