MOC worth the $20

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zigziggityzoo wrote:

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Jesus christ. I've never spent $20 at one time in a fast food restaurant.

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WARCHILD wrote:

What did I get for my fifty bucks? Call it an insurance premium.



And the number one reason I spent fifty bucks:
It's only a drop in the bucket of the thousands of dollars I would have to spend to cover my legal team to get me out of a possible felony conviction.

snip

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There is no suggestion that MOC would cover any legal fees.

If you paid attention to the points I was making, you would understand that due to all the hard work of the people of this forum; bringing the awareness of OC into the public eye, may have saved ME from spending MY money for a legal defense.

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zigziggityzoo wrote:

cabman1 wrote:

How many time do you spend 20.00 at MCDonalds your 20 dollars is being put to good use!!After a McDonalds lunch all you have is an empty stomach!!!


LETS NOT START ARGUING

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Jesus christ. I've never spent $20 at one time in a fast food restaurant.

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Alright some of us like me that has 4 kids spend 20.00 at McDonalds.


others with no kids a night with there partner with a movie and dinner!!!

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zigziggityzoo wrote:

cabman1 wrote:

How many time do you spend 20.00 at MCDonalds your 20 dollars is being put to good use!!After a McDonalds lunch all you have is an empty stomach!!!


LETS NOT START ARGUING

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Jesus christ. I've never spent $20 at one time in a fast food restaurant.

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You don't have kids do you?

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Back on topic.....anyone else out there feel cheated on their membership fee?

If so, what did you expect for you money?

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Sigh...

An organization's internal problems need to be taken care of internally using internal methods of communication.... not aired on a forum being watched by the entire world.

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Well, yes and no Steve. This could apply to any organization which has a membership fee. We are not unique in that it is a non-profit org.

My general opinion is if you are joining a non-profit org. you don't really expect to have a return on your investment; you are paying to help support the org. you supposedly believe in and support.
But such is the human society now a days, always expect something in return for any support.
I support you but what's in it for me....disgusting. :uhoh: :banghead:

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WARCHILD wrote:

Well, yes and no Steve. This could apply to any organization which has a membership fee. We are not unique in that it is a non-profit org.

My general opinion is if you are joining a non-profit org. you don't really expect to have a return on your investment; you are paying to help support the org. you supposedly believe in and support.
But such is the human society now a days, always expect something in return for any support.
I support you but what's in it for me....disgusting. :uhoh: :banghead:

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The thing is - we can support the cause by DOING the very act of OCing - this does loads more than $20 ever could.

That's why it's nice to know why exactly the $20 (or $50 in my case) was even needed.

I mean, I raised way more than that by selling the OC Info cards and Stickers. A few hundred dollars came from me alone. Who knows where that went (was originally going to buy THE ORGANIZATION a projector - I wonder who has that projector now... Did it even get bought?).

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zigziggityzoo wrote:

I wonder who has that projector now... Did it even get bought?).

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zig... to my knowledge, this was never bought. also.. there was suppose to be 1 donated to the organization, this I also have not seen.

please dont shoot the messenger, i'm only providing the info that i have recieved upon taking over as treasurer.

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WARCHILD wrote:

Well, yes and no Steve. This could apply to any organization which has a membership fee. We are not unique in that it is a non-profit org.

My general opinion is if you are joining a non-profit org. you don't really expect to have a return on your investment; you are paying to help support the org. you supposedly believe in and support.
But such is the human society now a days, always expect something in return for any support.
I support you but what's in it for me....disgusting. :uhoh: :banghead:

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Jerry my friend... I understand that feelings about all this stuff being discussed right now run deep... on both sides but...

My point is quite simple...

Any organization of any kind that wishes to be viewed as respectable and a force to be reckoned with must present a professional image... and having the membership and leadership piss and moan on a forum open to the world, and we do know the world is watching now, undermines any credibility that organization has.

To put it in plain language... any dirty laundry should be washed out in house... not in the city square.

I am NOT saying that folks involved in this discussion (on either side) do not have valid points... I'm saying that if MOC, and it's membership, wish to be viewed as a credible organization then it is imperative to solve all problems in house... not in public.

And I don't even have a personal interest in this thing! Other than bickering in public does NOT help the cause of OC overall.

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viperar15 wrote:

zigziggityzoo wrote:

I wonder who has that projector now... Did it even get bought?).

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zig... to my knowledge, this was never bought. also.. there was suppose to be 1 donated to the organization, this I also have not seen.

please dont shoot the messenger, i'm only providing the info that i have recieved upon taking over as treasurer.

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No no, I don't blame you - I'm just remembering back when this org was just started, and I was supporting it financially. I'm pretty sure my own donations paid for 1/3 of that projector. Who knows where it is, if it exists, or if someone just kept my money.

I guess I should have just kept the money myself. jeez.

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I paid into an organization I knew that I would not see anything ever bought by it from my neck of the woods. I paid into MOC to be a part of something constructive in the fight for our rights for self defense. I wanted an organization that would be able to come together and pool money to buy things like banners and stickers that could be used at outtings and events. For the small amount it cost those who joined, it was well worth it in my opinion. I don't expect alot for my money, and personally, I think things have been going great, despite the constant negativity towards the organization by a few. If you aren't happy, leave and don't look back. If you are that upset by $20 or $50 then perhaps you need it more then MOC, as that is not a lot of money. Most of us have piles of money invested in firearms, ammo, range time, range membership, trainging, and CPL's. $20 or $50 is not a pile of money to most people, and if it is to you, then you very well should keep your $20 in your pocket for yourself.

In regards to the financials, well, it has been a bumpy road, and it is getting a bit annoying waiting, but it will come, and does it really matter if it was a few months ago or next month? In the end it won't affect anything having it all on paper for everyone.

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I agree Bikenut

Guys lets continue this discussion over in the members section of MOC.

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autosurgeon wrote:

I agree Bikenut

Guys lets continue this discussion over in the members section of MOC.

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mikestilly wrote:

nice.. give your opinion and receive a personal attack. Real professional. You're right about one thing

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Mike, you're posts are coming across as being VERY aggressive, this is why you receive aggressive responses to your post. Turn it down a few notches and your posts will be better received.

Jerry, from someone that preaches "de-escalation", you're not doing it.



Wow.... this coming from me...the pot stirrer

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Sorry Doug: I wasn't attempting to escalate anything. I just hate being accused of saying or implying that which I did not.

He cited a misinterpreted quote and I replied. End of discussion.

ETA: My apologies to the forum, I had no idea there were that many dissatisfied members. I guess it's best for me to keep my mouth shut and put up the keyboard.
(even though I didn't start the thread or the argument)

JMO

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mikestilly wrote:

I'm still waiting to see the financial statements of how our money is being spent. So far it's been in the cloak of darkness. Word of mouth is not the way to know how things are being spent legal documents are. Instead of support and help with my picnic I got we're pulling out SEE YAA! Thanks for nothing.

Warchild. I didnt see MOC help out at the Szerdi case. It was us OC'ers who stood up for him and helped turn the tide of the case from an over zealous cop who was on a power trip. Not MOC. Didnt hear a peep from MOC. What cases are you referring to? You're giving the impression that MOC would defend someone in a legal challenge. I highly doubt it when a case with simple support of a non-member was needed MOC was nowhere to be found. I still see the same problems that existed when I first became a member. Same ole issues still exist. MOC is scared to change or think outside the box. Even suggestions are knocked down and receive negative responses.

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So apparantly me taking my time last night to get in touch with you had no effect I take it Mike? when we parted ways I beleived we had an understanding of exactly what went down and were on good terms. And now you do this? And you said I was rude and disrespectful? C'mon brother, are we going to work together or not?

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JeffSayers wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

I'm still waiting to see the financial statements of how our money is being spent. So far it's been in the cloak of darkness. Word of mouth is not the way to know how things are being spent legal documents are. Instead of support and help with my picnic I got we're pulling out SEE YAA! Thanks for nothing.

Warchild. I didnt see MOC help out at the Szerdi case. It was us OC'ers who stood up for him and helped turn the tide of the case from an over zealous cop who was on a power trip. Not MOC. Didnt hear a peep from MOC. What cases are you referring to? You're giving the impression that MOC would defend someone in a legal challenge. I highly doubt it when a case with simple support of a non-member was needed MOC was nowhere to be found. I still see the same problems that existed when I first became a member. Same ole issues still exist. MOC is scared to change or think outside the box. Even suggestions are knocked down and receive negative responses.

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So apparantly me taking my time last night to get in touch with you had no effect I take it Mike? when we parted ways I beleived we had an understanding of exactly what went down and were on good terms. And now you do this? And you said I was rude and disrespectful? C'mon brother, are we going to work together or not?

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Ok.... that just strengthed my impression... and a not very favorable one at that... concerning the professionalism of MOC's leadership. And shows me that MOC is NOT something I wish to be affiliated with.

And I am a fervent every day OC'er.... so if you guys are losing credibility with me imagine what the public is thinking.... :banghead:

Jeff... this sort of thing is NOT helping MOC's image.

Sad really.

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zigziggityzoo wrote:

WARCHILD wrote:

Well, yes and no Steve. This could apply to any organization which has a membership fee. We are not unique in that it is a non-profit org.

My general opinion is if you are joining a non-profit org. you don't really expect to have a return on your investment; you are paying to help support the org. you supposedly believe in and support.
But such is the human society now a days, always expect something in return for any support.
I support you but what's in it for me....disgusting. :uhoh: :banghead:

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The thing is - we can support the cause by DOING the very act of OCing - this does loads more than $20 ever could.

That's why it's nice to know why exactly the $20 (or $50 in my case) was even needed.

I mean, I raised way more than that by selling the OC Info cards and Stickers. A few hundred dollars came from me alone. Who knows where that went (was originally going to buy THE ORGANIZATION a projector - I wonder who has that projector now... Did it even get bought?).

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Well I suggest you come to the members meeting this May. I'm sure they will have an accounting of fiances for you all.

Keep in mind MOC, Inc. does have a large financial balance for expenditures that have yet to come. As for other expenditures as was stated, there has been MOC, Inc. money (and my personal money) spent on banners, tables, canopy, banner stands, postage of mugs, etc., 6000 brochures, lawful carry stickers, and on and on. All of these things cost money and they were all purchase to help promote the open carry agenda. It's not like all the money is gone.

Keep in mind that MOC, Inc is only a year old, not every thing will be perfect, which would be true if were were a 100 years old.