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Thread: Sick Uncle pawns rifle, pays, then is contacted by ATF and told he cannot bear arms!

  1. #1
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    So my uncle in Utah goes in to a pawn shop and pawns a rifle for some cash. He ends up paying the rifle off and goes to pick it up and is told that he has to contact the ATF and is not allowed to pick up his rifle. He goes the the ATF and is told that he is unable to have weapons because he has a mental illness.
    He has a liver problem and not a mental illness.
    The part that kills me is that the ATF told him that he has no recourse and that there is nothing he can do to even try to contest their position.

    Has anyone heard of this happening before...Are there any federal laws that can be cited?
    I told him to go onto Utah OpenCarry and seek help or advice.

    Just putting some feelers out there, thanks

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    Regular Member younggun20's Avatar
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    Dont know much about the laws that could be cited but maybe a copy of medical records and a pro 2a lawyer would be a good start?

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    Here issomething that mightgive a trail to follow:

    http://www.aoc.state.nc.us/www/ids/D...earmConseq.pdf

    I foundit by googling "federal law gun mental illness".


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member SCJeffro's Avatar
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    younggun20 wrote:
    Dont know much about the laws that could be cited but maybe a copy of medical records and a pro 2a lawyer would be a good start?
    I agree, sounds like speaking to a 2a lawyer is a good course to take! I would be be about now if that were me!
    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution

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    How did the ATF even find out about the gun??? Does he have to have a background check done to get his gun back? Are pawn shops required to fill out a form and send it to the ATF whenever they receive a gun? Just curious

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    Yes
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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    I'd contact the NRA and see if their legal defense fund will help.

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    YoZUpZ wrote:
    How did the ATF even find out about the gun??? Does he have to have a background check done to get his gun back? Are pawn shops required to fill out a form and send it to the ATF whenever they receive a gun? Just curious
    In many states, including Utah, a pawn is legally a purchase/repurchase agreement. As such, when you pawn the gun, you are selling it to the pawn shop and when you retrieve it you are buying it back. As such, you have to go through the same procedure as if you are buying it the first time from a dealer.

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    I was just curious about this and found the folowing South Carolina law:
    SECTION 23-31-140

    (B) For purposes of this section, the purchase of a pistol does not include the redeeming of a pistol by its owner after it has been pledged to secure a loan

    I don't know how this would apply to federal laws but it appears to me that this law is aimed at Pawn Shops.



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    When I first purchased a gun, I was delayed, and then denied by the NICS background check. Apparently, I was a violent felon. Turns out, another man with the same name and B-day...different year, different middle name. The appeal takes a little time, but it can work.

    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsappeals.htm

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    Had a similar thing happen to me.
    A few years ago I had an apartment application denied because of my felony drug conviction in Tooele county.
    Same name, birthday 2 days apart but in different years.

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    Regular Member SCJeffro's Avatar
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    When I first got my CCW (CPL in WA) They said "We can't issue the permit as you have a felony on your record..."

    I said "WHAT felony??"

    They said "Did you steal a car in 1985 in Michigan?"

    My Reply... "Um NO in 1985 I was 11 and I was living in Montana"

    They ran my name again and found it was another "Jeff Anderson" evidently there is more than one... LOL :shock:
    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution

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    Whether or not it is true I was told by a FFL that if they called my request in by SS Number it would save a lot of those types of confusion. He said I didn't have to provide a SSN but it could help speed things up.Even with the SSN Ithere have been cases where two people with the same name, birthdate and birthplace have been assigned the same SSN. With that they had more problems than just the NICS chack.Now that I have my CWP I don't have to mess with the background check.

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    This is one of the biggest problems when it comes to lawful citizens owning guns. The law only serves to delay and deny those of us who choose to follow the laws; the criminals will always find ways to skirt gun control. It's time we focus on controlling the criminals.

    While I have occasionally purchased in a gun store since this incident, I usually choose to purchase privately (legal here) just to avoid jumping through the hoops and paperwork.

    BTW, yes, the SSN can help speed things up and help with accuracy in the system. SSN and privacy issues, etc are a topic for another board though.

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    rpyne wrote:
    YoZUpZ wrote:
    How did the ATF even find out about the gun??? Does he have to have a background check done to get his gun back? Are pawn shops required to fill out a form and send it to the ATF whenever they receive a gun? Just curious
    In many states, including Utah, a pawn is legally a purchase/repurchase agreement.
    In every state, a pawn shop that handles firearms must have an FFL, and must conduct the 4473/NICS procedure on anyone redeeming a firearm.


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