Open Carry on a Motorcycle

GlockFanatic943 · Apr 29, 2010

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Does open carrying on a motorcycle give the LEO's a reason to pull you over and perform an "e" check? Is that a lawful reason to be stopped? My question comes after being pulled over for just this very reason. No ticket was issued and i didn't get the officers name (wont happen again)

Gundude · Apr 29, 2010

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GlockFanatic943 wrote:

Does open carrying on a motorcycle give the LEO's a reason to pull you over and perform an "e" check? Is that a lawful reason to be stopped? My question comes after being pulled over for just this very reason. No ticket was issued and i didn't get the officers name (wont happen again)

From what I understand, they don't need probable cause or reasonable suspicion to do an (e) check. They are just authorized to do it. He/she must have seen your weapon and decided to check you out.

1245A Defender · Apr 29, 2010

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if he stopped you just to do an Echeck,,,
did you make the mistake of providing all your ID, registration, etc????

Gundude · Apr 29, 2010

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1245A Defender wrote:

if he stopped you just to do an Echeck,,,
did you make the mistake of providing all your ID, registration, etc????

If they ran his plate, they would have all that info. I think they run everyones plate when the do a stop.

greg36ff · Apr 29, 2010

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1245A Defender wrote:

if he stopped you just to do an Echeck,,,
did you make the mistake of providing all your ID, registration, etc????

Wow, that brings up some interesting questions. It could get "sticky" for all involved. probably a good reason not to open carry on a motorcycle.

I don't think the officer could demand ID, but to me it's not nearly a clear cut as an e- check while walking down the street.

GlockFanatic943 · Apr 29, 2010

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They had all info they needed before they approached me. when he hit the lights i thought to myself, well i wasn't speeding and i know all my registration and license is ok so it must be the UOC. The cop didn't give me a hard time and simply asked the usual but first asked if the gun was loaded (at this point i was a little nervous and did say "no sir the gun is not loaded in compliance with open carry laws". but after he ran my license and checked insurance and registration he mentioned he stopped me because of the gun and he said he had the right at anytime to do an "e" check. so thats when i pose the question is that ok that any LEO can just stop me to do conduct an "e" check at any time?

GlockFanatic943 · Apr 29, 2010

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1245A Defender wrote:

if he stopped you just to do an Echeck,,,
did you make the mistake of providing all your ID, registration, etc????

I had to provide him with all that info because i was driving or "riding" on the road and it was a "traffic" stop you could say.. is this not correct??

1245A Defender · Apr 29, 2010

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i could have explained more,,, in calif law, the cop has the right to inspect any gun he sees, to check if it is loaded...
you were pulled over only because the cop saw your gun,, not because you were breaking any driving laws....
the cop admitted to you that it was a gun Echeck stop,,, so the investigation of your driving credentials is not lawfully required....
most open carriers will tell you to refrain from providing id to LEO unless it its lawfully required to do so...
florida v. peters shows us that you would not be required to show id during that stop..
calif is not a stop and id state,,,

wewd · Apr 29, 2010

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Some misconceptions need clearing up here. Police do not have "rights", at least not any more than you or I do. They do have powers that are delegated to them, which 12031(e) does according to the written statute. It ostensibly authorizes a warrantless search of a person's property without requiring any standard of probable cause that a crime is being committed. The search itself is blatantly unconstitutional, as the fourth amendment and a litany of case law are very clear on when a search may be performed absent a warrant. PC 12031's days are numbered as it is, but should section (e) ever be challenged in federal court, it would die a sudden and horrible death. I think that anyone performing e-checks needs to be aware of the poison fruit they are picking when they do that. Qualified immunity is not sovereign immunity, and it is not an impenetrable shield.

bad_ace · Apr 29, 2010

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Audio from the audio recorder you were carrying?

March Hare · Apr 30, 2010

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bad_ace wrote:

Audio from the audio recorder you were carrying?

Just curious, is there a particular model recorder that is recommended?
I'm looking at buying another and would love some feedback.

Thanks,

-MH

bigtoe416 · Apr 30, 2010

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GlockFanatic943 wrote:

1245A Defender wrote:

if he stopped you just to do an Echeck,,,
did you make the mistake of providing all your ID, registration, etc????

Click to expand...

I had to provide him with all that info because i was driving or "riding" on the road and it was a "traffic" stop you could say.. is this not correct??

Greg36ff makes a good point here. You were pulled over so the officer could check to see if you were in compliance with CA PC 12031. You were. But the officer asked you for your license, which means he envoked CA VC 12951 which reads:

12951. (a) The licensee shall have the valid driver's license issued to him or her in his or her immediate possession at all times when driving a motor vehicle upon a highway.

Any charge under this subdivision shall be dismissed when the person charged produces in court a driver's license duly issued to that person and valid at the time of his or her arrest, except that upon a third or subsequent charge the court in its discretion may dismiss the charge. When a temporary, interim, or duplicate driver's license is produced in court, the charge shall not be dismissed unless the court has been furnished proof by the Department of Motor Vehicles that the temporary, interim, or duplicate license was issued prior to the arrest, that the driving privilege and license had not been suspended or revoked, and that the person was eligible for the temporary, interim, or duplicate license.

(b) The driver of a motor vehicle shall present his or her license for examination upon demand of a peace officer enforcing the provisions of this code.

When it says, "this code" I believe that means the California Vehicle Code. When the officer asked for your license, you should have responded, "Are you asking or demanding?" If he demanded it then he should have written you a ticket or a warning for something in the vehicle code. Since he did not, we can conclude that he is either smart and simply asked you for your license (which you could have refused to give him), or he illegally demanded that you present your license.

demnogis · Apr 30, 2010

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Yes, CHP or any other LEA which observes your possession of a firearm has the authority to demand an inspection of the firearm for an (e) check.

Be it riding a bike, walking on the street, riding a motorcycle, carrying in your vehicle...

This topic has been re-hashed a few times. Please search.

OC on motorcycle..

Second LEO Encounter (while riding)

mjones · Apr 30, 2010

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Can you be pulled over simply for an e-check - typically yes; I'll clarify below.

Can you be asked for ID - not for only an e-check, the LEO would need to also be enforcing some aspect of the Vehicle Code. They catch is there is no way for you to know if he is or not. i.e. Stopped for speeding and an e-check.

The Original Poster shows as located in Clovis. I didn't look it up, but is Clovis and incorporated City? Obviously Fresno is. Basically what I'm getting at is were you within incorporated city limits? If not e-checks do not exist unless you are in a prohibited area.

Everyone, don't forget, the ranks OCDO-California has grown tremendously and we're getting more and more folks that have allot of opportunity to actually truely Open Carry. So don't forget, e-checks are only authorized in a prohibited area.

bigtoe416 · Apr 30, 2010

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mjones wrote:

The Original Poster shows as located in Clovis. I didn't look it up, but is Clovis and incorporated City? Obviously Fresno is. Basically what I'm getting at is were you within incorporated city limits? If not e-checks do not exist unless you are in a prohibited area.

Excellent point! If this turns out to have occurred in unincorporated territory you were unlawfully seized. I'd file PRAR with the agency of the officer if that is the case.

GlockFanatic943 · Apr 30, 2010

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bad_ace wrote:

Audio from the audio recorder you were carrying?

My video and audio was not turned on yet because i had not arrived at where i was going, so the only video/audio i have is when i was UOC around my destination .. from now on the video and audio gets turned on the second i walk out my front door. rookie mistake that will not happen again.

GlockFanatic943 · Apr 30, 2010

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March Hare wrote:

bad_ace wrote:

Audio from the audio recorder you were carrying?

Click to expand...

Just curious, is there a particular model recorder that is recommended?
I'm looking at buying another and would love some feedback.

Thanks,

-MH

I use a 5th Gen i pod nano with video and audio. couple things i like,

1- Very small and slim so it fits perfectly in the little change pocket above your real pocket
2-Can turn the video/audio on with a lock so wont get bumped to off
3-Will consistently run until it has filled the entire i pod memory up.
(longest recording of video/ audio i have done is around 3 hours

New cost around $120 i think? i paid 87 shipped from ebay.

Wc · May 1, 2010

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Remind the Gun Free School zone means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public
or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds
of the public or private school.

nowaysayhey · May 13, 2010

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how about if i just ride past a school on my way home with open carry in my car or motorcycle? is that breaking the 1000 ft limit

1245A Defender wrote:

i could have explained more,,, in calif law, the cop has the right to inspect any gun he sees, to check if it is loaded...
you were pulled over only because the cop saw your gun,, not because you were breaking any driving laws....
the cop admitted to you that it was a gun Echeck stop,,, so the investigation of your driving credentials is not lawfully required....
most open carriers will tell you to refrain from providing id to LEO unless it its lawfully required to do so...
florida v. peters shows us that you would not be required to show id during that stop..
calif is not a stop and id state,,,

CA_Libertarian · May 14, 2010

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nowaysayhey wrote:

how about if i just ride past a school on my way home with open carry in my car or motorcycle? is that breaking the 1000 ft limit

Your question baffles me, but I'll try to answer...

1,000 feet means 1,000 feet. Either you're within 1,000 feet or you're not. Being in/on a motor vehicle doesn't change the distance between two fixed points.

If you're asking if being in/on a motor vehicle exempts you from 626.9, then the answer is "no."

Open Carry on a Motorcycle

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