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Thread: 'Why I quit the NRA', by Mark5019 in the Georgia OCDO sub-forum

  1. #1
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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum18/43378.html

    http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlanta-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m4d30-NRA-at-odds-with-gun-law-reform-in-Georgia

    When members of the General Assembly decided to pass a bill torepealGeorgia's 140 year old public gathering law on Thursday night, they were confused by the irony of the largest gun rights group in the nation opposing the reform.
    SB 308 passed the General Assembly late on thelast day of the session.The final version removedtwo provisions that had been in the bill earlier decriminalizing the carry of weapons by licensed personsin churches and on college campuses.Under the final version, these two locations will remain illegal for carry.
    The surprise came when the nation's largest and oldest gun rights lobby, the National Rifle Association,began lobbying against the bill. Earlier in the evening, the NRA had pushed legislators to add language expressly permitting the carry of weapons in airports. This language is already in a bill, SB 291, that the General Assembly passed earlier in the session. SB 291 is awaiting the Governor's signature. The NRA informed legislators that voting in favor of SB 308 without the amendment would be a "scorecard issue," meaning that the NRA would be using the vote against legislators in its ratings. In other words, legislators who voted to remove Georgia's restrictive public gathering law would be punished in ratings from the NRA.
    The proposed amendment was never added to SB 308. When the NRA was rebuffed on its proposed amendment, it then began lobbying aggressively against the bill. The local civil rights group GeorgiaCarry.Org was at the Capitollobbying for SB 308 to pass.
    During the Senate debate, Sen. Steve Thompsonstood in the well and read from GeorgiaCarry.Org's letter supporting SB 308. Calling GeorgiaCarry.Org's statement that it was tracking the SB 308 vote a "threat," Sen. Thompson reminded the Senators that theyhad "cover" to vote against the bill, since the NRAwas not in favor.Nan Orrock also mentioned the NRA's opposition. Even the bill'sauthor, Mitch Seabaugh,conceded that "the NRA . . . has issues with the legislation . . . I really am flummoxed . . ."
    The debate was broadcast online at Georgia PublicBroadcasting, and the archives are still there, which makes it all the stranger that the NRA-ILA is now claiming that it never opposed the bill. The NRA-ILA has directly called into question the credibility of three Georgia Senators and Georgia Public Broadcasting.
    From Georgia Public Broadcasting,
    The NRA was not in favor of the final bill.
    NRA-ILA issued the following statement to an NRA member seeking an explanation.
    Steve Thompson & Nan Orrock are anti-gun, D & F rated legislators. There statements are absolutely false. I would reconsider your sources.
    Your third “source” is invalid, as Seabaugh never stated the NRA was against SB 308.
    The problem with these statements are the multitude of witnesses at the Capitol that saw what the NRA was doing. Knowledge ofNRA opposition to SB 308 on Thursday evening is not limited to two Senators with low NRA ratings.
    A disappointed Chuck Turney resigned from the NRA this morning. A retired Marine now living in Georgia,Chuck was a top recruiter for the NRA, butseeing the group oppose a repeal of Georgia's public gathering law caused him to rethink his dedication to the group he had loved for decades.
    Up until this morning I was a NRA Endowment Life Member and Recruiter. That 30+ year relationship ended because of the actions of the NRA last night. Now if I could only recover the time and money I have wasted all these years!
    TheGeorgia firearms law and politics discussion and information web site, http://www.Georgiapacking.org, removed largelinks to the NRA membership page that had been displayed prominently at the bottom of every page for years. The links were visible early this morning but are now gone.
    NRA members in Georgia are hoping that the NRA will repent bypublicly encouraging the Governor to sign SB 308. In spite of Thursday's flap, GeorgiaCarry.Org has already sent mass emails to its members asking them to request that Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue sign SB 291, the NRA bill that passed earlier in the session. James Camp, a GeorgiaCarry.Org Board member and a founding member, said of the NRA's bill, "It is a good bill, and[GeorgiaCarry.Org] fully supports it. We are not playing any games over this issue. We definitely want the Governor to sign both bills."

    UPDATE: The NRA-ILA alert sent recently urged members to encourage the Governor to sign both SB 291 and SB 308. The relevant text follows:
    GEORGIA: Two Pro-Gun Bills Heading to the Governor! Two important pro-gun bills (Senate Bill 291 and Senate Bill 308) have both successfully passed and will now head to Governor Sonny Perdue's (R) desk for his consideration. SB291 would allow a person lawfully licensed to carry a concealed firearm the right to carry in all non-secure areas and while dropping off or picking up passengers at an airport or airport facility. Also included in the bill is a provision that would make the license renewal process much easier by basically creating an automatic renewal. Instead of the licensee having to remember to renew, the probate court will be required to send out renewals 90 days before expiration. SB308 would reform Georgia's concealed carry laws so that the concealed carry license would enable the person to carry any handgun or knife, openly or concealed. SB 308 would also allow concealed carry license holders to carry in more places by repealing the broad and vague "public gathering ban." Please begin contacting Governor Perdue today by phone at (404) 656-1776 or via email by clicking here and respectfully urge him to sign these important concealed carry reform bills.

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    Maybe we should start using score cards here in Wisconsin. Think the Politicians would get the point then?

    This doesn't surprise me where the NRA is concerned, I had an idea that this is how their system works after my conversations with the Wisconsin Liaison.

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    What, another bunch of wannabes? WCCA, WGO, WIFORCE. WCI, WiPatriots, WiWheelmen, Wi Monkeylegs and now Wisconsin Liason? WhoTF is this? Hyuck yuk yuk. Wotta bunch'a maroons!

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    I agree, that would more than likely be the response from the politicians and legislators.

    But it could also result in their political demise as well.

    If OCDO or WCI as an organization made public all of the current politicians votes on the issues it would definitley get attention and more than likely cost them votes at election time.

    Sure it may not get them all booted from office but it may boot enough to get the attention of the rest of the sorry lot.

    The problem is no one will take such a step because they think it will be to hard or time consuming or it just won't work.

    Truth is it more than likely would work and that is exactly why an organization the likes of the NRA uses the tactic. Because it works.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    I had opportunity to talk with the AG last night, and an NRA representative. They are BOTH hypocrites, and I have no problem saying it.

    Both said they were CONSERVATIVES who believed in SMALLER GOVERNMENT. Then both talked about forming a NEW BUREAUCRACY for a NEW CCW bill.

    We don't need another bureaucracy, we simply need to repeal 941.23, 941.235, and 941.237.

    Any NEW law will make more government. IF you find ANY politician that supports a NEW concealed carry law, then write to your news paper editors and call them out as NOT CONSERVATIVE as FAVORING BIGGER GOVERNMENT.

    I agree with Gleason, it will work.

    Go get 'em.

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    Hopefully, each of us individually keeps a scorecard of our particular interests because it is clear that there are too many political disruptors here. We will never get a pure uninfringed-2A candidate while the NRA and its dicks are tolerated.

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    bhancock
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    Maybe a little off topic, but I just for the first time in my life received a membership plea from the NRA and a huge fold out advertisement from Copenhagen products. I can't figure for the life off me how I got on their mailing list. The only connection I can make that might be of interest from either of them is DNR license records. I am pretty careful who I sign up with regarding junk mail. The only other firearm related transaction I have made is my WisconsinCarry membership and I bought a shotgun from Gander 3 years ago.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    I can assure you that the WCI membership list is held in strictest confidence and none of your information is shared or published.

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    I would put money on Gander leaking your info. The gun I bought there came with the nice glossy NRA add stuffed in the paperwork jacket.

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    Brendon .45 wrote:
    I would put money on Gander leaking your info. The gun I bought there came with the nice glossy NRA add stuffed in the paperwork jacket.
    Last Gander gun I got came with a "free" 1 year membership to the NRA...

    All I ever got was a card, and a lot of junk mail...

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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    I had opportunity to talk with the AG last night, and an NRA representative. They are BOTH hypocrites, and I have no problem saying it.

    Both said they were CONSERVATIVES who believed in SMALLER GOVERNMENT. Then both talked about forming a NEW BUREAUCRACY for a NEW CCW bill.

    We don't need another bureaucracy, we simply need to repeal 941.23, 941.235, and 941.237.

    Any NEW law will make more government. IF you find ANY politician that supports a NEW concealed carry law, then write to your news paper editors and call them out as NOT CONSERVATIVE as FAVORING BIGGER GOVERNMENT.

    I agree with Gleason, it will work.

    Go get 'em.
    Did you discuss repealing these statutes with them? And if so what was their reaction to your suggestion?

    I think their reaction is due to the anticipated SCOTUS decision that is up and coming.
    They want to get something passed now so it will be uneffected by the decision.

  12. #12
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    Actually, Gibbs openly suggested (right at the meeting, and in front of J.B.) violating the law and carrying concealed. He said the Jackson County DA wouldn't prosecute.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    I had opportunity to talk with the AG last night, and an NRA representative. They are BOTH hypocrites, and I have no problem saying it.

    Both said they were CONSERVATIVES who believed in SMALLER GOVERNMENT. Then both talked about forming a NEW BUREAUCRACY for a NEW CCW bill.

    We don't need another bureaucracy, we simply need to repeal 941.23, 941.235, and 941.237.

    Any NEW law will make more government. IF you find ANY politician that supports a NEW concealed carry law, then write to your news paper editors and call them out as NOT CONSERVATIVE as FAVORING BIGGER GOVERNMENT.

    I agree with Gleason, it will work.

    Go get 'em.
    In Colorado, for example, there was a near decade long battle to get CCW passed there. Colorado had it's unique situation with Denver and their "home rule" constitutional provision, but the original proposed "NRA" bills were crappy. Lots of GFZ's, and very strict training requirements and so on. They were vetoed by Roy Romer.

    A upstart organization called RMGO started attacking these NRA bills as anti-gun. Romer was in office until 2002, and then Governor Bill Owens became Governor, and strongly pro-carry Legislature got elected. Shall-issue and partial firearms preemption was passed in 2003. The only thing they lost was K-12 schools (Columbine occurred in that state), and you had a much larger variety of training certificates able to be used from various different sources (state hunters safety course, Basic Pistol, Home Firearms Safety, etc) instead of the restrictive Utah-style training that was proposed there in the late 1990's.

    A couple of things to remember:

    This isn't the 1980's and 1990's where state laws just stick around and never change. Nationwide, state CPZ's are getting repealed at an unparalleled rate. Arizona went with "constitutional carry" this year, and Nebraska, Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho are likely the next on the list.

    When considering supporting a CCW-license bill, keep in mind these issues:

    1) If training is required (I live in a state with no training requirements, we don't see problems here), it should be available from a very large variety of sources, not just the NRA. A hunters safety course from the state (which is free or almost free). This prevents any sort of overcharging for getting "state required training", which is common in states where only a specific kind of state-regulated training is required. If it doesn't include a very wide range of training options that isn't subject sudden price increases, the bill should not be supported. Hell, I'd say that the state should offer a free online course. That way of an "trainer" wants to charge a lot of money, they better be worth the money.

    2) CPZ zones need to be kept minimal. Restricted access facilities of jails and courthouses/courtrooms (with gun storage required so that no one has to leave their gun in their car) only. Since WisconsinCarry.org v. City of Milwaukee attacks the 1000 foot buffer around K-12 schools and not necessarily the actual property of the schools (I'll need to read it again), it is possible that, especially given the language of one of the footnotes in Heller that bans on carrying in schools are presumed constitutional under the 2A, that you may lose that. Currently, however, you cannot carry 1000 foot from a school now while walking down the street.

    3) The fees, if charged, need to be minimal. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania only charges $25 for the five-year license. There is no reason at all for the license to cost $100 or $125 for a 4 year license.

    4) Carry in your vehicle should be like in Missouri, Louisiana, and MS, where your vehicle is an extension of your home, with no license required. Penal code 167.31 needs to be repealed as part of a "CCW" bill. You should also be able to carry a firearm onto municipal public transit, which you cannot do right now.

    5) The "CCW" should be a weapons license, and should be explicitly preemptive of all local ordinances regulating weapons other than firearms. Georgia passed this law this year.

    6) A few years from now, push for "constitutional carry". Nebraska only passed concealed carry licensing a few years ago, and now because of a shooting incident in Omaha, there's talk of repealing the requirement next year. That's 5 years after "shall-issue" passed. Not too long of a time, I'd say.

    7) Realize that any bill that passes can be subject to constitutional challenges, including charging fees that are too high. No "deal" in the Legislature cut between Legislative proponents of the law and "wafflers" can ever apply to a court challenges.

    Keep in mind when I propose the above idea, I am a supporter of the idea of not needing a permit to carry either method. Though I think the above "stopgap" proposal would be more effective when (not if) 1000 foot school zones and the vehicle carry provisions were struck down in federal court (John Monroe and Wisconsin Carry's efforts, of course), and we can simply walk away saying "No deal, we'll just keep open carrying until you give us what we want." We cannot and should not be forced to lose any ground due to the fickle sensibilities of legislators. Only forward, not backward.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Only forward, not backward.

    Be assured, there will be NO BACKWARD.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    Only forward, not backward.

    Be assured, there will be NO BACKWARD.
    Good. Keep it up.

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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    Only forward, not backward.

    Be assured, there will be NO BACKWARD.
    +10000

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