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Thread: More academic than reality

  1. #1
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    Seems these days I'm reading many articles where people are convinced
    that a 22magnum is to small a caliber to use for self defense. I own a 22magnum
    pistol and a 380. From what I've learned from various gunsmiths is that
    the 22magnum is more lethal than your other calibers. If I had to carry the
    22magnum for self defense I know for certain that it is not a caliber to laugh at
    and that it will take care of business. I've owned a few small and big caliber pistols
    particularly during my days in the military and found that the 44magnum I had was just to big of a gun to enjoy shooting. The velocity of the 22magnum is pretty potent
    and will travel a pretty good distance. Is there anyone out there who like me
    feels that the 22magnum is under rated by to many who think bigger is better?

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    I am considering some .22 Magnum firearms due to family members needs for low recoil, high capacity weapons in home-based, self-defense scenarios.

    The new Kel-Tec hi-cap .22 mag, Walther models and others are better than harsh words and pillows if it comes to a personal defense situation.

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    i dont really see how a .22mag can compete with a 230gr .45 for defensive purposes.

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    Don't feed the troll.

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    I read something, somewhere, that the .22 Magnum was designed for rifles and not handguns. Therefore, it does not perform well with short barrels.

    I bought a Ruger Single Six with interchangeable cylinders. I tried out the .22 Magnums but now rarely use that cylinder.





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    First of all GaryE,

    We've been swarmed lately with folks suddenly appearing on this board and informing all of us OC'ers about how we're doing it all wrong and we don't know nuthin'.

    So, I read BOTH of your whole two posts, and guess what?

    Both of them sound incredibly familiar. Probably because I've heard them both so many times before. Thousands really. Theyweren't any more true then as they are now.

    But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you are just here to join the rest of us in cameraderie about our RIGHT to open carry, and unlike trolls who normally show up to anagonize us by pointing out the error of our ways, become one of US instead of preaching like THEM.

    I have to admit though, your first two posts seem awfully preachy. Not a good way to win friends and influence people around here.

    So, as I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are here to make friends, I'll disillusion you so you won't continue the bad habit of spreading misinformation. I'll address the falsehoods in your other post in the proper place.

    As for your concern for the .22 magnum....

    The definitive study on wound characteristics was done in a study named "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" by a guy named Urey W. Patrick III by the FBI. (I highly suggest the read for anyone interested in "What caliber for.....") Found here: http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

    The single most important thing in getting a bad guy to stop being a bad guy as quick as possible is the same as good real estate: LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.

    Shot placement is the single most important thing to stop a bad guy from harming you. WHERE you place the shot determines how soon he goes down. Not what firearm you do it with. The closer you get to the central nervous system and major organs (heart, brain, spinal chord, lungs) the faster your bullet of any type takes effect. This bieng said, caliber plays a secondary role. The PERMANENET WOUND CHANNEL is what causes the bad guy to stop, secondarily to how close this permanent wound channel is to a major organ. The BIGGER THE HOLE the FASTER HE STOPS.

    Therefore, I choose to use BOTH aim and caliber to benefit me.

    Lethality of a particular caliber HAS NOTHING TO DO with how effective a self-defense firearm it is.

    Answer me this: .22 magnum might be deadlier than a .45 as far as lethality.....

    ....but what good does this do you in a self defense situaltion RIGHT NOWif it takes thebad guyTWO HOURS to succumb to his wounds?

    If .22's were so instantaneously deadly......wouldn't the cops be trading in their Glocks for Ruger MarkIII's?

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    Your commentspertaining tothe .44 Magnum as a personal defense arm only applies if you are shooting hunting loads.

    Remember that the caliber was designed by Elmer Keith as a hunting round; but the same gun can fire .44 Specials, which have the same ballistic characteristics as the .45 ACP, a big, slow moving bullet. With this caliber, the same gun would be an excellent choice for self-defense.

    Thus, I believe the .44 Magnum revolver is an excellent all around gun.

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    Regardless of the OP's motive, I'm still looking at the PMR .22WMR.

    Beats yelling at an intruder if it comes down to that situation.

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    caliber is a personal choice. I personally carry a .22lr pistol due to the fact that i can position my shots better than other calibers, im not a big guy so due to the lower recoil i get much better placement. It comes down to what you feel comfortable with.

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    Tis better to hit once with a 22, than to miss 6 times with a 44 magnum.

    - All said and done, it's about personal capability, aptitude, what one knows they can handle, and training (either personal or professional).

    - I carry a 45 colt SA. Yet, if needed,I could do some surgical work with a reliable 22. and feel very confident regarding results.


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    id probably lay low with that info....

    i think i read somewhere about it being a bad idea to make your ammo "more deadly" and how it really kills your case (no pun intended ) when it comes down to it in court.

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    I can remember being told 40 years ago that cutting an X into your bullet (to increase the flattening for maxium damage) was illegal.

    Anyone know if that was true (or still might be) in any of the states?

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    this is what i had thought....

    im curious on seeing some citations on this, as well.

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    JTHunter wrote:
    While shot placement with the .22 Mag might be easier, it just doesn't have enough kinetic energy to knock a perp down.* :?
    No normal caliber handgun bullet has the ability to knock down anyone based on kinetic energy alone. Newton's third law applies.

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    no matter what caliber you have a well placed shot to the head, heart or the lungs...DONE DEAL!

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    Deathwing_Kingstar wrote:
    no matter what caliber you have a well placed shot to the head, heart or the lungs...DONE DEAL!
    A lung shot is far from a "done deal" if the perp chooses to ignore the hit. Even a heart shot isn't an instant stopper - I recall reading that there's enough blood (and oxygen) in a person for ~10 seconds of activity after the heart stops.

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    I think the 22 WMR is a fine cartridge if you're looking for a rimfire rifle to pick off small vermin. Out of a handgun, there is nothing impressive about the .22 Mag. Don't get me wrong, yes it will kill, but in no way can it compare to 9mm and up, no scratch that, .32 and up handguns. Unless you just need the small handgun possible, there really is no point in using the .22 Mag for a serious self defense cartridge.

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    So Iask myself if someone were to point a .22 calibre handgun at any of my vital areas would I fear for my life and safety and act accordingly. The answer for me is yes. I would not differentiate at that moment between a .44 Magnum and a .22 short, and I expect my assessment would be similar to most in that regard.So in that respect I agree with those who suggest that one should carry whatone iscomfortable carrying and shooting.

    The best defensive handgun isthe one that is in your possession and ready to fire when you need it regardless of calibre or load type. Are there more effective defensive rounds than .22 Magnum? Absolutely, yes. Carry defensively as it suits you.

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    Yes, I feel all the .22s are underrated.

    Back in 1979, that Israeliguy in Nahariya (Charles Shapiro) used a .22 magnum revolver to shoot a POS intruder (one of several PLO terrorists from Lebanon) first in the chest -- when be shot his way thorugh Shapiro's door --then inthe head. The .22 magnum worked for him and he is alive because of it. His unarmed neighborin the next apartment (Dan Haran ,along with his 2 young daughters), werekilled by other PLO terrorists:

    http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/che-talk/694.html

    And we all know of Mossad (and Israeli Sky Marshals, like Mordechai Rachamim) using the .22LR Beretta (Model 70 or 71?) back in the 70s to good effect.

    IMO, ANY caliber is lethal, even the .22LR.

    It's the shooter, not the caliber. Always has been.

    Just hit your target with it.

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    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    JTHunter wrote:
    While shot placement with the .22 Mag might be easier, it just doesn't have enough kinetic energy to knock a perp down.* :?
    Nor does ANY OTHER ROUND which will leave you standing after firing it.

    SImple Newtonian physics.

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    That's right.



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    my friend is an EMT for San Bernadino county, and he as told me that he has seen enough people shot, no matter the caliber...a bullet in the body is easily leathal.

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    Seems pretty clear, think I'll find that PMR somewhere and give it a try.

    Thanks for the information and POV's.

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    rugerdon wrote:
    I read something, somewhere, that the .22 Magnum was designed for rifles and not handguns. Therefore, it does not perform well with short barrels.

    I bought a Ruger Single Six with interchangeable cylinders. I tried out the .22 Magnums but now rarely use that cylinder.



    It is an older design with fairly slow burning powder. A 22WMR out of a pistol is about on par velocity wise, of a 22LR out of a rifle.

    If you shoot one at dusk you'll understand what I mean, lots of flame.
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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    I am about to embrace the .22WMR. My main interst is rifle, but there will be at least one handgiun in the stable, likely more. As previously stated, shot placement is the most critical issue in a defensive situation. Larger and more powerful calibers just increase your margin of error and the magnitude of the wound channel. Ain't none of them I want to be on the receiving end of. I have read that the .22LR kills more people than any other caliber. If so, it is beacuse they are more common than anythingelse, are inexpensive comparatively. I seriously doubt that most of those kills are quick. Remember though, "killing" is not the sameas "stopping". I know plenty of farmers who kill large lifestock with a .22LR or .22WMR, single point blank shots to the braincase.I will still reach for my .45 if I want to stop someone.
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