Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29

Thread: Man arrested for CC

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,440

    Post imported post

    This story will be on Channel 7 tonight at 11. I'd like to know why the cops even stopped to talk with this man and his friends. Looks like the Wayne County clerk could have a lawsuit coming.

    http://www.wxyz.com/news/story/He-Ha...nJBmXlN5w.cspx

  2. #2
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845

    Post imported post

    Yeah I saw this somewhere else... outrageous
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Waterford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    526

    Post imported post

    well after actually reading the article

    " Somehow the renewal for his CCW was never put into the state computer system used by police to verify information."

    So by their view
    They see that in their computers that the CPL is not valid.
    But they see a valid date on the CPL.
    The computer is the way to VERIFY.
    If someone wanted to make a fake CPL im sure they could, so they go by the computer.
    Officer is holding a cpl that says it is valid but a computer that shows it is false.
    They made the assumption the computer was correct.

    I would also like to know the reason for the stop, but what I picked up was the guy was talking to his employees, so it was a group of people, and the police saw it and asked what they were talking about. Not sure why could be just curiosity, or seeing a group of people in front of a business but they did.

    The man Disclosed that he was carrying a CPL, and gave it to the officers when asked to.
    Which started the issue.
    He was arrested for carrying without a valid CPL, according to the computer.
    I think he will bring it to court
    His CPL will be updated
    The Charge will be removed from his record.
    I don't really see a huge settlement because of the computer showing a wrong date.
    Now if it had shown it WAS valid i think it would be a lot bigger than this is.

    I do think it was a mistake, and I am not saying it was right but if the cops asked the man why his cpl says its valid but the computer does not, the man would have no idea and not have a good enough answer to keep from getting arrested.


    The cops did their job after running the CPL. Prior to that, the stop, no one knows if that was a legit stop yet.

    The Clerks office should get a lawsuit though and a settlement or award should be paid out for the inconvenience


    Just my thoughts


  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post

    Wow! What Cluster *bleep* at the Wayne Co. Clerks office!

    This guy is going to clean their clocks, IMO rightly so.

    Not the Cops fault for verifying but it will be interesting to see what their RS was for the contact in the first place.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Waterford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    526

    Post imported post

    Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:
    Wow! What Cluster *bleep* at the Wayne Co. Clerks office!

    This guy is going to clean their clocks, IMO rightly so.

    Not the Cops fault for verifying but it will be interesting to see what their RS was for the contact in the first place.
    yep cant wait to hear it

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    See what can happen when you hide your rights in your pocket? Shoulda been OC like the good guys.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    stainless1911 wrote:
    See what can happen when you hide your rights in your pocket? Shoulda been OC like the good guys.
    "Robert Keathley says he was just minding his business when Detroit police pulled him over for a routine stop. He offered up that he had a Concealed Pistol License, commonly called a CCW (the old term was"carrying a concealed weapon")."

    Ummmmm....Stainless, he was in a vehicle, hence CC.


  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    I was just messing around.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    stainless1911 wrote:
    I was just messing around.
    Stop that, someone might take you seriously. :P

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alpena, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    148

    Post imported post

    I find it completely appalling that the officer actually thought he was doing a service to the public. The database apparently did not give a "reason" why the CPL was invalid. I could be wrong. But the point is moot! Our right to carry is directly dependent on the accuracy of a database and employees of a bureaucracy dependent on revenue to keep it alive. The CPL license has proven to regulate instead of give freedoms already bought and paid for by our founders. This right is free! If I have the right to OC without a CPL into City Council, how is it that I am considered a violent threat if I throw my shirt over it? It proves we already own the right, but are not trusted with it unless we pay money.

    I want to be there when this patriot defends himself. He needs to plead not guilty. The 2nd Amendment is his gun permit! Any public servant who says different is an enemy of the State. I address this issue of unalienable rights in my latest video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfQ-jQC5SJE

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902

    Post imported post

    Tstainless1911 wrote:
    I was just messing around.

    Seriously, you should not mess around. It's a serious issue, someone needs to be sued, and this is another great reason why the must notify provision should be repealed.

    Your joke is not funny, perhaps you should do something productive like.... Trying to get YOUR CPL back...

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    American Sheepdog wrote:
    I find it completely appalling that the officer actually thought he was doing a service to the public. The database apparently did not give a "reason" why the CPL was invalid. I could be wrong. But the point is moot! Our right to carry is directly dependent on the accuracy of a database and employees of a bureaucracy dependent on revenue to keep it alive. The CPL license has proven to regulate instead of give freedoms already bought and paid for by our founders. This right is free! If I have the right to OC without a CPL into City Council, how is it that I am considered a violent threat if I throw my shirt over it? It proves we already own the right, but are not trusted with it unless we pay money.

    I want to be there when this patriot defends himself. He needs to plead not guilty. The 2nd Amendment is his gun permit! Any public servant who says different is an enemy of the State. I address this issue of unalienable rights in my latest video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfQ-jQC5SJE
    I'm wondering what the outcome would be if this incident involved a Operator's License rather than a CPL. If a LEO ran an OP's and it came back expired but the physical license clearly indicated it was not expired, what would the LEO do at this point? Would the LEO immediately issue a citation, make an arest,and call it a day or would the LEO attempt to clear up the matter, perhaps by requesting a Supervisor?

  13. #13
    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lennon Michigan, ,
    Posts
    533

    Post imported post

    stainless1911 wrote:
    See what can happen when you hide your rights in your pocket? Shoulda been OC like the
    good guys.
    isn't your cpl currently suspended for concealing in a bar?

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alpena, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    148

    Post imported post

    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    American Sheepdog wrote:
    I find it completely appalling that the officer actually thought he was doing a service to the public. The database apparently did not give a "reason" why the CPL was invalid. I could be wrong. But the point is moot! Our right to carry is directly dependent on the accuracy of a database and employees of a bureaucracy dependent on revenue to keep it alive. The CPL license has proven to regulate instead of give freedoms already bought and paid for by our founders. This right is free! If I have the right to OC without a CPL into City Council, how is it that I am considered a violent threat if I throw my shirt over it? It proves we already own the right, but are not trusted with it unless we pay money.

    I want to be there when this patriot defends himself. He needs to plead not guilty. The 2nd Amendment is his gun permit! Any public servant who says different is an enemy of the State. I address this issue of unalienable rights in my latest video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfQ-jQC5SJE
    I'm wondering what the outcome would be if this incident involved a Operator's License rather than a CPL. If a LEO ran an OP's and it came back expired but the physical license clearly indicated it was not expired, what would the LEO do at this point? Would the LEO immediately issue a citation, make an arest,and call it a day or would the LEO attempt to clear up the matter, perhaps by requesting a Supervisor?
    Reasonable doubt! It would seem to any reasonable person...officers included, that there is surely a problem with the database info "if" there apparently is no specific reason given as to why the license was invalid. I have dealt with this scenario as an officer and I simply forwarded the individual to go to the licensing division and settle the matter. Without evidence of a crime, or (RAS), or willful negligence, the liberty is attached to the Citizen. As to what any given officer might do in this scenario is up for question. An officer makes a determination on a certain subject based on their knowledge of the law, "or" with internal policy issued by the Sheriff or Chief. The Chief recieves the bulk of his/her internal policy directly from the Mayor, who is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the City. The Sheriff gets his/her policy directly from the voters, who, will not reelect him/her to another term if they violate the people's trust and wishes.
    Great question brother!

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alpena, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    148

    Post imported post

    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    stainless1911 wrote:
    See what can happen when you hide your rights in your pocket? Shoulda been OC like the
    good guys.
    isn't your cpl currently suspended for concealing in a bar?
    Again...how much more of a direct and imminent threat are we as law abiding citizens if we throw our shirt over our exposed sidearm? Are we more armed than before? Personally, I have yet to find a shirt that has ever murdered anyone!


  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alpena, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    148

    Post imported post

    By concealing a sidearm in a bar, we are an enemy of the State and a direct danger to the public. This is what the law says when it tells us we are not "trusted" to conceal in a bar. So, in essence, our CPL license does not grant us true liberty. It's a privilege granted to only those who can afford it. Our government does not trust us and it never will, which is why we keep seeing our Civil Liberties getting flushed down the drain by being forced to pay the government for a right they do not own in the first place. This should be a wakeup call to the people to ask their candidates the questions that are not being asked. Is the 2nd Amendment settled law or not?

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post





    Thanks the reporter doesn't mention "traffic stop" in her video makes it sound as if he was standing outside talking to friends, hence the confusion. Lesson learned "Always read the fine print".
    __________________________________________________ __________________


    SpringerXDacp
    Regular Member
    [img]images/avatars/28.jpg[/img]

    Joined:Fri May 12th, 2006 Location:stainless1911 wrote: [/b]
    See what can happen when you hide your rights in your pocket? Shoulda been OC like the good guys.
    "Robert Keathley says he was just minding his business when Detroit police pulled him over for a routine stop. He offered up that he had a Concealed Pistol License, commonly called a CCW (the old term was"carrying a concealed weapon")."

    Ummmmm....Stainless, he was in a vehicle, hence CC.

    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    109

    Post imported post

    SpringerXDacpwrote: I'm wondering what the outcome would be if this incident involved a Operator's License rather than a CPL. If a LEO ran an OP's and it came back expired but the physical license clearly indicated it was not expired, what would the LEO do at this point? Would the LEO immediately issue a citation, make an arest,and call it a day or would the LEO attempt to clear up the matter, perhaps by requesting a Supervisor?
    I can tell you that it has likely happened.I took my CDL course in WI where I established a temporary residency, then transferred it to Michigan when I returned home. About a year and one-half later, I took it with me fishing in the river with my fishing license in a zip-lock bag and lost it. Went to the SoS (miserable place) and they had no record I ever had a license when I went to apply for a replacement. I had to prove that I've lived here for so long, bank statements, SS card, phone bills, credit card bills, etc. It worried me quite a bit because I had lost it during the time I was waiting for my CPL to be approved. I stopped at the County Clerk's and asked if the whole deal would cause any problems, and they assured me it wouldn't. They even had a copy of my license, but the SoS that issues them couldn't give me a replacement.

    In the end, I had to re-transfer my license from WI, but still got my CPL. It was a convenient $190 for the State of Michigan instead of the $40 it would have cost me to replace the CDL and fishing license.

    The people at the Secretary of State are my LEAST favorite people to deal with. I'd rather be pulled over by the over-zealous state cop that treated me like I was trafficking drugs than deal with the low-lifes at SoS who seem to forget they work for us.

    In the end, it's all about money. If any of you find my license in the Kalamazoo River, please let me know. I'm sure someone will, someday.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    SNIP
    The people at the Secretary of State are my LEAST favorite people to deal with. I'd rather be pulled over by the over-zealous state cop that treated me like I was trafficking drugs than deal with the low-lifes at SoS who seem to forget they work for us.

    In the end, it's all about money. If any of you find my license in the Kalamazoo River, please let me know. I'm sure someone will, someday.
    Think it's bad now, think what it will be like if/when we have to get are CPL's through them. :?

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Waterford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    526

    Post imported post

    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    stainless1911 wrote:
    See what can happen when you hide your rights in your pocket? Shoulda been OC like the
    good guys.
    isn't your cpl currently suspended for concealing in a bar?
    That is not why, go troll somewhere else

  21. #21
    Regular Member Mosnar87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    South Haven, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    118

    Post imported post

    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    stainless1911 wrote:
    See what can happen when you hide your rights in your pocket? Shoulda been OC like the
    good guys.
    isn't your cpl currently suspended for concealing in a bar?
    Kyle, his CPL was suspended for "concealed carry in a PFZ" specifically a playground attached to a church\school.

    Not a bar.

    Also, this charge was based purely on one witness, who claimed he covered his gun.
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."
    —John F. Kennedy

    "If a man neglects to enforce his rights, he cannot complain if, after a while, the law follows his example."
    —Oliver Wendell Holmes

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alpena, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    148

    Post imported post

    Correction! I did not write the comment that has my title in front of it. I responded to it actually. Just thought I'd clarify! No big!

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alpena, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    148

    Post imported post

    Mosnar87 wrote:
    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    stainless1911 wrote:
    See what can happen when you hide your rights in your pocket? Shoulda been OC like the
    good guys.
    isn't your cpl currently suspended for concealing in a bar?
    Kyle, his CPL was suspended for "concealed carry in a PFZ" specifically a playground attached to a churchschool.

    Not a bar.

    Also, this charge was based purely on one witness, who claimed he covered his gun.
    Interesting! So, if we have a CPL, it can actually convict us if the wind blows our shirt over the gun unnoticed, or someone does it against our knowledge (a child possibly). What if we have to reach for something and our shirt comes untucked and covers the gun? This CPL is BS! I say get rid of it! We don't need it! We already have the right.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,440

    Post imported post

    I would strongly advise any and all Wayne county CPL holders to call the county clerk and verify your CPL status is updated properly. They've already proven they can't be trusted to do the job WE pay them for.

  25. #25
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    942

    Post imported post

    scot623 wrote:
    I would strongly advise any and all Wayne county CPL holders to call the county clerk and verify your CPL status is updated properly. They've already proven they can't be trusted to do the job WE pay them for.
    Great point/post!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •