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Thread: Sierra Vista Mall - No Weapons Allowed or No OC

  1. #1
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    "Excuse me sir"

    I turnedto findtwo Sierra Vista mall security and male and female, "Yes, what I can do for you".

    "Are you law enforcement?"

    “No" I responded

    "Weapons are not allowed in the mall" I asked if they where aware that AZ law allows for OC. "Yes, but this is private property and the management does not allow weapons in the mall”. Since I was at the checkout of Boot Barn I asked if would be ok to finish paying and I would leave the mall.

    "That fine" she responded. I will add that both of the security people were very polite and professional at all times.

    I mentioned to the woman running the checkout at Boot Barn that I have carried in the mall a number of times; her reply was that the mall was “Cracking down” on OC.

    So I finished paying and left the mall without further incident.

    Add one more to the list of businesses that I’ll not patronize, nor will my wife, and they’ll miss her money a lot more than mine.

    I’ll be drafting a letter to the mall management at the local office;

    The Mall at Sierra Vista 2200 El Mercado Loop Sierra Vista, Arizona 85635 ph. 520.452.0011 and the national office ofGeneral Growth Properties.

    The property was not posted, but since I was asked to leave that is a moot point.



    Steve
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    General Growth Properties is headquartered in Schit-cagg-oo and owns/operates several major Malls in Arizona. All are posted "No Weapons" in the Code Of Conduct sigs at main entrances.

    All use unarmed Mall Ninjas for security.

    I know many people who CC (Illegally) in the Mall.

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    The mall is not posted NO WEAPONS.

    I have carried in there a number of times...oh well.



    Steve
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    .45acp wrote:
    The mall is not posted NO WEAPONS.

    I have carried in there a number of times...oh well.

    *

    Steve
    Look for the Code of Conduct sign at Mall entrance. Probably on the business marque, or on a portable stand up sign.

    Believe me -- PPG is anti-gun.

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    The verbiage is there.

    A friend of mine who OC's by necessity (he's out of state and has not gotten a CCW yet) got hustled out of the mall by security, so the next time I went (concealed) I checked.

    The exterior entrances are NOT posted in any way. However, there is a tiny, tiny sign (maybe 12x8" in total) inside the doors that have one little bullet point in 12pt text that says "No weapons ... ... " verbiage. Technically the sign is not "legal" so I have no problem carrying concealed there.

    NOTE TO OCers: DON'T tell the idiots at the mall their sign is not legal or they will change it.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    I have been thinking about the almost universal weapons bans at malls across America.

    Bear with me here.

    If you or I rent an apartment and do not sign away our rights in the lease agreement, then we retain the right to Keep and Bear Arms in our apartment.

    Ok, so the stores in these malls rent or lease their space.

    What I'm getting at is this, in addition to putting pressure on the Mall owners to respect our rights, how effective would it be to write the tenants and see if they can put pressure on their landlord? Perhaps if they can convince the Mall owners that they are losing money due to Mall Policy running off customers, then the Mall itself may change the policy.

    It is worth a shot, no pun intended!

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    I have a personal cure for malls... I don't patronize 'em.

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    Same exact thing happened to me awhile back, they asked me to leave, or leave the gun in the car, so naturally i never went back.

    Whats the point of that anyway? And whats the point of unarmed guards?
    they dont even have mace or anything, and i'll bet i can out run all of them.


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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Unarmed security... in an armed to the teeth state... in a close to theborder town. I see some disconnect and disparity here...

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    IANAL, but from what I understand, sign or not, it's not illegal to carry on private property where it's posted, except for the properly postedrestaurants that serve alcohol. It is however, illegal to not leave private propertyif you are asked to.

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    Notso wrote:
    IANAL, but from what I understand, sign or not, it's not illegal to carry on private property where it's posted, except for the properly postedrestaurants that serve alcohol. It is however, illegal to not leave private propertyif you are asked to.
    IANAL myself, but I believe you are correct...besides, it does no good to argue with security once you are asked to leave,citingprivate property and managment policy. They probably expect a confrontation and rude words....being politeand understanding that theyare doing the job as mandated my mall management goes a long way. The last thing we as a group want is for security and people of the public in general to feel (I hate thet word "feel" how do you "feel" about this? makes me want to throw up) intimidated approaching us. If that is the case, the LEO's will be called out of hand.
    The last thing the OC group needs is a reputation for loud bad mouthing during one of these encounters.

    One other thought; Gecko45 could be working the SV mall....then you'd be in trouble.:what:



    Steve

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    I OC at that mall. They did the same thing with me and asked if I was LEO. I told them yes, and they asked that I displayed my badge while Open carrying and I told them no, that would make me a target, then got on with my shopping. I let them know that many of my fellow LEOs do the same so dont hassle them as well.
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    It's so stupid, I just got my ccw, and just picked up my Sig 229 40.cal, I go to the mall all the time, and if I can get away with it cc. They want to stop us, but how are they going to stop a BG when he walks in shooting up the place.

    I was pro gun in general, but now that I can oc or cc I really hate that gun laws only effect GOOD PEOPLE, people like use who don't break the laws.

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    Gary599 wrote:

    I was pro gun in general, but now that I can oc or cc I really hate that gun laws only effect GOOD PEOPLE, people like use who don't break the laws.
    That is really the crux of the entire gun law debate....Laws only effect the law abding citizen.....the banditios don't care.



    Steve
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    .45acp wrote:
    "
    So I finished paying and left the mall without further incident.




    Steve
    You are much more tolerant than me. I would have dropped my stuff on the spot and walked out.(note, this is NOT a flame)





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    I hate going into malls anyway, especially ones that are not self defense friendly

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    mFonz77 wrote:
    The verbiage is there.

    A friend of mine who OC's by necessity (he's out of state and has not gotten a CCW yet) got hustled out of the mall by security, so the next time I went (concealed) I checked.

    The exterior entrances are NOT posted in any way. However, there is a tiny, tiny sign (maybe 12x8" in total) inside the doors that have one little bullet point in 12pt text that says "No weapons ... ... " verbiage. Technically the sign is not "legal" so I have no problem carrying concealed there.

    NOTE TO OCers: DON'T tell the idiots at the mall their sign is not legal or they will change it.
    Not to single you out, but in the interest of accurate information being seen, can you show what statute makes the sign 'not legal'?

    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...mp;DocType=ARS

    "13-1502. Criminal trespass in the third degree; classification

    A. A person commits criminal trespass in the third degree by:

    1. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on any real property after a reasonable request to leave by the owner or any other person having lawful control over such property, or reasonable notice prohibiting entry."

    Unfortunately, I see no defition in that section for 'reasonable notice', and can't say I'd want to test those waters myself.

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    >meso.40< wrote:
    Same exact thing happened to me awhile back, they asked me to leave, or leave the gun in the car, so naturally i never went back.

    Whats the point of that anyway? And whats the point of unarmed guards?
    they dont even have mace or anything, and i'll bet i can out run all of them.
    They're much like airport security. They give the ILLUSION of safety and security. No more, no less. It makes the sheeple (and lawyers) all warm and fuzzy, hehe.

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    rscottie wrote:
    I have been thinking about the almost universal weapons bans at malls across America.

    Bear with me here.

    If you or I rent an apartment and do not sign away our rights in the lease agreement, then we retain the right to Keep and Bear Arms in our apartment.

    Ok, so the stores in these malls rent or lease their space.

    What I'm getting at is this, in addition to putting pressure on the Mall owners to respect our rights, how effective would it be to write the tenants and see if they can put pressure on their landlord? Perhaps if they can convince the Mall owners that they are losing money due to Mall Policy running off customers, then the Mall itself may change the policy.

    It is worth a shot, no pun intended!
    I love that thought process, but I'd bet large sums of money that the tenants in this case do indeed sign away their ability to allow firearms. It could be something specific in their lease terms, or something as simple as a 'we agree to abide by general mall policy' type wording. If not, however, trying to get the businesses involved certainly can't make the prohibition more prohibit-ish than it already is =)

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    I couldn't help but wonder why you went ahead and SPENT YOUR MONEY with them, knowing the situation.
    You could have just as easily informed them you AND your money are leaving, never to return.
    For MY convenience, MY Money, My Gas and MY TIME, I did not feel like driving another 45 minutes to buy a $5.00 item. Should be simple enough to understand.



    Thanks for the advice.
    Steve


    "Life is hard, its even harder when you are stupid!"

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    Thoreau,

    You are correct sir. There is nothing in the AZ statutes that define a "legal" sign, and I agree it is a very grey area as to whether or not the 11-pt font and one bullet point put in with all the rest would constitute a "reasonable" request.

    However, as demonstrated by posters here and my own acquaintance, it appears the policy of the SV Mall is simply to politely inform OCers and ask that they remove their weapon from the premises.

    I would presume, if the OCer refused, that the sign may or may not be pointed out to them, and eventually the police called.

    I further presume, that the SV Mall has a VERY well-constructed CYA policy in place: (bear with me here)

    A) If a GOOD SHOOT occurs by a licensed CCWer (or even unlicensed, for that matter), then the SV Mall can exculpate itself from any wrongful death crap from the victim's family by saying "Oh, lookie, we're posted!" (Technically they are, and it's just really tiny). It can furthermore withhold pressing any charges for carrying without a license as it's private property so the decision to press property charges is theirs alone, most likely citing that the sign is so G-D small that no one in their right mind would go out of their way to read it when entering the mall (Sit there for 15 minutes some time...see if ANYONE even GLANCES at the sign....no one even knows it's there.)

    B) If a BAD SHOOT occurs, in which case wrongful death, homicide, and any number of civil liability suits would be brought forth, the mall can also say "Oh look, we're posted" and countersue the bad shooter.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    .45acp wrote:
    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    I couldn't help but wonder why you went ahead and SPENT YOUR MONEY with them, knowing the situation.
    You could have just as easily informed them you AND your money are leaving, never to return.
    For MY convenience, MY Money, My Gas and MY TIME, I did not feel like driving another 45 minutes to buy a $5.00 item. Should be simple enough to understand.



    Thanks for the advice.
    Those who don't live here fail to comprehend distance along with the 'nothingness' from point to point. Particularly those who live in the cities and burbs.


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    .45acp wrote:
    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    I couldn't help but wonder why you went ahead and SPENT YOUR MONEY with them, knowing the situation.
    You could have just as easily informed them you AND your money are leaving, never to return.
    For MY convenience, MY Money, My Gas and MY TIME, I did not feel like driving another 45 minutes to buy a $5.00 item. Should be simple enough to understand.



    Thanks for the advice.
    Cool - you just paid for another 'no gun' sign.

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    Crossfire Jedi wrote:
    .45acp wrote:
    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    I couldn't help but wonder why you went ahead and SPENT YOUR MONEY with them, knowing the situation.
    You could have just as easily informed them you AND your money are leaving, never to return.
    For MY convenience, MY Money, My Gas and MY TIME, I did not feel like driving another 45 minutes to buy a $5.00 item. Should be simple enough to understand.



    Thanks for the advice.
    Cool - you just paid for another 'no gun' sign.
    You should work on not posting silly suppositions, grow up and realize that the world does not revolve around you or your opinion. Perhaps a little more work with Yoda and you’ll find the path. But perhaps not.

    If you had even bothered to read the thread, you would realize the sign was already there.

    Geez...kids now days.
    Steve


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    Before we begin hurling insults at each other, may I make a suggestion to all?

    How about, we all join the AZCDL, and begin to help change Arizona law so that we can OC/CC in an Arizona Mall, regardless of which out of state firm owns it.

    There is a Tucson area gun show this weekend.

    An AZCDL annual basic membership is $30, but $10 discount if one signed up at the gun show.

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