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Sierra Vista Mall - No Weapons Allowed or No OC

.45acp

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Jun 18, 2009
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Salt Lake City, UT
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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
I couldn't help but wonder why you went ahead and SPENT YOUR MONEY with them, knowing the situation.
You could have just as easily informed them you AND your money are leaving, never to return.

For MY convenience, MY Money, My Gas and MY TIME, I did not feel like driving another 45 minutes to buy a $5.00 item. Should be simple enough to understand.



Thanks for the advice.:uhoh:
 

mFonz77

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Nov 7, 2009
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265
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Sierra Vista, AZ
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Thoreau,

You are correct sir. There is nothing in the AZ statutes that define a "legal" sign, and I agree it is a very grey area as to whether or not the 11-pt font and one bullet point put in with all the rest would constitute a "reasonable" request.

However, as demonstrated by posters here and my own acquaintance, it appears the policy of the SV Mall is simply to politely inform OCers and ask that they remove their weapon from the premises.

I would presume, if the OCer refused, that the sign may or may not be pointed out to them, and eventually the police called.

I further presume, that the SV Mall has a VERY well-constructed CYA policy in place: (bear with me here)

A) If a GOOD SHOOT occurs by a licensed CCWer (or even unlicensed, for that matter), then the SV Mall can exculpate itself from any wrongful death crap from the victim's family by saying "Oh, lookie, we're posted!" (Technically they are, and it's just really tiny). It can furthermore withhold pressing any charges for carrying without a license as it's private property so the decision to press property charges is theirs alone, most likely citing that the sign is so G-D small that no one in their right mind would go out of their way to read it when entering the mall (Sit there for 15 minutes some time...see if ANYONE even GLANCES at the sign....no one even knows it's there.)

B) If a BAD SHOOT occurs, in which case wrongful death, homicide, and any number of civil liability suits would be brought forth, the mall can also say "Oh look, we're posted" and countersue the bad shooter.
 

Sonora Rebel

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Aug 6, 2008
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Gone
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.45acp wrote:
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
I couldn't help but wonder why you went ahead and SPENT YOUR MONEY with them, knowing the situation.
You could have just as easily informed them you AND your money are leaving, never to return.

For MY convenience, MY Money, My Gas and MY TIME, I did not feel like driving another 45 minutes to buy a $5.00 item. Should be simple enough to understand.



Thanks for the advice.:uhoh:
Those who don't live here fail to comprehend distance along with the 'nothingness' from point to point. Particularly those who live in the cities and burbs.
 

Crossfire Jedi

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Jan 15, 2009
Messages
274
Location
Chandler, Arizona, USA
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.45acp wrote:
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
I couldn't help but wonder why you went ahead and SPENT YOUR MONEY with them, knowing the situation.
You could have just as easily informed them you AND your money are leaving, never to return.

For MY convenience, MY Money, My Gas and MY TIME, I did not feel like driving another 45 minutes to buy a $5.00 item. Should be simple enough to understand.



Thanks for the advice.:uhoh:
Cool - you just paid for another 'no gun' sign.
 

.45acp

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Salt Lake City, UT
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Crossfire Jedi wrote:
.45acp wrote:
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
I couldn't help but wonder why you went ahead and SPENT YOUR MONEY with them, knowing the situation.
You could have just as easily informed them you AND your money are leaving, never to return.

For MY convenience, MY Money, My Gas and MY TIME, I did not feel like driving another 45 minutes to buy a $5.00 item. Should be simple enough to understand.



Thanks for the advice.:uhoh:
Cool - you just paid for another 'no gun' sign.

You should work on not posting silly suppositions, grow up and realize that the world does not revolve around you or your opinion. Perhaps a little more work with Yoda and you’ll find the path. But perhaps not.

If you had even bothered to read the thread, you would realize the sign was already there.

Geez...kids now days.:banghead:
 

GWbiker

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Before we begin hurling insults at each other, may I make a suggestion to all?

How about, we all join the AZCDL, and begin to help change Arizona law so that we can OC/CC in an Arizona Mall, regardless of which out of state firm owns it.

There is a Tucson area gun show this weekend.

An AZCDL annual basic membership is $30, but $10 discount if one signed up at the gun show.
 

Crossfire Jedi

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274
Location
Chandler, Arizona, USA
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.45acp wrote:
Crossfire Jedi wrote:
.45acp wrote:
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
I couldn't help but wonder why you went ahead and SPENT YOUR MONEY with them, knowing the situation.
You could have just as easily informed them you AND your money are leaving, never to return.

For MY convenience, MY Money, My Gas and MY TIME, I did not feel like driving another 45 minutes to buy a $5.00 item. Should be simple enough to understand.



Thanks for the advice.:uhoh:
Cool - you just paid for another 'no gun' sign.

You should work on not posting silly suppositions, grow up and realize that the world does not revolve around you or your opinion. Perhaps a little more work with Yoda and you’ll find the path. But perhaps not.

If you had even bothered to read the thread, you would realize the sign was already there.

Geez...kids now days.:banghead:
Not an opinion, a fact. You knowingly gave them money knowing there stance...then had the nerve to come to this website and complain...very odd cat.

And I did state "another" sign....guess you need to read kiddo
 

mFonz77

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Nov 7, 2009
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265
Location
Sierra Vista, AZ
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I agree. AZCDL is great and I have no problem sending them $40 bucks each year. (For $40, if you join at an event, you get a Sustaining membership and a free t-shirt). In fact I went into the SV Mall this weekend to see Iron Man 2 and saw one of the shirts...and sir if you were concealing you did a damn fine job of it...even I couldn't make you. Carry on.
 

Crossfire Jedi

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Jan 15, 2009
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Chandler, Arizona, USA
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Hey GWBiker I think you know me by now...110% AZCDL, got the sticker on my Jeep! The only thing I haven't done yet is assist at a gun show. I will try to do that.

Hey .45ACP, I think I did come across a little strong and it could have been handled differently for that I apologize. It is good to come to this site and let people know where people are anti-gun. In your case, I was confused as to why you would give them money in the first place and then come here to discuss. That being said, I don't know all the circumstances and shouldn't have judged you.
 

.45acp

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Jun 18, 2009
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Salt Lake City, UT
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Phoenix David wrote:
My two cents.

Should have dropped what you were going to buy on the counter and walked out. You should not have given them your money.

I pretty will covered that above....Thanks for your opinion:uhoh:When you live in the big city you have a few more opinions than SV.



Steve
 

.45acp

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Salt Lake City, UT
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Crossfire Jedi wrote:
Hey .45ACP, I think I did come across a little strong and it could have been handled differently for that I apologize. It is good to come to this site and let people know where people are anti-gun. In your case, I was confused as to why you would give them money in the first place and then come here to discuss. That being said, I don't know all the circumstances and shouldn't have judged you.
Crossfire, No worries.
 

Phoenix David

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Glendale, Arizona, USA
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.45acp wrote:
Phoenix David wrote:
My two cents.

Should have dropped what you were going to buy on the counter and walked out. You should not have given them your money.

I pretty will covered that above....Thanks for your opinion:uhoh:When you live in the big city you have a few more opinions than SV.



Steve
Yeah sometimes you got to do what you got to do...
 

ixtow

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Nov 25, 2006
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Suwannee County, FL
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rscottie wrote:
If you or I rent an apartment and do not sign away our rights in the lease agreement, then we retain the right to Keep and Bear Arms in our apartment.
In most places, your Constitutional Rights cannot be contracted away from you. Even if you sign such an agreement. In fact, in most places, the very drafting of such a document would be cause for a tort. Attempting to deprive a person of their freedom by contract is the very definition of slavery.

A lease grants you rights to the property. As a paying tenant, in most places, your rights trump theirs until you're not paying anymore. They cannot rescind the Constitution just because you live there. Property Rights apply, but they apply to the tenant. Usually...
 

XIII

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Jun 13, 2012
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1
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Sierra Vista
The verbiage is there.

The exterior entrances are NOT posted in any way. However, there is a tiny, tiny sign (maybe 12x8" in total) inside the doors that have one little bullet point in 12pt text that says "No weapons ... ... " verbiage. Technically the sign is not "legal" so I have no problem carrying concealed there.

NOTE TO OCers: DON'T tell the idiots at the mall their sign is not legal or they will change it.

Arizona State Statute dictates that on Private Property (Which the mall is), the owner can decide if fire-arms are allowed inside.
It is the same in the eyes of the state as me telling you that you cannot bring a weapon in to my home.

Signs aren't even required to be posted at the Mall, but, they are...
...but that note, the "Mall Ninjas" as they've been referred to, have the ability, technically, to enforce any Code that the Management staff dictates to them, such as no bandannas, people playing instruments in the common areas, customers not being allowed to use Employee Access-ways, and so forth.


What irritates me more than anything else is that while I carry a firearm, and have done so for many years, that people complain when the owner of PRIVATE PROPERTY decides that no weapons are allowed under their roof.

Nobody is saying you can't own, or carry a weapon... just don't carry one on Private Property.

Instead of flaming me about stating fact, call DPS, or your local Police Department.
Don't hate on the rules... hate on people not wanting to follow them.
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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The last prior post in this thread was made over 2 years ago.

Welcome to the forum - don't think anyone disagrees with the issue of private property rules.
 

NMOCr

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May 5, 2012
Messages
41
Location
NM
If the govt can require a business to abide by the Americans for Disability Act, then they should also require businesses to allow citizens to OC/CC when they are in their business during business hours.
 

Elycion

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Mar 18, 2011
Messages
16
Location
Celina, TX
If the govt can require a business to abide by the Americans for Disability Act, then they should also require businesses to allow citizens to OC/CC when they are in their business during business hours.

That's Americans With Disabilities Act, and it is enforceable because the disabled are a protected class. In no State or Federal law that I am aware of is "Law Abiding Citizen" a protected class. The irony of that is a topic for a wholly different thread. :p
 

Grapeshot

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If the govt can require a business to abide by the Americans for Disability Act, then they should also require businesses to allow citizens to OC/CC when they are in their business during business hours.

That's Americans With Disabilities Act, and it is enforceable because the disabled are a protected class. In no State or Federal law that I am aware of is "Law Abiding Citizen" a protected class. The irony of that is a topic for a wholly different thread. :p

Agreed - those that participate in the 2A by exercising their right to carry are not a protected class.
 
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