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  1. #1
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    Ladies and Gentlemen:

    I have a note from one of my Examiner.com readers, obviously a WA resident, who offers a very well-thought-out, sincere comment, and now is your opportunity to either shine like a star, or stink like an ogre, with a well-thought-out reply, or something less.

    How you reply will speak volumes more about you than about Ruby.

    Ruby says:
    Thanks,Dave, for getting back to me. As I said, I am opposed to open carry. I am a gun owner and I respect other people's opinions and practices. I am opposed to it because it is not customary in our society at the present time, and it does scare some people. And it is not without some limitations, as you described in your book Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities. We will not convert people who are on the fence about gun rights by scaring them. The other reason is that I do not want everyone to know that I have a firearm. Some criminal may just decide that he will try to take it away from me. I also think that for some gun owners, not all, but some, it's an ego trip. Look at me, I have a gun. I would be interested in hearing what the rest of you think about it and if you have carried openly, what your experience with it has been.
    May 3, 7:45 PM

  2. #2
    69Charger
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    I personalty have no problem with people expressing there OPINION. With the growing movement in the gun community towards the Idea of open carry, it is only a matter of time until this will become common in our society. Time will tell.
    I agree with her on the idea that some may want to only open carry to reach out for some kind of attention or to give them an EGO TRIP. They are the ones that open carry in the winter with only a T shirt on in a snow storm. Weather permitting open carry in my way of doing things is how I approach it. I will not and do not go out of my way to carry openly to only make a point. This, open carry, in MY OPINION, needs to be brought out into society as non aggressively, understanding and conscious of the feelings of the non gun owning people. You get more bees with honey then you do with vinegar. To force it on to people will, in my opinion, only slow things down.

    Well you asked, so I put in my 2cents worth. This is the internut ya know.
    Remember that this is only my opinion on things and you have yours.
    I would be interested in your opinion but not in any bashing of mine.
    Dave


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    am opposed to it because it is not customary in our society at the present time, and it does scare some people.
    civil rights marches were not customary and scared people too.



  4. #4
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Open carry brings gun ownership out of the closet. It shows your friends and neighbors, your state and your country that you are not afraid of taking on the responsibility of protecting yourself and the ones you love from evil. Open carry is a visible expression of our natural right to self preservation. Open carry makes a statement that we are not afraid to stand up to the “politically correct” ideology that has created a nanny state, where the government is there to help us if we just do as they say, and a pox on anyone that disagrees.
    When you open carry you are saying to the world, I’m my own man, I’m able and willing to defend myself, my family, and if need be my community, my state, and my country. It also states that I’m willing to stand up and speak truth to authority. It’s shameful that we as law abiding citizens must stand up to authority, the very authority that we have empowered, when questioned about our lawful right to openly carry a firearm. But stand up we must. The open carry of a firearm speaks volumes and it’s says much more than just open carry.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Squeak's Avatar
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    I have some concerns on this 'people are scared' mentality. I OC everywhere I go. The people that have said anything to me has always been positive. I have OCed in the very heart of 'Liberal Land , WA' and I don't think that anyone was scared. No mother grabbed her kids and fled.There are some that are 'in your face'. I don't like that attitude. When I profile them, it doesn't surprise me. I carry my weapon the same as I would carry my wallet.



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    Mostly, for me, it is just convenient. I open carry when I am out afield, with my flock of sheep & all. (Yes, I am a Luddite). Anyway, it is just easier to go from field to hardware store, lumber yard, whatever, straight away. I don't see a need to go into the house, change holsters, go to the store, come home, go into the house, change holsters, go back outside to work. Just saves me steps.

    Another thing. It isn't about NEED. I just want to do it for ease. Nothing evil, nothing earth shatteringly important, doesn't raise my ego, it's just easier. It is just about what I do for my own comfort.

    In today's world, we spend a lot of time forcing others to be our version of "good" whether that be in the food industry or just in general thought processes. Fast food is evil, trans-fats are bad, Alar spray is bad for us, don't use this word, can't read that book in school....

    Perhaps, in the movie "Demolition Man" the character played by Denis Leary said it the best: "I'm the enemy because I like to think. I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy that could sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs or the side order of gravy fries? I want high cholesterol. I would eat bacon and butter and buckets of cheese. Okay? I want to smoke Cuban cigars the size of Cincinnati in the nonsmoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green Jell-O all over my body reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I might suddenly feel the need to. Okay, pal?"





  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I have a good freind who think the very same way, he has learned to accept me and my practice open carry. We have discussed this very subject and have come to realize that many of his rationalizations against open carry are self perceptions and born out of his own leariness about the practice. He has after much discussion and research has pretty much admitted the same.

    Not to be offensive to anybody or to infer anything, but there really is only a small minority who are offended by open carry. I live in a town where growing up many were very against black folks moving in or being around them. The only thing that changed this fear or dislike was by the "brave" families who endured several years of racism and hateful speach. Something that I would now hope my town has gotten over. It is the same with open carry, we cannot let the fears of a few, set precedence and take the forefront of making "cultural" or legislative policy.

    I also have had this argument with my freind and others about criminals taking your weapon if they see it and have found that after research that it is simply unfounded and there is no evidence to back that up. Actually the times OC'ers have to use their weapons appears to be less than those who choose to CC. This makes me conclude that it acts much more as a detterant than something that ads to the volatility of a situation. Myself and several other members of the Open Carry site have had experiences that seem to prove this. My favorite analogy is the predator's first choice is the deer without the antlers.

    I OC (open carry) practically everyday. I go to the bank, pick up my kids from school, grocery shop, go to State and County buildings on business and have for the most part encountered support for my self and open carry and I live in a very liberal town/county. Another Friend and I had coffee at Starbucks and even got into freindly conversations with local Deputies and the fact we were OCing didn't even seem to phase them.

    I have noticed also that I used to be engaged alot with curious folks and even those who didn't like guns, they didn't freak out and saw the reason why I would choose to possess one. I don't want to leave the impression that there hasnever been any negative encounters, but these have been very very rare. Over time these engagements have diminished and my community have, like the black families that moved in, overcome there fears and have grown accustomed to those of us in my county who choose to excercise their legally protected rights.

    I could on and on and start pointing out examples of this in the past, Women's suffrage, civil rights, etc. but end on the importance of perserverance in fighting for our rights.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Ruby says:
    Thanks,Dave, for getting back to me. As I said, I am opposed to open carry. I am a gun owner and I respect other people's opinions and practices. I am opposed to it because it is not customary in our society at the present time, and it does scare some people. And it is not without some limitations, as you described in your book Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities. We will not convert people who are on the fence about gun rights by scaring them. The other reason is that I do not want everyone to know that I have a firearm. Some criminal may just decide that he will try to take it away from me. I also think that for some gun owners, not all, but some, it's an ego trip. Look at me, I have a gun. I would be interested in hearing what the rest of you think about it and if you have carried openly, what your experience with it has been.
    May 3, 7:45 PM

    As a disclaimer I am someone that conceal carry's but on the other hand I am not opposed to others expressing and practicing a legal right to OC.

    There are many arguments to OC/CC. For me I want everyone to carry. How you legally do it is up to you. Freedom isn't always going to please everyone. Simply look at the 1st Amendment and how it's expressed. But Freedom is what we have here in this Great Land we call The United States of America. As a gun owner we need to support each other not divide as we have many "attackers."

    I'm sorry it makes you feel uncomfortable and I'm sorry you feel it scares the folks on the fence - for me it clearly shows freedom and also reminds folks that personal freedom is a personal choice. A right not to be infringed and a right that should be practiced, if one so chooses.

    Young Kim, NRA Life Member, NRA Certified Instructor
    Young Kim, NRA Endowment Member
    NRA Certified Instructor (pistol)
    NRA Range Safety Officer

    www.shootonthemove.org

    "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport!"
    Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA

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    I think OC'ing is a small test of someone having to analyze why it is they are afraid of an OC'd firearm. It is obvious that the issue is with them. Everyone quickly forgets the very real (at least to them) fear that some white folks had with black people drinking from the same fountain or going to the same schools as their kids. I see fear as a chance to analyze ones self. What is it that they are really afraid of and why are they afraid?

    I hear the argument all the time that OC has no place in "modern society" but I'm the opposite. Because of the current state of "modern/civilized society" there is a greater need now more than ever to OC. Also, I think we have evolved enough that those who do OC are not likely to get drunk, ride down the center of town shooting into the air. But then that is a perception born of Hollywood not History.
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    Her criticism of open carry rests on this false assumption; “…and it does scare some people[/quote].” While I would never make the mistake of arguing in absolutes, I will make the claim, based on my observations, that very few people, if any, are frightened when they see an openly carried sidearm. I have seen people angry, curious, or bewildered, but never scared. I sat in a coffee shop in Tacoma while a woman force-fed me her opinion that nobody but the police should be allowed to own a firearm. She was certainly not afraid of me or my sidearm. By far the majority of people I’ve observed are inquisitive, often enough to express that directly to me.

    Ruby also makes several intellectual mistakes in her argument. The biggest is to cast a negative motive on someone else without supplying a factual basis. In fact, her comment about it being an ego trip mirrors an opinion you (Dave) used to hold about open carry. I’m thankful that you (Dave) have come over to our side now. Her other error is to project her fears onto others; the example here is the idea that the firearm will get stolen. Ruby seems to be a product of the current age which pushes people to think in little sound bites instead of serious intellectual contemplation.

    Remember, people are different. Their motives, desires, dreams, and personalities are all wonderfully varying. Some people OC as a political statement, personally I do not. I carry openly in much the same way as she might wear a watch. That’s why I don’t hand out brochures or get into debates with women at the coffee shop. I’m just a regular guy going about my business. The visibility of my sidearm is more a harbinger of the weather than anything else. I believe it is simply because I’m not trying to make a statement that I make the most favorable statement of all.

    I would invite her to open an account here to discuss it; she may find she has a lot of misconceptions that can be easily overcome. I would also recommend she read The Open Carry Argument for a more detailed response.


    EDIT to fix gender.

  11. #11
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    Open carry depends solely on the individual and how comfortable they are with their firearm. I live in the State of Arizona, and the open carry if firearms is culturally accepted and few people say anything about it. I have had the opportunity to educate several people about the legality of open carrying, why I do it, and the responsibility that goes with carrying a firearm in any manner. I have had nothing but compliments and curious questions about why I carry. One time when going into a pharmacy in Phoenix I heard someone say very sarcastically: "Why do you have that gun? You are not planning to rob the store are you?" To which I chuckled a little in reply: "No sir, I carry solely for the purpose of self-defense." He nodded and said: "props man, I admire that." Later that day surprisingly when talking to someone working a gas station about how to obtain a firearm and CCW in AZ, I observed a man walking in and he was curious as well, after answering a few questions about the legality of carry, he nodded: "Nobody's gonna screw around with you today." He was from Detroit.

    This is Open Carry at its best. A few will be curious, most really won't notice. But if you are professional, courteous, and respectful in your handling curious observers, the outcome will be positive. If I am alert and observant of the people around me, a criminal won't have the opportunity to sneak up on me and take my weapon which is securely holstered anyway. Like the man said in the store: "Nobody's gonna mess around with me." Criminals are smart enough to not go after easy targets. And a reasonably alert individual with a sidearm in plain view is going to make someone seriously think twice before attacking me.

    I carry period for the sole purpose of self-defense. I open carry because it is more comfortable and fits better with my carry tactics. I own an XD .45, not the easiest gun to conceal. I also open carry because I do enjoy an opportunity to educate curious people about firearms and self-defense. To those businesses that oppose having firearms in their establishments: I would simply smile, say thank you, and leave -- and perhaps return with a receipt from their competitors depending on the encounter.

    There will be those that I cannot reach or talk to about carry at all. I am reasonably certain that I will have an encoutner with somebody like that at some point as well as law enforcement while carrying. As stated above, my demeanor, dress, and attitude will go a long ways towards not scaring a bystander. But if and when that confrontation does arrise, I hope I can be courteous, polite, and respectful and come away with everyone a winner.

    Carry On!!

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    For me OC'ing is a touchy subject, some folks have no issue's, while others end up getting their pistol taken from them and ticketed by police. I have paid lots of $$$ for my two pistols (PX4-Storm .40 S&W and my Bersa .380) and would rather not be in a situation were they get taken because some one "OVER REACTED" Yet at times I get upset and think this is my right, this should not be a problem ... so for the moment I will continue to CC as I have a CPL.

    On the other hand I think we should continue to hold public OC meets to get the OVER REACTORS used to what our "Rights are" and at the same time lobby to enact laws much like Arizona has, after all our 2A is written rather simple "The right to keep and bear arms"

    Anyway I am just joining the debate and rambling !

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    Mainsail wrote:
    His criticism of open carry rests on this false assumption; “…and it does scare some people
    I don't think Ruby is a "he"

    Ruby also makes several intellectual mistakes in his argument. The biggest is to cast a negative motive on someone else without supplying a factual basis. In fact, his comment about it being an ego trip mirrors an opinion you (Dave) used to hold about open carry. I’m thankful that you (Dave) have come over to our side now.
    You make an assumption. I never was against open carry, you just thought it so because I was, and remain, brutallycritical about some folks who do it. For some folks, it is an "ego" trip and we all know it.

    About the practice itself, I've always been rather indifferent. A lot of folks simply haven't seen it that way because of my criticisms of some folks' behavior.

    My strenuous defense of OC really isn't a defense at all, but a brutal criticism of the assinine activities and hoplophobiaof anti-gunners. They make it pretty easy, and it just "seems" like a defense. Essentially, I'm telling anti-gunners that "it's none of your f---ing business, so ****," in my usual diplomatic manner.

    =======================



    Now, I'd like to thank everyone so far for having offered remarkably cogent, sincere, well-considered remarks in reaction to Ruby's discourse. I plan to hook up with her via e-mail and provide a link so she can read here and maybe get acquainted with everyone.

    See how easy it is to discuss and debate an issue without being boorish?

    Now, if only DEROS and Bookman would weigh in... :celebrate

  14. #14
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    Dave Workman wrote:
    Ladies and Gentlemen:

    I have a note from one of my Examiner.com readers, obviously a WA resident, who offers a very well-thought-out, sincere comment, and now is our opportunity to either shine like a star, or stink like an ogre, with a well-thought-out reply, or something less.

    How you reply will speak volumes more about you than about Ruby.

    Ruby says:
    Thanks,Dave, for getting back to me. As I said, I am opposed to open carry. I am a gun owner and I respect other people's opinions and practices. I am opposed to it because it is not customary in our society at the present time, and it does scare some people. And it is not without some limitations, as you described in your book Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities. We will not convert people who are on the fence about gun rights by scaring them. The other reason is that I do not want everyone to know that I have a firearm. Some criminal may just decide that he will try to take it away from me. I also think that for some gun owners, not all, but some, it's an ego trip. Look at me, I have a gun. I would be interested in hearing what the rest of you think about it and if you have carried openly, what your experience with it has been.
    May 3, 7:45 PM
    Ruby, your views can be broken down into three categories, and addressed individually. As I see it, you think that:
    1) Open carry will scare people and lead to curtailing of your rights.
    2) Concealed carry offers a "tactical advantage" that is lost when open carrying.
    3) Those who open carry are likely to be a bad representation of self-defense rights advocates.

    While it may be initially true that a person, not used to seeing a person open carrying, may feel apprehension (or even fear if they have no knowledge of firearms), the way to treat irrational fear is by repeated, safe exposure. This is addressed in Emotional Processing of Fear: Exposure to Corrective Information where "it is argued some form of exposure to feared situations is common to many psychotherapies for anxiety, and that confrontation with feared objects or situations is an effective treatment." Based on this, and similar research surrounding the mechanism of fear and its psychological processing, the best way to fix the fact that open carry scares people is to do it more, not less.

    The importance of open carry goes beyond just addressing those that have a fear of firearms, though. You fear that it will be hard to "convert people on the fence" if they view the practice as radical. I agree in a way, yet contend that until gun owners across the country are carrying openly, people on the fence will have to deal with humanity's innate tribalism. That is, every time anyone sees a gun owner acting polite in public, contributing to the community, or just going about their business, the person viewing the gun owner begins to recognize that there are many in their "tribe" that are gun owners. Politically, this means that people will be less likely to discriminate, because it's much harder for an opponent to demonize gun owners as "others" who must have their rights stripped, when every day the voter has positive encounters with other people within their sphere of influence. When you see a wide range of people open carrying, the stereotype of idiots, rednecks, and other demagogy rings false.

    For point number 2, I would question your assumptions about those who are willing to or planning to commit crimes, as well as on your presumed reaction time in a situation. Every time I read "tactical advantage" as a reason for concealed carry, I start to think about what those words really mean - do you plan to be in the middle of a mugging and yell "surprise!" while you draw and take out a bad guy? Your fear of someone who "may just decide that he will try to take [your firearm] away from [you]" makes me wonder about the criminal mindset. While I'm not certain of the answer, I think that presenting yourself as a "hard" target - one with potentially lethal consequences - provides a much greater deterrent than the common quip about "but the criminals need to fear because they don't know who is armed." Criminals are, in general, dumb and opportunistic. Without the overt reminder in their face about the consequences of a possible action, it seems unlikely they will even factor in the possibility of you having a concealed firearm. And at the point they're holding you up with a knife or a firearm of their own, what action can you take with a concealed carry pistol that could not better be taken with an openly carried gun? Ideally, I'd prefer they see that I am armed, as it reminds them that there are people around who are capable of ending them, and it is a blatant reminder of the fact there may be others around who aren't as visibly armed.

    Additionally, tying point #1 and #2 together, open carry reminds people that the world is an unsafe place. It's interesting that people feel scared about the visible presence of a person with a firearm, because it presents an opportunity to remind people that personal safety through police protection is an illusion. While we don't aim to scare people, many don't even consider the reality of police response times, what options they have in a crisis situation, etc, until they are reminded or challenged with something along the lines of "if this presented real danger to you right now, what would you be able to do about it?"

    Finally, for #3, I have met many open carriers now, and they are often the most mild-mannered people about. While there is certainly the potential for a bad apple, by and large we are a group that is simply interested in our rights. To that end, we recognize that open carry is a right and concealed carry a privilege in most states. In fact, the constitutions of Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Mexico, and North Carolina all explicitly call out that the right to keep and bear arms does not protect the right to carry concealed weapons. You don't "win" in the political realm by repeatedly conceding your rights, a little bit at a time. Over the past 200 years we’ve slowly watched many rights be eroded away. Recently, a resurgence has occurred in the love of Constitutionally guaranteed liberties that seems to have been missing since WW1, the Great Depression, the New Deal, WW2, and its fallout. By conceding in 1934, 1986, and 1994, Americans had many of the rights of the second amendment infringed upon. That led to the modern system of registration, bans on weapons that would be useful for serving as a militiaman, and even the ban (still alive in some places) on semi-automatic sporting rifles.


    With all that said, my experience with open carry has been, on the whole, positive. Even those who were hesitant at first have become accustomed to seeing me and realizing that, hey, maybe guns aren't scary murder weapons that they see them portrayed as. Hopefully this has been informative or at least helpful in understanding our views. Though you may not choose to open carry, yourself, I would ask that you not oppose it. Much as it is your right to disagree with the practice, to take an active stand against it means to attempt to curtail the very rights you claim to support, those of the people of this country to keep and bear arms.

    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Dave Workman wrote:
    Ladies and Gentlemen:

    I have a note from one of my Examiner.com readers, obviously a WA resident, who offers a very well-thought-out, sincere comment, and now is your opportunity to either shine like a star, or stink like an ogre, with a well-thought-out reply, or something less.

    How you reply will speak volumes more about you than about Ruby.

    Ruby says:
    Thanks,Dave, for getting back to me. As I said, I am opposed to open carry. I am a gun owner and I respect other people's opinions and practices. I am opposed to it because it is not customary in our society at the present time, and it does scare some people. And it is not without some limitations, as you described in your book Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities. We will not convert people who are on the fence about gun rights by scaring them. The other reason is that I do not want everyone to know that I have a firearm. Some criminal may just decide that he will try to take it away from me. I also think that for some gun owners, not all, but some, it's an ego trip. Look at me, I have a gun. I would be interested in hearing what the rest of you think about it and if you have carried openly, what your experience with it has been.
    May 3, 7:45 PM

    Ruby,

    I would appreciate if you weren't 'opposed' to open carry, but rather indifferent to the practice. Because something isn't customary does not make it wrong. I believe in the sense that it has become less customary has been that gun owners have capitulated to the anti gun movement. We have been asked to hide our firearms. We have been asked to behave as criminals have behaved in the concealed carry of our firearms.

    "It does scare some people"

    Everyday I get up and drive in Seattle-Tacoma traffic and there are times it scares me and other drivers. However, it is not the vehicle that scares me or others it is the behavior of the driver of that vehicle. I think you will find that it is the behavior of an individual that chooses to open carry that scares others not the firearm. I have met some who concealed carry whose behavior scares myself and others. I am sure that you have met people whose behavior scare you on a regular basis. In the state of Washington approximately 1 in 20 are carrying a concealed firearm. Wouldn't you rather see the firearm on a person whose behavior is poor and inappropriate then guess which of those 20 people is the one?

    For the last seven months I have carried openly and I will say that 99.99% of the people in public do not see my firearm. Why? Because I am polite, courteous, professional and my behavior invokes trust not fear in others. I go about my business as though I was concealed. I carry openly for that small percent that do ask and are genuinely curious about the practice and then I am willing to educate and be a positive face to gun owners.


    I have chosen to come out of the closet and be transparent in my behavior and actions. I can not be a jerk to the clerk at the grocery store. I can not be inconsiderate to the next person getting on the bus or elevator. I have chosen to be open and honest by carrying my firearm openly. I have chosen to engage in a movement to normalize the practice. I have chosen to educate others and also to correct the behavior of others who open carry whose behavior is not polite, courteous, professional and kind. It is a burden that I actively engage.
    Live Free or Die!

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    16 replies...that's all?
    Nothing more from anyone else?

  17. #17
    69Charger
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    Ok Dave. In your opinion, Who's opinion that has been posted on this one STINKS or SHINES?
    You said it. I didn't.
    Dave

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    69Charger wrote:
    Ok Dave. In your opinion, Who's opinion that has been posted on this one STINKS or SHINES?
    You said it. I didn't.
    Dave
    So far, all seem to be very well thought out, good reasoning, and none of the sneering indignation that all too frequently shows up on chat boards from internet thugs.

    I am genuinely pleased and impressed at the quality, but a little disappointed in the quantity as I figured more people would have opinions they are willing to share.

  19. #19
    69Charger
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    Maybe some just don't want to STINK. (in someones opinion)
    Im a speak your mind kind of guy but some have a hard time with rejection. :?
    Your still doin a great job for us Davy boy.
    No disrespect, just funnin with ya.
    Dave

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    Sounds like he has a tactical reason not to open carry. Scaring people is going to be an issue with any kind of fire arm. The Police however don't seem to be scaring people! Its a double standard. I think open carry deters crime in some ways and it is very specifically written that The Right to Bare Arms Shall Not be Infringed. Cheers

  21. #21
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    Dave Workman wrote:
    I am genuinely pleased and impressed at the quality, but a little disappointed in the quantity as I figured more people would have opinions they are willing to share.
    Dave,

    It's been less than 13 hours from the time you made your post in the middle of the night. Give it some time. You wanted well thought out, after all.
    Hoplophobia is a social disease.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Squeak's Avatar
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    69Charger wrote:
    Ok Dave. In your opinion, Who's opinion that has been posted on this one STINKS or SHINES?
    You said it. I didn't.
    Dave
    Stop suckin' up! Did you see whose names he dropped? That'll tell ya who is going to get the GOLD star on their paper!

  23. #23
    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    I'll keep mine very short and simple.

    I have legally carried for many years. Usually I carry concealed, but almost always carry openly when more or less out in the boonies.

    When I carry openly, it is not to make a statement, but simply for convenience.

    I'm not obsessive about remaining concealed, but in most instances *I* feel better if the "potential bad guys" around me do not know I am multiply armed and dismiss the "old guy with the cane" as being a threat.

    Recently I changed my primary daily carry from my old, heavy, but tried and true S&W to a smaller, lighter 9mm. I have a CC holster for it, but I have not yet found the perfect OC holster for it, and before I charge about open carrying this new piece, I want to have it in a holster with more designed-in retention than my CC holster has.

    (My BUG still lives in a pocket holster...)
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Facimus!

  24. #24
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Dave Workman wrote:
    Ladies and Gentlemen:

    I have a note from one of my Examiner.com readers, obviously a WA resident, who offers a very well-thought-out, sincere comment, and now is your opportunity to either shine like a star, or stink like an ogre, with a well-thought-out reply, or something less.

    How you reply will speak volumes more about you than about Ruby.

    Ruby says:
    Thanks,Dave, for getting back to me. As I said, I am opposed to open carry. I am a gun owner and I respect other people's opinions and practices. I am opposed to it because it is not customary in our society at the present time, and it does scare some people. And it is not without some limitations, as you described in your book Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities. We will not convert people who are on the fence about gun rights by scaring them. The other reason is that I do not want everyone to know that I have a firearm. Some criminal may just decide that he will try to take it away from me. I also think that for some gun owners, not all, but some, it's an ego trip. Look at me, I have a gun. I would be interested in hearing what the rest of you think about it and if you have carried openly, what your experience with it has been.
    May 3, 7:45 PM
    I dont scary carry. I carry for personal protection. I am not a full blown open carrier. Meaning that I mostly carry concealed, but thanks to finding OCDO and all you wonderfull people on here, I was able to take my jacket off for my comfort without worry of persicution (legally and at times, in certain places). I consider myself OC (although some here may not), when I take my jacket off and my pistol is exposed. I dont do to be macho, I dont do it to intimidate, I carry my firearm for personal protection. I myself dont think it matters if you are OC or CC, when it comes to the public, sure what they dont know they wont scream about, but you wont change someone either way, if they are against guns, they are against guns. I actually think you have a better chance of making a difference if they see someone with a gun and nothing happens. I have not been arrested or confronted with rude remarks. In fact open carry has helped me once. It made some nervouse parents take their unruly child out of the resturaunt and gave the rest of us some peace and quiet (That was their problem with guns, I did not expose it to intimidate). All I did was smile at them. As far as it not being customary in todays society, that is what OCDO is all about. It used to be, and people have forgotten their rights. I have thought about the fact that I may be a target to take out first if a criminal sees my weapon, but that being said, this is why you have to always be aware of your surroundings, as you should be, OC, CC and even NC. I think people should be able to choose what is best for them. I look at it kind of like religeon. If you are Catholic, do you like Baptist saying your religeon is wrong, or if your a Baptist, a Jahovah's Witness will tell you they are in the one true religeon. If there was one true religion, everyone would be in it, while we all worship the same god. OC / CC we all worship the same Amendment, and no one should be able to tell us any different.


    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  25. #25
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Dave Workman wrote:
    69Charger wrote:
    Ok Dave. In your opinion, Who's opinion that has been posted on this one STINKS or SHINES?
    You said it. I didn't.
    Dave
    So far, all seem to be very well thought out, good reasoning, and none of the sneering indignation that all too frequently shows up on chat boards from internet thugs.

    I am genuinely pleased and impressed at the quality, but a little disappointed in the quantity as I figured more people would have opinions they are willing to share.
    Figured this thread would be 16 pages long by the time I got a chance to reply, so I'll chime in.

    The #1 reason I OC is simple: comfort. I'm a fatass . I already have way too much IWB so there ain't room for a gun, and in general it's pretty hard to conceal anything on me. I think LT made an excellent point about the fallacy of the tactical advantage of concealment. Criminals are predators, pure & simple. Like any other, they prey on the weak, the vulnerable, the easy targets. A person who is obviously armed makes a much less appealing target than one who may or may not be (and lets face it, probably is not) armed. Unless some baddie has a specific vendetta against you personally, he'll take one look at the visible sidearm & wait for easier prey. Again, there's not a single verifiable case of an OCer being directly targeted by a criminal because he was OC, and plenty of first-person reports of "Crimes that weren't" because the bad guy walked in, saw an armed citizen, & walked out.

    Also, I take offense at the idea that my self-defense tool is somehow dirty, or shameful, something that ought to be hidden from society & kept out of the public view. Yeah, there are plenty of OCers out there with a point to make, or just trying to get attention, or cause a fuss. But the same can be said of ANY political or social movement, like the Prius with three dozen "I hate Bush" stickers plastered all over it.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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