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Ruby

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To Navy LT, I am planning on coming to Starbucks in FW on Saturday. You said that FWPD is usually having a shift change while you are there. I take it they are okay with all the OC? I am not very familiar with Federal Way, but no worries, that's why there is MapQuest and Google Maps, right?
 

gogodawgs

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Ruby wrote:
To Navy LT, I am planning on coming to Starbucks in FW on Saturday. You said that FWPD is usually having a shift change while you are there. I take it they are okay with all the OC? I am not very familiar with Federal Way, but no worries, that's why there is MapQuest and Google Maps, right?

Yes FWPD has always been very cool with our little get together and have never done anything but say hello.
 

Ruby

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I don't understand how your employer can prohibit you from carrying when you are off the clock and off company property. I was always under the impression that what you did on your own time away from work was your business, unless you were breaking the law, but I guess that's not true in all instances. Definitely not true in your case. I'm so sorry that you don't have the option for self protection. I really appreciate everyone sharing their situations and experiences with me. It's giving me a much broader view of OC & CC.
 

Tomas

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Ruby wrote:
I don't understand how your employer can prohibit you from carrying when you are off the clock and off company property. I was always under the impression that what you did on your own time away from work was your business, unless you were breaking the law, but I guess that's not true in all instances. Definitely not true in your case. I'm so sorry that you don't have the option for self protection. I really appreciate everyone sharing their situations and experiences with me. It's giving me a much broader view of OC & CC.
Normally I suspect that happens to non-car commuters who have no way to safely store a firearm while at work, meaning that they will not have access to a firearm during their commutes.
 

Ruby

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I'm sorry, I am new to forums and such. I was addressing MetalHead 47( I should have said that)and the fact that he can't carry on or off the job. I appreciate your answer also, though. So far, you all have impressed me with your welcome, your courtesy and your friendliness. I am looking forward to meeting some of you on Saturday.
 

XSubSailor

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Ruby wrote:
To Navy LT: I find it ironic that the military, which is definitely connected with arms in most people's minds, does not allow it's members to defend themselves with arms! I am a veteran, by the way, 1965-1968. Thank you for your comments, I am learning a lot and it's good to have a place to discuss different practices of OC.



Ruby
Ironic indeed. I can state pretty emphatically that the Fort Hood murderer would not have racked up the body count he did, had soldiers been allowed to carry (on or off-duty, in uniform or not). In the sandbox, our military carry firearms as a required part of their uniform. Also ironic was that the Fort Hood murderer was ultimately taken down by a civilian off-duty female cop...carrying a concealed firearm.
 

amzbrady

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Howdy Ruby, and welcome to OCDO. I OC at work and CC depending on how warm the shop is (That is before I got laid off).I fill in a couple days here and there and unless I'm on the ground under a car (mechanic), I always have my firearm with me. I drive towing also, so I am around staters, Sheriff, and local PD. No problems. As far as your situation, I would suggest CC so you dont hinder your income. Have fun here, I try to.

Youll see I like my posters, so heres one for esp for you since your new here.
 

Metalhead47

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Ruby wrote:
I'm sorry, I am new to forums and such. I was addressing MetalHead 47( I should have said that)and the fact that he can't carry on or off the job. I appreciate your answer also, though. So far, you all have impressed me with your welcome, your courtesy and your friendliness. I am looking forward to meeting some of you on Saturday.
The "Quote" button is your friend :D.

Tomas got it partly right. I ride a motorcycle year round, rain or shine. Plastic saddlebags aren't exactly secure storage :uhoh:. And like many or even most employers, mine even prohibits storing a weapon locked in a personal vehicle on company property. And even if my bags were 8th inch steel plate (that could be arranged:quirky), it'd be pretty obvious to anyone walking by (and the lil security camera that watches the lot) what I was doing. You're lucky to be in more of a "don't ask, don't tell" situation, and for those who actually get to OC at work, I glare at you and grumble under my breath!

Now if I drove for Metro, I'd carry whether they liked it or not. Probably dual Serbu's and full body armor :what:
 

Ruby

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Metalhead47 wrote:
Ruby wrote:
I'm sorry, I am new to forums and such. I was addressing MetalHead 47( I should have said that)and the fact that he can't carry on or off the job. I appreciate your answer also, though. So far, you all have impressed me with your welcome, your courtesy and your friendliness. I am looking forward to meeting some of you on Saturday.
The "Quote" button is your friend :D.

Tomas got it partly right. I ride a motorcycle year round, rain or shine. Plastic saddlebags aren't exactly secure storage :uhoh:. And like many or even most employers, mine even prohibits storing a weapon locked in a personal vehicle on company property. And even if my bags were 8th inch steel plate (that could be arranged:quirky), it'd be pretty obvious to anyone walking by (and the lil security camera that watches the lot) what I was doing. You're lucky to be in more of a "don't ask, don't tell" situation, and for those who actually get to OC at work, I glare at you and grumble under my breath!

Now if I drove for Metro, I'd carry whether they liked it or not. Probably dual Serbu's and full body armor :what:
I personally know of two Metro drivers who were assaulted while working; one of them I clean house for. I also recall a few years ago there was a bus driver in Seattle area,driving a bus on a bridge,I believe, who was shot by a passenger. I don't thinkthat would have happenedhad there been an OC passenger, or even a CC passenger who could have helped.

Yes, it is a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. Some of my customers have their suspicions I expect, but because they KNOW me, it's not a problem for them. I carry concealed in a gun purse and believe me, I keep a mighty close eye on that purse. When I occasionally clean for someone with small children, it is locked in my car. Not willing to risk a tragedy around a child. In warmer weather, I carry in a fanny pack with a holster in it. I think it's a shame that some people are so frightened of guns that they don't like to see them in public. I wish we could all OC without fear of reprisal from anyone. But we have to be realistic about our present society and realize that some people will never be comfortable about seeing guns in public. I see this group of people as a positive step in that direction. I am very impressed with all that I have heard and read here and I am much more open to OC the more I learn. It's just not practical in my life at this time.
 

amzbrady

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Ruby there all kinds of different holsters and guns that will allow you to conceal and not have to disarm yourself. Even pocket guns so you dont need a holster, or wallet guns. These, although small and sometimes not very accurate could give you the time you need to get to more viable weapon. Here are a couple sites I found for ya.

http://corneredcat.com/

http://www.firearmssite.com/women_holsters.htm
 

Metalhead47

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Ruby wrote:
I think it's a shame that some people are so frightened of guns that they don't like to see them in public.
Now that's the whole key right there, and why the OC movement is so important to gun rights overall. The idea, at least as far as the political aspect goes, is to convince people that there really is no reason to be afraid of armed citizens. Yeah, there are plenty of loony toons out there who will never come to that realization. But I think there's plenty more rational types out there who might come to the realization, even if they don't like guns, that, "hey that guy over there has a gun and he's just minding his own business and not harming anyone!"

Even enough people come to that conclusion, then OC, or carrying at all, will cease to be a political statement (as we all recognize it is, whether we think it ought to be or not). I'll be the first to admit it's not for everyone. My wife carries even more than I do, and nearly always concealed. If one is going to OC, they must know the law, and their rights, in anticipation of "the conversation." Sometimes that conversation is good, sometimes it's not. I've been carrying for just over a year now, most of that OC, and in all that I've had very few conversations at all, and only one negative one, because of all the good folks on here who've already done so much of the gruntwork in getting the message out there. I do find it somewhat ironic that OCers don't really care how you carry, and certainly never demand that you must OC, while so many deadicated gun rights advocates demand that we only CC.
 

Tawnos

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Ruby wrote:
Hi guys, this is Ruby. I decided to come on this forum so I can discuss things with you. I really appreciate all of your opinions and comments. There seems to be a lot I never thought of concerning OC. I have a question for you regarding OC. I am going to assume that at least some of you still work. Do you OC on the job or do you switch to CC when at work? I'm curious as to how you handle this where your job is concerned. I cannot OC on my job; I am self employed cleaning people's houses and I cannot walk into someone's house with a gun on my hip. I do CC almost 100% of the time though. Some of my customers know I CC, some don't; OC for me would be financial suicide. Same with entertainment, etc. I can't walk into Benaroyal or the Paramount wearing a gun. I am curious as to how you handle these kinds of situations. Thanks!
Welcome! As for your question - my workplace is a self-defense free zone. They even ban firearms in cars on company property. I need to make a living, and they pay well, so I practice Krav Maga and hope that I never meet an attacker on the way to or from work.

In situations where I feel like I have less than ideal situational awareness and personal space (Pike Place market and the Paramount are good examples), I tend to concealed carry. When not going to or from work (and when not in a bar...which is still a dumb law), I carry. Generally open, but it's not an absolute must. If I were to go into business for myself, I'd likely CC or OC depending on the situation and knowledge of the customer. Overall, I think it's a personal choice, as well as a situational one.
 

Ruby

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amzbrady wrote:
Ruby there all kinds of different holsters and guns that will allow you to conceal and not have to disarm yourself. Even pocket guns so you dont need a holster, or wallet guns. These, although small and sometimes not very accurate could give you the time you need to get to more viable weapon. Here are a couple sites I found for ya.

http://corneredcat.com/

http://www.firearmssite.com/women_holsters.htm
Thank you for your reply and the websites. It's just not practical to have the gun on me when I am cleaning. I clean bathrooms with showers; obviously I can't carry in someone's shower!(LOL) My purse is rarely more than a few feet from me. When I use the fanny pack, my gun ISon me. Also, I am a lefty; those holsters are not all that common. And I carry a 1911, not an easy gun to hide. I have a holster for it and probably will wear it in the holster Saturday at Starbucks. If I decide to OC while there, all I have to do is take off my jacket. I haven't made up my mind yet; I am not comfortable with the idea of OC for myself. I have no qualms about being around you guys carrying openly; everyone on here sounds pretty safe and sane to me, although some of you may argue about that! I will have to get into this gradually, this is all still pretty new to me. I need to get used to the idea first; I am curious to see what the reaction of the other patrons at Starbucks is when you all are there carrying openly.
 

gogodawgs

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Ruby wrote:
amzbrady wrote:
Ruby there all kinds of different holsters and guns that will allow you to conceal and not have to disarm yourself. Even pocket guns so you dont need a holster, or wallet guns. These, although small and sometimes not very accurate could give you the time you need to get to more viable weapon. Here are a couple sites I found for ya.

http://corneredcat.com/

http://www.firearmssite.com/women_holsters.htm
Thank you for your reply and the websites. It's just not practical to have the gun on me when I am cleaning. I clean bathrooms with showers; obviously I can't carry in someone's shower!(LOL) My purse is rarely more than a few feet from me. When I use the fanny pack, my gun ISon me. Also, I am a lefty; those holsters are not all that common. And I carry a 1911, not an easy gun to hide. I have a holster for it and probably will wear it in the holster Saturday at Starbucks. If I decide to OC while there, all I have to do is take off my jacket. I haven't made up my mind yet; I am not comfortable with the idea of OC for myself. I have no qualms about being around you guys carrying openly; everyone on here sounds pretty safe and sane to me, although some of you may argue about that! I will have to get into this gradually, this is all still pretty new to me. I need to get used to the idea first; I am curious to see what the reaction of the other patrons at Starbucks is when you all are there carrying openly.
So far there has been no reaction. In my 7 months of OC I would say that 99.99% do not react, do not see the firearm. It is somewhat stunning.
 

Ruby

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I would like to thank everyone for their comments, opinions, and helpful advice. You all have been very welcoming and I appreciate that. I am looking forward to conversing with you and learning more. Goodnight!
 

sudden valley gunner

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Ruby wrote:
Thank you for your reply and the websites. It's just not practical to have the gun on me when I am cleaning. I clean bathrooms with showers; obviously I can't carry in someone's shower!(LOL) My purse is rarely more than a few feet from me. When I use the fanny pack, my gun ISon me. Also, I am a lefty; those holsters are not all that common. And I carry a 1911, not an easy gun to hide. I have a holster for it and probably will wear it in the holster Saturday at Starbucks. If I decide to OC while there, all I have to do is take off my jacket. I haven't made up my mind yet; I am not comfortable with the idea of OC for myself. I have no qualms about being around you guys carrying openly; everyone on here sounds pretty safe and sane to me, although some of you may argue about that! I will have to get into this gradually, this is all still pretty new to me. I need to get used to the idea first; I am curious to see what the reaction of the other patrons at Starbucks is when you all are there carrying openly.

Gradually is the best way in my opinion, if you are not comfortableopenly carryingand it shows, I think it could subtly raise little alarms in the folks you may be around. But if you are comfortable and confident that tends to ease the fears of those who may not even like guns. And in my experiences it seems to open up opportunity for discussion and education.

I have had people tell me "I don't like guns, but you seem like one of the good guys, I don't mind being around you", " I feel safer knowing you are carrying", and more and these are from folks who would normally be against firearms or who would never carry themselves.

Of course carrying is the important thing in my book, and if all you can or want to do is carry concealed it is a +1 you are one less victim and one more person that gets it.
 

killchain

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My easing into OC kind of went like this:

First, I just did it around at home, maybe to the mailbox, etc.

Second, I found a few places around town that I frequent, got to know the people who worked there, and eventually started to OC there.

And it kind of tumbles on from there.

Admittedly, I don't OC all the time. I CC most of the time (my Keltec is so easy to stick in the pocket) but I do sometimes (especially to and from the range), and I support people's right to protect themselves. And if they don't want to wear their protection in a tight belt under a jacket in July... well... this is America. You have this thing called FREEDOM. ;)
 

Bob Warden

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NavyLT wrote:
Bob Warden wrote:
Both state and federal constitutions protect the separate rights to keep (possess)and bear (carry) arms. Neither source specifically protects a right tobear open, or tobear concealed. A natural argument could be made that a government entity that allows one form of carry but not the other is in accord with the constitutional guarantees. In other words, we cannot say with legal certainty that we have aright toOPEN carry.

Pragmatically, I don't think pushing the open carry envelope achieves anything positive. I don't think one's ability to defend self or others is significantly enhanced by open versus concealed carry. Perhaps even the opposite: an observant armed bad guy will seek to neutralize known threats. If you carry open, you are a known threat to the criminal. Concealed carry has the obvious added benefit of not inflaming anti-gunners. And stop pretending you can change the minds of anti-gunners by openly carrying guns! Whether the opinion is justified or not, people with strongly held beliefs and opinions very rarely change their minds.

To summarize, no clear right to open carry, and no productive reason to do so.
In regards to paragraph #1, if a government only allows licensed carry, either open or concealed, and does not offer a means of carrying without a license, such as Texas and Oklahoma (two that come to mind), that certainly is in violation of the right to bear arms because the state has turned it into a taxed privilege.

As far as the second paragraph, my personal opinion is that it simply reeks of B.S. I am not even going to address that pile here.

The last section is a mixture of summarization and B.S., in my opinion.

There you go, Dave, now you have your "stinks like an ogre" post, whether you consider it to be my reply, or the opinion of the esteemed Bob Warden, or both.
"Reeks of B.S." does not address the merits of anything. My post, whether you agree with it or not, was logical and non-insulting. If you disagree with me, say why or say nothing.
 

killchain

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Bob Warden wrote:
NavyLT wrote:
Bob Warden wrote:
Both state and federal constitutions protect the separate rights to keep (possess)and bear (carry) arms. Neither source specifically protects a right tobear open, or tobear concealed. A natural argument could be made that a government entity that allows one form of carry but not the other is in accord with the constitutional guarantees. In other words, we cannot say with legal certainty that we have aright toOPEN carry.

Pragmatically, I don't think pushing the open carry envelope achieves anything positive. I don't think one's ability to defend self or others is significantly enhanced by open versus concealed carry. Perhaps even the opposite: an observant armed bad guy will seek to neutralize known threats. If you carry open, you are a known threat to the criminal. Concealed carry has the obvious added benefit of not inflaming anti-gunners. And stop pretending you can change the minds of anti-gunners by openly carrying guns! Whether the opinion is justified or not, people with strongly held beliefs and opinions very rarely change their minds.

To summarize, no clear right to open carry, and no productive reason to do so.
In regards to paragraph #1, if a government only allows licensed carry, either open or concealed, and does not offer a means of carrying without a license, such as Texas and Oklahoma (two that come to mind), that certainly is in violation of the right to bear arms because the state has turned it into a taxed privilege.

As far as the second paragraph, my personal opinion is that it simply reeks of B.S. I am not even going to address that pile here.

The last section is a mixture of summarization and B.S., in my opinion.

There you go, Dave, now you have your "stinks like an ogre" post, whether you consider it to be my reply, or the opinion of the esteemed Bob Warden, or both.
"Reeks of B.S." does not address the merits of anything. My post, whether you agree with it or not, was logical and non-insulting. If you disagree with me, say why or say nothing.

That's right. Because taxing people will make them accept taxing. And giving people speeding tickets will make them love cops.

Hang on, let me put on my body armor... okay. He's got a point about open carry.
 

Bob Warden

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sudden valley gunner wrote:
Bob Warden wrote:
Blah Blah Blah
So the only reason you pretended to like us open carriers was to solicit money for yourself?

I don't remember pretending to like you, or soliciting money for "myself." In any event, my post yesterday had nothing to do with either. I simply expressed an opinion to which you obviously don't have a logical response.
 
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