Take a moment, assemble your thoughts, and reply

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NavyLT wrote:

I just got back from the gun range. I was going to shoot my .44 black powder Colt Navy revolver ...

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Now, that sounds like fun. I NEED one!

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I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed meeting you guys this morning at Starbucks. I found you guys to be friendly, knowledgeable, and positive. Thank you for being supportive and making my first experience with open carry a positive one. :celebrateI don't know if I am ready to try it on my own, but I am certainly "open" to the idea, pun intended! I am looking forward to learning a lot from you guys. I hope everyone has a great weekend.

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Ruby wrote:

I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed meeting you guys this morning at Starbucks. I found you guys to be friendly, knowledgeable, and positive. Thank you for being supportive and making my first experience with open carry a positive one. :celebrateI don't know if I am ready to try it on my own, but I am certainly "open" to the idea, pun intended! I am looking forward to learning a lot from you guys. I hope everyone has a great weekend.

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Great meeting you Ruby, it is very empowering and exhilirating to OC.

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Tomas wrote:

killchain wrote:

You know, I reviewed half this thread and I gotta say, guys...

If real life had an edit button a lot of people would get away with saying a lot of crap.

QUIT EDITING OUT YOUR POSTS. STICK TO WHAT YOU SAY.

And if it was "stupid," well, think about what you say.

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Just as a hint: I have a tendency to edit my posts when I spot typos in them or notice that I have dropped a word or sometimes even to clarify something I did not express as clearly as I might have wished.

At no time have I gone back to change the intent, direction, or original intended meaning of what I said.

I own what I say, and take responsibility for it. It is mine.

As such, I wish it to express my thoughts clearly - or at least as clearly as I can in the limiting format of an on-line discussion forum.

If you don't like that I sometimes edit my posts to clean up and clarify them, I urge you to ignore them. I don't plan to change what I do.

Tom

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Do you edit your posts to have a "."? No? Carry on.

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Thats bites, more internet rules. Hope they dont ban talking about guns...


Edited "because I can" :celebrate

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Dave Workman wrote:

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I have a note from one of my Examiner.com readers, obviously a WA resident, who offers a very well-thought-out, sincere comment, and now is your opportunity to either shine like a star, or stink like an ogre, with a well-thought-out reply, or something less.

How you reply will speak volumes more about you than about Ruby.

Ruby says:
Thanks,Dave, for getting back to me. As I said, I am opposed to open carry. I am a gun owner and I respect other people's opinions and practices. I am opposed to it because it is not customary in our society at the present time, and it does scare some people. And it is not without some limitations, as you described in your book Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities. We will not convert people who are on the fence about gun rights by scaring them. The other reason is that I do not want everyone to know that I have a firearm. Some criminal may just decide that he will try to take it away from me. I also think that for some gun owners, not all, but some, it's an ego trip. Look at me, I have a gun. I would be interested in hearing what the rest of you think about it and if you have carried openly, what your experience with it has been.
May 3, 7:45 PM

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Dear Ms. Ruby,

You raise some common objections to O.C. They are, however,fairly easily answered.

1. "I am opposed to it because it is not customary in our society at the present time, and it does scare some people."

At one time it was not customary for blacks and whites to eat in the same room, drink from the same fountain, go to the same schools or date/marry each other. How did that change? For one, by doing it, in public, in plainview, and demonstrating that the sky would not fall. (It also took some blood-shed and legislative action, sometimes backed up by force of arms. I think we can do this a lot safer and more peacefully via both quiet personal and organisedpublic demonstration and, where required, court actions and legislation.)

If Civil Rights "scare some people", again, demonstration and education will dispel this misconstruction. In any event, Civil Rights should in no way be dependent on if they "scare" anyone.



2. "Some criminal may just decide that he will try to take it away from me."

In theory, a reasonable hypothesis, but in reality, not supported by evidence. I don't think you can find a statistically significant number of such cases, if you can find any at all. If criminals are trying to do this, they are having a notable lack of success. It may actually be that the reverse is true, as there are a number of reports of Citizens disarming criminals and using the firearm to legally repel/detain their attacker, and a few documented cases of O.C. detering criminals without the weapon being drawn, sometimes without the bearer even being aware of the situation.



3. "I also think that for some gun owners, not all, but some, it's an ego trip. Look at me, I have a gun."

This is true in any human endeavor, but again is not a valid reason to ban the practice or restrict a Civil Right. Else we would have to restrict vehicles of all types, professional atheletes, politicians, college students, artists and actors... well, I'm sure you get the point.



4. My experiencein O.C. here inArizona (and in Utah, Vermont and New Hampshire) has been completely positive or neutral, with only one exception thus far. IHOP apparently has a No Firearms policy, and I was unable to eat there after being a Designated Driver one night. SoI took my business to an establishment that did not discriminate. But ironically, amid all the calls of scaring the public, a majority ofpeople do not even notice. A minority do, and a few people either express approval or ask questions, allowing me to help educate them onthe laws and responsibilities inherent to thiscustom.



I hope this response is helpful.Do please remember that, as advocates of the Second Amendment, weare on the same side,albeit using differing tactics and strategies againsta common opponent. Travel in peace and carry safely, whatever method you prefer.




Edit/Added: Ruby, I posted this after only reading page one. Looks like most of this already got covered. Silly me, read the entire thread next time... Also, I made an assumption about your gender, then saw you had registered and posted. Your profile does not specify. If I am in error, please accept my apology. Lastly, welcome, and I am glad you had a good time at the meet'n'great. The Washingtonbunch has always sounded like a very hospitable group of people. Hope youstay and add to the liveliness of the place.

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To PavePusher,

Thanks for the greeting. I don't yet know how to edit to just reply to part of a post, so I thought I would do it this way. I am still getting used to this, I've never been on a forum before, but I will learn. Yes, the meeting was great,it was good to meet such goodguys. I felt very supported and I did open carry for the first time. I found that a lot of my fears and assumptions simply were not valid. I still have a lot to learn, but then I hope to be learning the rest of my life. And yes, I am female. I don't know that there was a place to indicate that when I registered; I just assumed that everyone would know that Ruby is female. You brought up some very good points; I want to be as knowledgeable as possible so I can answer other people's questions when I open carry and they ask about it. I'm sure I will open carry again, by myself and if someone asks me about it, I want to be able to answer their questions. Thanks to all for your help!

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Ajetpilot wrote:

NavyLT wrote:

I just got back from the gun range. I was going to shoot my .44 black powder Colt Navy revolver ...

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Now, that sounds like fun. I NEED one!

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Get the .36 in a steel frame. Don't give in to the dark side of the .44....

Ok, so maybe an Army or New Army would be ok, but the Navy in .36 handles nicer...(At least in my opinion)....

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I'll go ya one better. I'm buying one of each!

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Hey guys, it's Ruby. I need some help. I got into a discussion on CL's R&R yesterday concerning open carry. One guy was vehemently against it. I was polite and allowed him his opinion. Then another guy chimed in and said, and I quote "What Starbucks is it where everyone meets? I wanna go. I've got a genuine Colt SAA in .45 Colt, a pre-war model and a Coshise Leather Company Duke holster rig just like John Wayne wore. I would love to wear it in public. I would be willing to challenge anyone to a fast draw. I can beat them even with my single action. You bet I can! Let me know where you meet and I'll be there. I have dreamed about this."

Naturally, I didn't tell him, this guy is some kind of nut case! I told him that the meeting wasn't for cowboys, that that wasn't the kind of image this group wanted to project, etc. That we didn't want someone with a show off attitude to create a problem for us or Starbucks. Other people chimed in and basically told him the same thing. Well tonight there was another post from him telling me that I didn't own Starbucks and that he can go there if he wants, that he will find out where and when our next meeting is and he will come and bring his friends and we will have a rip roaring time(his words.) He said that people like me make him sick by pushing my values off on him, which I didn't do. At no time did I give him ANY information at all about any of us, nor did I answer him with my email address. This sounds threatening to me and I wanted to share it with you guys and see what you think. I think he's nuts! So did some other people on there. All I did was defend open carry in this discussion, I was polite, allowed others their opinions, etc. You can go to Craig's List Rants & Raves for Seattle-Tacoma and read under yesterday's date 5/9. The headings used were mostly Open carry Starbucks meeting. At NO TIME DID I GIVE A LOCATION, NAME, ETC. I have never run into anything like this in all the time I have had a computer. Sorry this is so long, but I thought you guys should know about this. I mean, I can just see this dude coming in with his buddies and starting something and then some people get hurt or killed! Help!! BTW, I didn't answer his latest post and I am not going back on there again. I feel I didn't do anything wrong, there's just crazy people out there. I hope one of you at least will go to yesterday's posts and check this out.:banghead:

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NavyLT wrote:

Well, that's the problem, Ruby. Where do you draw the line. We don't like it when the anti-gun groups draw the line at anyone carrying a gun in any form. We don't like it when the die hard concealed carry only crowd calls us names and such for open carrying. So it is really hard to figure out where the line should be. The founders of this forum have banned the discussion of open carry of rifles because it crosses their line.

So I don't know. I mean we would welcome any anti-gun person to come to our meetings. We would welcome a die hard concealed carry only person to our meetings. But we would like them to be respectful of us. And our meetings aren't really, you know, official member's only things anyway... we wouldn't really have a right to ask someone to leave, especially since we meet at businesses owned by other persons. So it's tough.

I guess I would say that our main goal is to normalize the sight and act of carrying a firearm for personal protection. We are trying to fight against the image of the old west that the anti-s are so quick to point to. We are trying to show people that normal Americans carry guns doing normal things that everybody else does. Leave the quick draw stuff for a gun range that allows it. There's a time and a place for everything and everybody.

BTW, (toot, toot - my horn), did you happen to catch my letter to HeraldNet that they published! http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100508/OPINION02/705089993#State.firearms.law.has.existed.since.1983

I'm pretty excited about it!

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Thanks for getting back to me. The guy that wants to come is not an anti. He's talking about challenging someone to a quick draw and it sounds like at Starbucks! I think he's crazy. By saying "cowboy" I meant a cowboy, show off attitude and he thinks it's about dress, the way he acts, et. I have nothing against that sort of thing. I just said that in consideration for Starbucks allowing us to open carry that we keep things low key. You know, no waving your gun around, gun stays in the holster, etc. I am really concerned about this guy. He's mad at me, thinking I am putting him down when I am not. Crazy people are bad enough, but crazy people with guns scare the hell out of me!

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Ruby wrote:

NavyLT wrote:

Well, that's the problem, Ruby. Where do you draw the line. We don't like it when the anti-gun groups draw the line at anyone carrying a gun in any form. We don't like it when the die hard concealed carry only crowd calls us names and such for open carrying. So it is really hard to figure out where the line should be. The founders of this forum have banned the discussion of open carry of rifles because it crosses their line.

So I don't know. I mean we would welcome any anti-gun person to come to our meetings. We would welcome a die hard concealed carry only person to our meetings. But we would like them to be respectful of us. And our meetings aren't really, you know, official member's only things anyway... we wouldn't really have a right to ask someone to leave, especially since we meet at businesses owned by other persons. So it's tough.

I guess I would say that our main goal is to normalize the sight and act of carrying a firearm for personal protection. We are trying to fight against the image of the old west that the anti-s are so quick to point to. We are trying to show people that normal Americans carry guns doing normal things that everybody else does. Leave the quick draw stuff for a gun range that allows it. There's a time and a place for everything and everybody.

BTW, (toot, toot - my horn), did you happen to catch my letter to HeraldNet that they published! http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100508/OPINION02/705089993#State.firearms.law.has.existed.since.1983

I'm pretty excited about it!

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Thanks for getting back to me. The guy that wants to come is not an anti. He's talking about challenging someone to a quick draw and it sounds like at Starbucks! I think he's crazy. By saying "cowboy" I meant a cowboy, show off attitude and he thinks it's about dress, the way he acts, et. I have nothing against that sort of thing. I just said that in consideration for Starbucks allowing us to open carry that we keep things low key. You know, no waving your gun around, gun stays in the holster, etc. I am really concerned about this guy. He's mad at me, thinking I am putting him down when I am not. Crazy people are bad enough, but crazy people with guns scare the hell out of me!

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Good article, I liked it very much; clear and to the point. I just went and read it. I am going to go to bed and hope this lunatic does NOT show up next month!

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First let me say that I have no real insghts to offer at all, and I hope that sort of squirrel does NOT start showing up.

Other that than, if his gun cleared leather in public and there wasn't something he needed to shoot, *I* would call the police myself, even though I both OC and CC.

No excuse for any grandstanding by some 'quick draw' cowboy in public.

:banghead:

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Craigslist is a very questionable enterprise. I would move on from it for the time being.

We post our meetings in a public forum, anyone can come and observe or join us at anytime.

I think that anyone I have met on OCDO would leave and call the police if confronted by a person of questionable intent.

Ruby, you are best to ignore and move on from someone who wants this type of attention. You will find that there are people out there that ONLY want to push buttons. You will also find out that they are truly cowards and hide behind the internet. As you found out on Saturday, we are willing to meet in public and do not hide behind anonymity.

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Ruby wrote:

[...]I would be willing to challenge anyone to a fast draw. I can beat them even with my single action. You bet I can! Let me know where you meet and I'll be there. I have dreamed about this."[...]

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I think someone was yanking your chain.

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I would think if he is saying he wants to challenge someone to a quickdraw with a gun, then that would be a threat on someones life and at that point should be reported to the police. I am not a full blown OC'er, probably only OC 15%. I do however have alot of respect for those here who do, and OC or CC we are all carrying for the same reason (or should be), for personal protection. Sounds like you got a loose cannon. Ruby, I hate to say it but Craigslist Rants and Raves is exactly that, just for annomimous rants and raves. I would stick with forums that are moderated.

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Sounds like the guy just wants to stir things up and make OCers look bad. Heck, looks like he wants to make gun owners in general look bad. We have no legal right to bar him from a business, but I can say one thing for sure, and that is that if he started acting in a dangerous manner, the police would be called on him, and the situation would be dealt with in an appropriate manner.

We're not here to play quick draw. We're not here to see who's the best gunfighter. We're here to support our rights as Americans. Nothing more, nothing less.

I hope to see you at the Denny's meet on Saturday!

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G22Paddy wrote:

Sounds like the guy just wants to stir things up and make OCers look bad. Heck, looks like he wants to make gun owners in general look bad. We have no legal right to bar him from a business, but I can say one thing for sure, and that is that if he started acting in a dangerous manner, the police would be called on him, and the situation would be dealt with in an appropriate manner.

We're not here to play quick draw. We're not here to see who's the best gunfighter. We're here to support our rights as Americans. Nothing more, nothing less.

I hope to see you at the Denny's meet on Saturday!

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This is it exactly. I am afraid if he shows up and creates a problem, Starbucks may change their policy and no longer let us meet there. I would hope they would be more understanding than that; they stood up against the Brady Campaign people and more or less told them to take a hike. It would also give the anti's more "ammunition". I think that no matter what you say or what you do, someone is going to take offense. I didn't say anything that I thought he would take offense at; I even suggested that he join the Single Action Shooting Society. I think he would enjoy it. I have friend who is in it and loves it; they have shoots every weekend. He would be in his element and learn something too.

I appreciate the invitation to your meeting; I went to a meeting this last Saturday north of you. I imagine that there are different meetings in different places around the Sound. I already have plans butI would like to join you at a future time.

Thanks to all who responded to me. I never meant to seem like I would exclude anyone from anything. As all of us know, guns are a touchy subject to a lot of people. I just don't want anyone to get the wrong impression of us in general and OCer's in particular if this guy shows up and creates a scene. I knowthat you know what I'm talking about, just wish he did. And, yes, I am staying off of CL R&R. I don't go there but every once in awhile I check out what they're talking about and put in my two cents worth if it's something I am interested in. No one else on there at the time got the impression that they thought I was trying to exclude anyone.



T

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To 69Charger: This is Ruby. I am having trouble opening the 2 messages you sent me. I click on the box next to the message, but nothing happens. I have clicked and double clicked, can't open them. Can someone enlighten me please?

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Never mind, guys. I figured out how to open my inbox. Thanks for your patience!