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Thread: Considering first OC for a road trip at night

  1. #1
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    Hi folks! If this is in the wrong section, please feel free to move it. I've been lurking around here reading everything I can about OC and CC since I bought my first handgun last month (a Rock Island 1911 Tactical). It seems like this is a great community, and I feel like I'm much better informed now about my rights in Virginia.

    I'm posting this because I'm heading to Richmond tomorrow afternoon for a concert downtown with a small group of friends. The concert isn't getting out until probably after midnight, and I'm wondering if I should consider OC for the trip. The venue that the concert is being held at doesn't allow firearms though, so I would have to secure my 1911 in the trunk of my car until after the concert. I'm not sure if carrying tomorrow is the best idea, especially considering that it would be my first OC. I was just hoping to get some opinions and maybe some information that I should know if I OC for the road trip to Richmond.

    On a related note, is the holster that I bought legal for OC? It's a pretty basic model but it works well enough (although you definitely can't miss me carrying the 1911 as I'm 5'11 and only about 140 lbs. - it feels like I have a brick attached to my belt!):

    http://www.centerfiresystems.com/BH-BL.aspx


  2. #2
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Under VA law (and most other states) there are no legal requirements for holsters. If its comfortable, and keeps your firearm secure, it's OK. The only "requirement" for a holster that you need to be concerned with is your personal requirements--comfort, fit, practicality, and looks...

    I OC every time I drive up I-95 from NC to the MD area, which takes me through Richmond. I have never had any issues, but then again, I'm not usually OCing in Richmond at night in the "downtown" area either.


    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Thanks for the input, Dreamer! Is there anything special I should know about OC in a vehicle? Good actions to follow if pulled over by a LEO, etc.

    I do have a small handgun case with a simple key lock that I plan to secure my weapon in after I arrive in Richmond to head to the venue. If it's locked in the trunk, it's fine to leave the magazine and ammo in it right?

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Strelok wrote:
    Thanks for the input, Dreamer! Is there anything special I should know about OC in a vehicle? Good actions to follow if pulled over by a LEO, etc.

    I do have a small handgun case with a simple key lock that I plan to secure my weapon in after I arrive in Richmond to head to the venue. If it's locked in the trunk, it's fine to leave the magazine and ammo in it right?
    You can carry your gun holstered on your belt in a vehicle so long as it is not, "hidden from common observation". I take that to mean visible from outside the passenger window as I carry on my right hip. If you decide to lay it on the dash or the seat next to you, make sure nothing falls on top of it and renders it concealed. There is no requirement to notify LEOs (nor is it suggested to do so) if you are OCing.

    When I leave my gun in my car I just flip the safety on and store it in my glovebox round chambered mag in. A 1911 should already be in that condition anyway. (Currently working on a cheap strongbox for the trunk. I'm hesitant to pay $20 for a hasp on an $8 ammo can.)

    Having said that, there is no way I'd be caught unarmed downtown in Richmond at night. If I had a CHP and I knew the venue would not be checking for weapons I would just CC. Otherwise I'd get a refund.

    Oh and carry a voice recorder when you carry.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum Strelock.
    Dreamer covered it pretty well.
    You're OK in the car as long as it's openly carried. The seat is fine. The trunk is a good idea for storage.

    Since this is your first handgun, I hope you had some instruction. The 1911 is the only Auto I care for and a very safe design as long as you handle it properly. No lecture intended, I'd just hate to see a ND/AD on your first time out.

    Taking your handgun is definitely a good idea in Richmond.

    Hope you enjoy the concert!

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Dreamer wrote:
    I OC every time I drive up I-95 from NC to the MD area
    I hope you mean by the "Maryland Area" the "area" just South of the state line (in Virginia!)
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    @t33j - Thanks for the advice! I managed to find an ancient voice recorder tonight that I'll be taking with me tomorrow.

    @peter nap - No lecture taken, I'm always grateful for good advice. I'm actually an Eagle Scout, so I've handled firearms before and I'm comfortable working with them (not that it makes me an expert by any means). My brother bought his 1911 about 6 months ago and I've been able to handle it and shoot it quite a few times, along with my 1911 when I bought it in March. Other than that I've studied online training and safety videos and I'll be completing a handgun course next month so I can apply for my CC permit. I also don't carry with a round in the chamber, although that will probably change once I gain some experience OC'ing.

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    t33j wrote:
    There is no requirement to notify LEOs (nor is it suggested to do so) Not everyone suggests that.
    If I had a CHP and I knew the venue would not be checking for weapons I would just CC. Since the OP already stated that the venue doesn't allow firearms, your suggestion of what you would do is illegal and it is bad form to suggest that idea to someone else, especiallya new OC'er.


    but that's just my .02, and its worth every penny that you paid for it.
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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Strelok wrote:
    I also don't carry with a round in the chamber, although that will probably change once I gain some experience OC'ing.
    If you are carrying without a round in the chamber, then your gun is exactly the "brick on your belt" that you described.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Absent signage I'm pretty sure it's not trespassing until given notice. I agree it's probably bad form to suggest to someone new to carrying but I wouldn't be so fast to hit the illegal button.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-119
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    t33j wrote:
    Absent signage I'm pretty sure it's not trespassing until given notice. I agree it's probably bad form to suggest to someone new to carrying but I wouldn't be so fast to hit the illegal button.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-119
    Try 18.2-308 O
    James Reynolds

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    Welcome to our little world on the internet Strelok. Carrying your gun with you to and from Richmond is highly recommended. Just keep the gun and holster on your belt so that it is visible from your car windows (commonly observable) and you should be fine.

    Somebody here recommended getting yourself a voice recorder and I second the suggestion. You can pick up a decent one at Target or Wal-Mart for about $35 or $40. The reasoning behind this is so that you keep it on you while carrying in case you are stopped by police or have any trouble while OCing. Personally I keep mine on my person and running the whole time I OC practically anywhere other than at the homeplace. I find the Wal-Mart jewelry counter sells a small bead chain that works quite well for keeping the recorder around my neck and under my shirt. On this note, it may be worth your while to get some backup batteries for your recorder so that you have extra when you're out and about.

    If you've got any other questions, drop them on us. The wife and I OC while in Richmond semi-regularly and have yet to have any issue.

  13. #13
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    18.2-308 O is fine and all but the charge for refusing to leave private property (or being on private property, subject to the requirements of 18.2-119 below) while carrying would be trespassing no? How can someone who didn't look it up on the internet be expected to know the stance of the property owner? Maybe if it's written on the ticket that'd be considered "in writing".

    ...either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen...
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    t33j wrote:
    18.2-308 O is fine and all but the charge for refusing to leave private property (or being on private property, subject to the requirements of 18.2-119 below) while carrying would be trespassing no? How can someone who didn't look it up on the internet be expected to know the stance of the property owner? Maybe if it's written on the ticket that'd be considered "in writing".

    ...either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen...
    Yes, 119 is the trespassing statute. That is different than what we are talking about here.

    We're not talking about what "someone knows". In this case, the OP clearly knows the position of the property owner. His permit is not considered valid on private property when the owner has prohibited firearms.

    O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

    The OP is not authorized to carry the concealed handgun while on that private property.
    James Reynolds

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    ProShooter wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    18.2-308 O is fine and all but the charge for refusing to leave private property (or being on private property, subject to the requirements of 18.2-119 below) while carrying would be trespassing no? How can someone who didn't look it up on the internet be expected to know the stance of the property owner? Maybe if it's written on the ticket that'd be considered "in writing".

    ...either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen...
    Yes, 119 is the trespassing statute. That is different than what we are talking about here.

    We're not talking about what "someone knows". In this case, the OP clearly knows the position of the property owner. His permit is not considered valid on private property when the owner has prohibited firearms.

    O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

    The OP is not authorized to carry the concealed handgun while on that private property.
    And if it stayed concealed and he didn't know the property owner prohibited firearms, and the property owner didn't know the patron was carrying, I fail to see anything that would stick.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    18.2-308 O is fine and all but the charge for refusing to leave private property (or being on private property, subject to the requirements of 18.2-119 below) while carrying would be trespassing no? How can someone who didn't look it up on the internet be expected to know the stance of the property owner? Maybe if it's written on the ticket that'd be considered "in writing".

    ...either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen...
    The OP is not authorized to carry the concealed handgun while on that private property.
    The OP is not authorized to carry any handgun (by law or private property owner)... but we already knew that.

    Say someone OCs in, doesn't get stopped, and doesn't see signs. That wouldn't be different from someone who CCd in from the perspective of 308. The law doesn't authorize me to do anything. It doesn't grant liberty, it takes it away.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Thanks again for all of the advice. I did carry my 1911 last Thursday while on the road (and in the Sheetz in Forest and a random BP on the road). No comments or problems and just one double take from my cashier at BP (and one initial double take from someone riding along in my car).

    Once we got to the parking garage I locked it in the trunk in another locked case. I have to say that I really wished I had my CHP and the venue allowed CHP holders to carry, as things were pretty crazy at 11:30 at night when the show let out (it was the As I Lay Dying, Demon Hunter, War of Ages and blessthefall show if any of you were there). I re-holstered at the car, and I'm very glad that I did. In an effort to avoid all of the toll roads my GPS took us through some rough areas of Richmond for about 40 minutes and I swear we hit every red light along the way. It amazes me that so many people walk around alone at night.

    Anyway, all was uneventful and the show was great. Now that I've OC'd for the first time I will have to start doing it more often.

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    t33j wrote:
    When I leave my gun in my car I just flip the safety on and store it in my glovebox round chambered mag in. A 1911 should already be in that condition anyway. (Currently working on a cheap strongbox for the trunk. I'm hesitant to pay $20 for a hasp on an $8 ammo can.)...


    One comment on the glovebox. Until July 1 this year it is still not OK (for a non-CHP holder) to put your pistol in the glovebox or center console. I remind you of this because it is very easy to get in the car and start driving before thinking of re-holstering. In that case without a CHP you are concealing the gun.

    1911's were designed to be carried condition 1. Put a round in the chamber unless you simply plan to throw it at an attacker.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Yeah I realize that the few moments it is hidden about my person while I enter and exit is a failure to adhere to current laws. Without manipulating the gun, the alternative is to leave it in plain sight on a street littered with shattered window glass, and known for vehicle break-ins. Hence the strongbox which I completed just this week.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Placing the gun into the glove box while exiting the vehicle and the removal upon your return is perfectly fine and is not a violation. The time involved is negligible.
    James Reynolds

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    Pft. When you gotta leave it in the car make them (any potential takers) think you're keeping an eye on it with worse penalties for going for it. Just dangle it from the rear view mirror with a sign that says "I dare you."








    *don't

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Placing the gun into the glove box while exiting the vehicle and the removal upon your return is perfectly fine and is not a violation. The time involved is negligible.Â*
    Yes I agree. I was just warning that make sure you take it out upon return and not a half hour later driving down the road.

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Curtis wrote:
    Pft. When you gotta leave it in the car make them (any potential takers) think you're keeping an eye on it with worse penalties for going for it. Just dangle it from the rear view mirror with a sign that says "I dare you."

    *don't
    I would wait until technology caught up to where ROBOCOP had the vehicle security system that electrocuted then spit out any robbers. :-)

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Placing the gun into the glove box while exiting the vehicle and the removal upon your return is perfectly fine and is not a violation. The time involved is negligible.
    There is a fairly recent Supreme Court decision clarifying that although I don't have the cite right now.
    On July 1, you can put it in the glove box or any secured container all the time.

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