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Thread: OC help needed at upcoming Taylor City Council Meeting, 7:30pm on Tuesday May 18th

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Hello all,

    I am trying to organize a strong showing from our group at the next City of Taylor Council meeting. It is clear from speaking to city officials that they are unwilling to change these illegal ordinances. This is why it's important to show them that we won't just fade away.

    Link to Charter - in search box type firearms for bad ordinances.

    http://library1.municode.com/default...ction=whatsnew

    We wouldn't need to be there until 7:30pm on Tuesday May 18th. If you think you can make it, I've included a link to the address and map below.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=map+of+City+of+Taylor+23555+Goddard+Road+Ta ylor,+MI+48180&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=23555+Goddard+Rd,+Taylor,+MI+4 8180&gl=us&ei=-driS4_fO4XENs23uZUD&sa=X&oi=geocode_result &ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBsQ8gEwAA

    If you need more info or have questions send me a PM.

    Thanks in advance for any support.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  2. #2
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I'll be there

    Who else is in?

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Sec. 20-60. Firearms, hunting, trapping.
    No person shall in any park hunt, trap or pursue wildlife at any time. No person shall use, carry or possess firearms of any description, air rifles, spring guns, bows and arrows, slings or any other forms of weapons potentially inimicable to wild life and dangerous to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges or any kind of trapping device. Shooting into any park areas from beyond park boundaries is forbidden.
    (Ord. No. 82-130, § 7(D)(1), 10-26-82)
    Cross references: Weapons generally, § 19-226 et seq.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Oh - it gets worse if you break said "illegal law" not only are you charged with a crime, your pistol is taken and sold at auction for a profit....nice:what:
    __________________________________________________ ____
    ARTICLE VI. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC SAFETY
    Sec. 19-226. Confiscation of firearms and replica firearms.
    (a)All weapons, guns, pistols, firearms, knives, dirks, razors, stilettos, or any other sharp edged or pointed instruments or weapons carried are hereby declared forfeited to the city.
    (b)All replica and imitation firearms, as defined in section 19-239, carried or possessed by any person are hereby declared forfeited to the city.
    (Ord. No. 75-51, § 6.8, 2-11-75; Ord. No. 08-428, 2-19-08)

    __________________________________________________ ____

    I've talked with folks in their PD and they know that OC is legal and they won't be enforcing the bogus ordinances. This makes it even more confusing as to why the elected officials are so opposed to amending them?
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    BC they don't want to lose and perceived power...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:
    Hello all,

    I am trying to organize a strong showing from our group at the next City of Taylor Council meeting. It is clear from speaking to city officials that they are unwilling to change these illegal ordinances. This is why it's important to show them that we won't just fade away.

    Link to Charter - in search box type firearms for bad ordinances.

    http://library1.municode.com/default...ction=whatsnew

    We wouldn't need to be there until 7:30pm on Tuesday May 18th. If you think you can make it, I've included a link to the address and map below.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=map+of+City+of+Taylor+23555+Goddard+Road+Ta ylor,+MI+48180&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=23555+Goddard+Rd,+Taylor,+MI+48180&gl= us&ei=-driS4_fO4XENs23uZUD&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=titl e&resnum=1&ved=0CBsQ8gEwAA

    If you need more info or have questions send me a PM.

    Thanks in advance for any support.
    Glock9mmOldStyle,

    Could you describe what steps were taken up to now to convince City of Taylor to revise illegal Ordinances? Did anyone presented this at City Council meeting in the past? When did it happen?. Who did you talk to, if anyone? Was it over the phone, or via e-mails? Did you ever talk to City Attorney? Other details are also appreciated.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Phone calls, & in person meetings with several officials. MOC research director Venator has also been in contact with them. So far they wont budge.


    I believe MOC members in the past have also informed them of these violations. I am a newer member so I can't give the history there. One thing is clear they are in no hurry to change any of the codes.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    sasha601 's post gave me another idea (thanks sasha). I will type out a letter, make copies and take them to the council secretary and ask that they be distributed to all members of council, the mayor and corporate counsel. I will also hand deliver a copy to the Clerks office and ask that it be entered into the City record.

    I will be attending another meeting with the mayor on May 11th attempting to give them yet another chance to correct this issue.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  9. #9
    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
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    I'm in
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Look forward to seeing you, Doug & whoever else makes it out MC

    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    Master Control wrote:
    I'm in
    Y hallo thar.


    If it's not another all nighter maybe we can get a carpool from hereabouts?

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Another excellent idea!
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:
    Another excellent idea!
    The only reason I have the all-nighter disclaimer there is because at the City of Warrens council meeting public comments weren't heard until, Midnight I think...it was ridiculous on a weeknight...

  14. #14
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    If I can get Wednesday off, I'll be there too. I'm assuming OC is the proper attire?

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    Contacting City Attorney is critical. He is the one who should provide official Notice to City Council that Ordinances are unlawful. Until City Attorney officially declares to City Council that code is out of line with State Law, they will just play stupid and will not react. After some research, I found that John Martin is Taylor's City Attorney. Mr. Martin's contact and mailinginformation is as follows:

    John Wm. Martin, Jr.

    38505 Woodward Ave.

    Suite 2000

    Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304

    jmartin@plunkettcooney.com

    (248) 594-8249 phone

    (248) 594-4040 fax



    I would suggest that you at minimum do the following:

    1. Draft a letter addressed to Mr. Martin explaining the situation.Point out to him that City can not ignore unlawful ordinances once the City was informed about violation.Ignoring will expose city to potential liability if anyone is arrested and/or gun confiscated under these Ordinances.

    2. State in the letter that copies will be send to the Mayor, City Council and Police Chief. Police chief is critical. This puts Police Dept. on notice and will make it more difficult for them to shield against liability by pleading ignorance.

    3. Make sure letters to City Attorney, Mayor, City Council and Police Chiefare sent through USPS Cerified Mail with Returned Receipt.

    4. Once Returned Receipts came back, scan them and post on this forum. Also make copies and present with other things for City Clerk to enter into the city records. Note and record any obstructions you encounter from any of the city officials during this process.

    5. Try to get it done prior to May 17 City Council meeting. Have all documents ready and present at the meeting. State in your speach that City is now is officially on notice regarding this issue.





  16. #16
    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    I'm free that Tuesday. The council meeting is important because it brings the issue to light in a public forum. It's the "candy is dandy but liquor is quicker" theology.

    I would be happy to share a ride w/ you fatboy!
    United we STAND!

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    To: All members of Taylor City Council May. 6, 2010
    Cc: Council Secretary, Ms. Susan Riddle, Corporate Counsel, Mr. Martin
    Mayor Lamarand, City Clerk Mrs. Reilly
    The purpose of this letter is to inform you once more, that the City of Taylor is in violation of the Michigan Constitution regarding the “Open Carrying” of side arms by law abiding citizens. As stated in previous communications the following ordinances are not valid as written:
    [size=Sec. 20-60. Firearms, hunting, trapping.
    No person shall in any park hunt, trap or pursue wildlife at any time. No person shall use, carry or possess firearms of any description, air rifles, spring guns, bows and arrows, slings or any other forms of weapons potentially inimicable to wild life and dangerous to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges or any kind of trapping device. Shooting into any park areas from beyond park boundaries is forbidden.
    (Ord. No. 82-130, § 7(D)(1), 10-26-82)
    Cross references: Weapons generally, § 19-226 et seq.]

    [size=ARTICLE VI. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC SAFETY
    Sec. 19-226. Confiscation of firearms and replica firearms.
    (a)All weapons, guns, pistols, firearms, knives, dirks, razors, stilettos, or any other sharp edged or pointed instruments or weapons carried are hereby declared forfeited to the city.
    (b)All replica and imitation firearms, as defined in section 19-239, carried or possessed by any person are hereby declared forfeited to the city.
    (Ord. No. 75-51, § 6.8, 2-11-75; Ord. No. 08-428, 2-19-08)]

    In theory a person legally in procession of a pistol could be illegally detained, charged with a crime and have their pistol taken away by the City for simply exercising their constitutional rights to protect themselves and others under State law. These illegal ordinances not only place an unjust burden on citizens, it leaves the City liable for litigation should a member of the police department attempt to enforce them. These are simple issues to correct either by changing the wording or simply deleting the non compliant portions of the ordinances.
    Michigan Open Carry Inc. and its members attempt to work in a positive and cooperative manner whenever possible with local units of government. When these cooperative initiatives fail the group will attend city functions or facilities in mass, to educate the public on their rights and responsibilities under Michigan law and to draw attention to local ordinances that violate the law. It is my understanding that Taylor has received much negative publicity recently. I see no reason why this issue should have to devolve into more bad press for Taylor, if these concerns are addressed in an expeditious manner.
    Sincerely,
    XXXX XXXXXX
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    The letter will be dropped off in the morning as a temporary measure and placed into the city records until I carry out sasha's plan later tomorrow.:celebrate
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  19. #19
    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    Taking comments?

    If so, and if this hasn't been finalized yet:

    Replace "City of Taylor is in violation of the Michigan Constitution regarding "

    With "City of Taylor is in violation MCL 123.1102 which reads, in pertinent part, "A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce and ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms... except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state."

    Delete "(b)All replica and imitation firearms, as defined in section 19-239, carried or possessed by any person are hereby declared forfeited to the city.
    (Ord. No. 75-51, § 6.8, 2-11-75; Ord. No. 08-428, 2-19-08)]" - Replicas and imitation firearms are not protected by state law.


    Please strongly consider deleting or revising "It is my understanding that Taylor has received much negative publicity recently. I see no reason why this issue should have to devolve into more bad press for Taylor, if these concerns are addressed in an expeditious manner." - More flies with honey. It might be best to simply stick to facts, everything else is really just fluff. Fluff gets fluffed off.

    Just my $0.02, you might get a nickel refund!




    United we STAND!

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    Not from Taylor but I will attend.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Will do. That's why I posted it.

    Thanks Jeff
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  22. #22
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    JeffSayers wrote:
    Taking comments?
    Also, PLEASE have someone who is proficient with English proofread your letter.

    You are representing all gun owners, and things like "a person legally in procession of a pistol" are veryembarrassing.

    Please ensure your letter is perfect in spelling and punctuation. If you don't know anyone else who can help you, PM me.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    DanM wrote:
    JeffSayers wrote:
    Taking comments?
    Also, PLEASE have someone who is proficient with English proofread your letter.

    You are representing all gun owners, and things like "a person legally in procession of a pistol" are veryembarrassing.

    Please ensure your letter is perfect in spelling and punctuation. If you don't know anyone else who can help you, PM me.
    Also, please don't take offense to this, it's just....a fact. None of us have perfect spelling or punctuation all of the time, but in a formal letter like this, it's a must.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    I never claimed to be an English professor. I like you make mistakes. Thanks for pointing it out in such a kind way. I will send the document to you for your approval.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  25. #25
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    I'll plan on going there. I'd be up for meeting ahead of time as well.

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