OC help needed at upcoming Taylor City Council Meeting, 7:30pm on Tuesday May 18th

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Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:

I think the Chief is actually OK with OC, he's just doing what he has been told to do by the "powers" above him. He asked for members of MOC to come in and help with training, so I don't think PD is the issue here. It's the folks responsible for making/changing local law at fault. Go figure aye:question::banghead:

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Ok, gotcha

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You have to remember the chief works at the pleasure of the city council... they can fire him if they don't like anything about what he is doing...

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autosurgeon wrote:

You have to remember the chief works at the pleasure of the city council... they can fire him if they don't like anything about what he is doing...

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and he could quit possibly face criminal charges for anything seen as intimidating someone from attending a public meeting

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smellslikemichigan wrote:

autosurgeon wrote:

You have to remember the chief works at the pleasure of the city council... they can fire him if they don't like anything about what he is doing...

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and he could quit possibly face criminal charges for anything seen as intimidating someone from attending a public meeting

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I didn't take as intimidation on his part. He was passing along a message from Council & that was "they are very uncomfortable with armed individuals being there".

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i just said it could be construed in that manner, not saying he was intimidating. anything an officer of the law tells you "could be" mistaken as a lawful order. if he is not responsible, then certainly the city council who expressed the desire to not have any law abiding citizen should certainly be held accountable.
he and the council just need to choose their words more carefully.

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Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:

I didn't take as intimidation on his part. He was passing along a message from Council & that was "they are very uncomfortable with armed individuals being there".

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They're uncomfortable because they haven't experienced what DOESN'T happen with lawfully armed individuals around. Obviously, they're in need of as much of this positive experience as possible to help them out of their anti-gun ignorance and fear.

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I couldn't agree more DanM.

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dougwg wrote:

Why did you get a call?

How did the Chief know we were coming?

Don't tell me you gave them a headsup?

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Why Not ? Not Illegal To Make Phone Call .Nor to Educate by exchange of FACTS not fears ? Gods Speed To The Law Abiding !

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taxwhat wrote:

dougwg wrote:

Why did you get a call?

How did the Chief know we were coming?

Don't tell me you gave them a headsup?

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Why Not ? Not Illegal To Make Phone Call .Nor to Educate by exchange of FACTS not fears ? Gods Speed To The Law Abiding !

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dougwg wrote:

Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:

I think the Chief is actually OK with OC, he's just doing what he has been told to do by the "powers" above him. He asked for members of MOC to come in and help with training, so I don't think PD is the issue here. It's the folks responsible for making/changing local law at fault. Go figure aye:question::banghead:

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Ok, gotcha

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I asked why he got a call from the chief....

Not "why did you call?"

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Looks like my work schedule is going to allow for me to attend this meeting. Looking forward to seeing a large group in attendance.

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Most excellent.

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I wish I can attend, but I can not. I want to make some suggestions for the group who will attend:

- Speak during "public comments" part of the meeting. More people speak the better

- Call Taylor City Council and find out what is the process for making public comment. Some cities require you to fill a form prior to start of the meeting in order to speak. Some have comments at the beginning of the meeting, some at the end. You want to know exact process for "public comments" in order toprevent the opportunity for the City Council to deny you to speak based on technicality.

- Have your video and audio recorders with you. Have you video recorders in full view. I am not sure if Taylor City Council video records its meetings

- Ask City Attorney, Mr. Martin if he officially advised City Council on legality of the Ordinances in question. Below my two e-mails to Mr. Martin. So far hedid not resond to me:

email sent on 5/6/10:

Date: Thursday, May 6, 2010, 4:21 PM








Dear Mr. Martin,



In the past several months a number of citizens attempted to bring Taylor's Mayor, City Council and Police Chief attention to a couple of City Ordinances that are clearly unlawful under Michigan State Law. Unfortunately, these requests are being ignored. I believe that City Council needs an input from you as a City Attorney in order to understand the high level of liability that City and PoliceDepartmentare exposed to by ignoring knowingly unlawful firearm ordinances. Any arrest or confiscation of firearms under illegal ordinance can be potentially very costly to the City. I was told that city of Grand Haven, MI recently settled a federal lawsuit wherecitizen was arrested under illegal firearm ordinance.



Below are the ordinances in question:



ARTICLE III. USE REGULATIONS
Sec. 20-60. Firearms, hunting, trapping.
No person shall in any park hunt, trap or pursue wildlife at any time. No person shall use, carry or possess firearms of any description, air rifles, spring guns, bows and arrows, slings or any other forms of weapons potentially inimicable to wild life and dangerous to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges or any kind of trapping device. Shooting into any park areas from beyond park boundaries is forbidden.
(Ord. No. 82-130, § 7(D)(1), 10-26-82)
Cross references: Weapons generally, § 19-226 et seq.

ARTICLE VI. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC SAFETY
Sec. 19-226. Confiscation of firearms and replica firearms.
(a)All weapons, guns, pistols, firearms, knives, dirks, razors, stilettos, or any other sharp edged or pointed instruments or weapons carried are hereby declared forfeited to the city.
(b)All replica and imitation firearms, as defined in section 19-239, carried or possessed by any person are hereby declared forfeited to the city.
(Ord. No. 75-51, § 6.8, 2-11-75; Ord. No. 08-428, 2-19-08)



Above Sections are illegal and unenforceable because MCL 123.1102 preempts local regulation offirearms. It states:



123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.


Sec. 2.
A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

History: 1990, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991






I believe that as a City Attorney you have an obligationto informCity Council, Mayor and Police Department ifit becomes known thatthe ordinance is illegal. Please research this matter and provide recommendation to the City officials accordingly. I am confident that you will arrive to the same conclusionand will determine that both Sections need to be repealed orrevised in order to be aligned with State Law. Please do not hesitate to contact me regarding this matter.



e-mail sent on 5/13/10:

Dear Mr. Martin,



Did you have a chance to review City of TaylorOrdinances, Sec. 20-60 and Sec. 19-226 in respect to legality under State Law? I believe it is clear that above Sections are in violation of the State firearms preemption statutes. I would like to request that you provide City Council and Mayor's office with your official position on this matter. Please let me know if this can be accomplished ahead of the next City Council meeting scheduled on 5/18. I strongly believe that as a City Attorney, your position on this matter should be free of any politics and that you can simply provide legal assessment based on the Law. I also hope that you can respond to my e-mail either via reply or via phone call at

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I'll be attending.

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I'm not familiar with where these meetings are held in taylor, is it ok to OC to the meeting?

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detroit_fan wrote:

I'm not familiar with where these meetings are held in taylor, is it ok to OC to the meeting?

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OC is OK but not required. Here is the map

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=map+of+City+of+Taylor+23555+Goddard+Road+Taylor,+MI+48180&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=23555+Goddard+Rd,+Taylor,+MI+48180&gl=us&ei=-driS4_fO4XENs23uZUD&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBsQ8gEwAA

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detroit_fan wrote:

I'm not familiar with where these meetings are held in taylor, is it ok to OC to the meeting?

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Hi - DF,

They are held at City Hall. There are two entrances one on the west side of the building & one on the north side. It's about a 1/4 east of Telegraph Rd. on the south side of Goddard. If you need detailed directions just send me a PM with the general area you are coming from & I'll map it out for you.

I'll be there wearing my Glock in a leg drop holster and I plan on speaking. The more folks that OC the more likely the Council is to finally figure out that they are wrong! :cuss:

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sasha601 wrote:

- Speak during "public comments" part of the meeting. More people speak the better

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I suggest the folowing: Limit speakers to 2-3 speakers speaking for no more than 2-3 minutes. Be brief, be bright, and be gone.

One speaker should be a leader of Michigan gun rights - when she is nearly finished speaker, she should ask all in the audience who generally agree with her to quietly stand, than thank the council for their time.

The other 1-2 speakers should be LOCAL gun owners - LOCAL means a street address in that localitiy.

More action follows outside as repoters interview attendees and speakers.

Good luck!

Has anyone issued a press release?

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I had to work that evening. Buuuuut, after such a lovely request by the City Council through the police chief for all open carriers to attend the next council meeting, how could I refuse. What's that you say, they requested I NOT attend? My mistake, but seeing as how I already traded shifts with a coworker, I'll just come anyways(Sigma 9mm on my hip, of course). They won't mind, will they?

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scot623 wrote:

I had to work that evening. Buuuuut, after such a lovely request by the City Council through the police chief for all open carriers to attend the next council meeting, how could I refuse. What's that you say, they requested I NOT attend? My mistake, but seeing as how I already traded shifts with a coworker, I'll just come anyways(Sigma 9mm on my hip, of course). They won't mind, will they?

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:celebrate

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:celebrate:celebrate:celebrateautosurgeon wrote:

scot623 wrote:

I had to work that evening. Buuuuut, after such a lovely request by the City Council through the police chief for all open carriers to attend the next council meeting, how could I refuse. What's that you say, they requested I NOT attend? My mistake, but seeing as how I already traded shifts with a coworker, I'll just come anyways(Sigma 9mm on my hip, of course). They won't mind, will they?

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:celebrate

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