I called in an MWAG

Possmo · May 6, 2010

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I'm in Columbus, GA and the GF and I frequently do late grocery runs at the Airport Throughway Wallyworld. It's about 10:30AMand we're leaving the store. As we walk toward our car I notice two guys (early 20s'ish, white, shorts, waistbands down to midhip)hanging out at the end of the row.Both facing each other passing something back and forth and I'm thinking, "Here is the elusive drug dealer in his natural habitat." That's just the impression I got on the fly as we got to our vehicle. As we begin to pull out of the spot I get a great view of the object they're playing with and it's a nice shiny pistol.

They hadn't seen us or we'd have gotten out of Dodge. So we stopped the car, I took the girlfriends cellphone and made a 911 call. As I'm doing this these guys are aiming at the ground, the air, the people walking up the row and having little giggle fits. Here's where I start to get the impression that it's a pellet gun or a plain old toy but it's got no orange markings andI'm taking no chances. I tell the 911 op the situation, the car tag and the fact that these two guys had just been joined by two other people and are taking off. Dispatcher tells me that they'll have someone check it out. We hang up.

So as I stated, midway into all of this I got a strong impression that this may be a toy. It did look real enough though. My gf figured it could have been a nickel plated gun but I had enough time to observe how light it looked in their hands. Having parked on the opposite side of the opposite row I had the benefit of that time for observation. Real or not, I have a strong feeling that, if we'd have chanced to have parked in the same row as these two, and I walked right up and past themI may havebeen involved in a shooting in self defense. Considering that they were pointing this thing all over the place, I'm sure they'll get themselves killed eventually if this is normal behavior.

I've been a concealed carrier for the past two years or so but I've been lurking here trying to educate myself before I decide to take the plunge and OC.

Oh, there's usually an Allied Barton security car at this location. Lookin' all yellow flashy and stuff. It was absent. There was a police cruiser at the entrance we used, but it was empty during this entire event.

Edit for adding that this was Monday night.

Superlite27 · May 6, 2010

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I say good on you.

If these numbnuts were tossing a loaded pistol around, they deserve to get nailed. IMHO this is an instance where the "brandishing" charge that LEO's usually try to trump up against those who responsibly leave our firearms holstered should be used.

My guess is that these wingnuts probably found out that OC was legal and figured that meant anything goes.

Or, you never stated a concrete fact that the firearm was, indeed, real. It very well could have been a toy.

Did you inform the operator precisely of their careless actions and that it could be a toy or else they were being extremely careless?Or did you offer the typical "OH MY GOD! HE HAS A GUN!"?

As a responsible citizen, did you follow up with the officers who responded, or did you dial and dash?

What was the outcome? Were they cited? Arrested?

After all, dialing 911 is a responsibility in itself. Many may view it like phoning in a pizza order..."Hello? Yeah, could I get some cops over in such-and-such parking lot? O.K.thanks! Buh-bye!"

Myself, I view emergency calls as a responsibility. When I call the cops, I would find out the outcome and explain myself to the cops, find out if they need additional information, and at least get their business cards.

Possmo · May 6, 2010

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I did not follow up and I would imagine that they left the area without incident as they were gone before we left. I like to think myself a responsible citizen but not to the extent that I'd tail this particular vehicle. That's for the police responder to do. They've got the tag number, general direction of exit, four detailed descriptions of person and I was in a car, in no danger and not interested in changing that status.

As I said, had I been in that same row and ended up in a situation where I walked up on two knuckleheads waiving a gun in my direction. It would have been a different story.

I want to think it was a toy gun because the other option was that these guys were so careless with their own lives that they'd act this way with a real weapon. From the distance I had to view the event, at night, the gun seemed light in the hand. Again, the gf could be right and it may very well have been just a really shiny finish and my perception of weight could be off. There were no markings that screamed "toy" though.

aadvark · May 7, 2010

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First off, Concealed Loaded Carry of a Pistol, even with a Georgia Firearms License, is Illegal per Georgia Code 16-11-128, as is codified under Part 3 Article 4 Chapter 11 Title 16 volume 14A of The Official Code of Georgia Annotated.

Secondly, there is no Brandishing Statute in Georgia.

However, there is Georgia Code 16-11-102, which prohibits pointing a Pistol, or other Firearm, whether Loaded or Unloaded, towards another, unless in Self Defense, per Georgia Codes 16-3-21 through 16-3-27.

If the People involved were not old enough to have a Pistol, they could have been charged with Georgia Code 16-11-132, Carrying a Pistol by someone under 18.

Even if they were atleast 18, they still could have been Charged with 16-11-128, Carrying a Pistol without a License, if they did not have a Georgia Firearms License.

Which brings me about to my last point, they could ahve been Charged with the same Crime as many other Persons can, Carrying a Concealed Loaded Pistol, even if the same is Loaded.

Good News though, 16-11-128 stands repealed the second The Governor signs SB 308, hopefully sometime next Week!

groats · May 7, 2010

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aadvark wrote:

First off, Concealed Loaded Carry of a Pistol, even with a Georgia Firearms License, is Illegal per Georgia Code 16-11-128, as is codified under Part 3 Article 4 Chapter 11 Title 16 volume 14A of The Official Code of Georgia Annotated.

No. It is not. You are wrong.
Concealed carry with a GFL is completely legal.
Open carry with a GFL is completely legal.
Loaded or not, your choice.
Concealed carry requires the gun be in a holster or belt clip.

O.C.G.A. § 16-11-128
Carrying pistol without license
(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a pistol without a license when he has or carries on or about his person, outside of his home, motor vehicle, or place of business, any pistol or revolver without having on his person a valid license...

If you do not have a GFL, and are engaged in hunting, fishing, sport shooting, etc, then the gun must be visible, or if not visible, unloaded:

provided that no permit shall be required for persons with a valid hunting or fishing license on their person or for persons not required by law to have hunting licenses who are engaged in legal hunting, fishing, or sport shooting when the persons have the permission of the owner of the land on which the activities are being conducted; provided, further, that the pistol or revolver, whenever loaded, shall be carried only in an open and fully exposed manner.

IOW, if you have your hunting or fishing license, but no GFL, and are hunting or fishing, you can carry an unloaded gun in a backpack or whatever (concealed). If loaded, it must be visible.

(IANAL, but I do trust the many lawyers who belong to GCO. They all agree. Nevertheless, common sense says get a license, it makes things easier all around.)

aadvark · May 7, 2010

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Okay..., I concede.

groats · May 7, 2010

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Possmo wrote:

I'm in Columbus, GA and the GF and I frequently do late grocery runs at the Airport Throughway Wallyworld. It's about 10:30AM and we're leaving the store. As we walk toward our car I notice two guys (early 20s'ish, white, shorts, waistbands down to midhip) hanging out at the end of the row. Both facing each other passing something back and forth and I'm thinking, "Here is the elusive drug dealer in his natural habitat." That's just the impression I got on the fly as we got to our vehicle. As we begin to pull out of the spot I get a great view of the object they're playing with and it's a nice shiny pistol.

Back on topic: except for the age and the "pants on the ground" part, that could have been me and a fellow GCO member trading guns.
We did exactly that a couple of weeks ago, on the sidewalk at a strip mall. With real guns.

Cleared the gun, checked it out, traded some cash, went on our way. No panic, no police.

Some may call it profiling - but the way I see it, if you don't want to get suspicious looks, then don't look suspicious.
IOW, appearance is nearly as important as actions.

Possmo · May 7, 2010

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I tried to keep the descriptions light. While I won't lie and say that appearances didn't have an impression overall I didn't call in a man with saggy pants. If his pants were falling off but the gun was still holstered I'd have just had a laugh with the girlfriend and left.

I don't feel like an idiot to body language. This was two guys goofing off and possibly with a deadly weapon. Definitely didn't give the impression of a gun sale.

golightly00 · May 7, 2010

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(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a pistol without a license when he has or carries on or about his person, outside of his home, motor vehicle, or place of business, any pistol or revolver without having on his person a valid license issued by the judge of the probate court of the county in which he resides, provided that no permit shall be required for persons with a valid hunting or fishing license on their person or for persons not required by law to have hunting licenses who are engaged in legal hunting, fishing, or sport shooting when the persons have the permission of the owner of the land on which the activities are being conducted; provided, further, that the pistol or revolver, whenever loaded, shall be carried only in an open and fully exposed manner.

(b) Upon conviction of the offense of carrying a pistol without a license, a person shall be punished as follows:

(1) For the first offense, he shall be guilty of a misdemeanor; and

(2) For the second offense, and for any subsequent offense, he is guilty of a felony, and, upon conviction thereof, shall be imprisoned for not less than one year nor more than five years.

(c) On and after October 1, 1996, a person licensed to carry a handgun in any state whose laws recognize and give effect within such state to a license issued pursuant to this part shall be authorized to carry a handgun in this state, but only while the licensee is not a resident of this state; provided, however, that such licenseholder shall carry the handgun in compliance with the laws of this state.

Where does it say it is illegal to carry a concealed loaded gun, even with a license? I think you should read 16-11-128 again.

rmodel65 · May 8, 2010

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aadvark wrote:

Okay..., I concede.

:banghead: you post this all the time about no loaded CC

Neo · May 11, 2010

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Possmo wrote:

....and I'm thinking, "Here is the elusive drug dealer in his natural habitat."....

Ha ha! I love that line...reminds me of Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom with your host, Marlin Perkins!

Possmo, you did the right thing. Those are exactly the kind of guys who injure themselves or others and who give law-abiding gun owners a bad name. They were foolish, careless, and were definitely brandishing.

aadvark · May 11, 2010

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rmodel65,

I love to make that arguement, as it has been made to me before by a Deputy Sheriff of the County in which I live, based on His reading of the Statute.

If you read 16-11-128 carefully, the last part of 16-11-128(a) does say something about '...whenever loaded...shall be carried only in an open manner fully exposed to view.'

Now, remember, I conceded my arguement in light of the Hunting Arguement, but the Statute says what it says.

However, it does not matter anyway because The Governor seems poised to sign both Senate Bill 291 and Senate Bill 308 into Law sometime this Month! These measures take effect immediately upon His Signature! Under Senate Bill 308, Georgia Codes 16-11-126, 16-11-127, and 16-11-128 are all repealed as we know them and are all replaced with easy to read, easy to follow, clear and concise Laws. Surely, there will be no more argueing over rather it is Public Gathering or not, or whether one must Conceal or Opnely Carry or not, as, all of these things will be repealed! It will be a brand-new day for Firearm-Rights in Georgia!

Sincerely,

aadvark

Kingfish · May 11, 2010

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aadvark wrote:

...Surely, there will be no more argueing over rather it is Public Gathering or not, or whether one must Conceal or Opnely Carry or not, as, all of these things will be repealed!

No, there will be a whole new batch of arguing....

:cuss:

I would love for GA to turn into one of the FREE states.

groats · May 11, 2010

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I would like someone to cite a court case where someone was convicted for open carry in a place that otherwise allows carry. (In Ga)

Remember, this has to be for openly-carrying a gun only, not for carrying without license, carrying while committing another crime, etc.

Kingfish · May 11, 2010

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groats wrote:

I would like someone to cite a court case where someone was convicted for open carry in a place that otherwise allows carry. (In Ga)

Remember, this has to be for openly-carrying a gun only, not for carrying without license, carrying while committing another crime, etc.

http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/2009/05/20/gco-member-files-motion-for-summary-judgment-in-illegal-arrest-case/

If you need more, let us know.

Edit:
Just noticed you said "convicted." To me it does not matter. An arrest is bad enough. Especially on a weapons charge.

groats · May 11, 2010

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kingfish wrote:

groats wrote:

I would like someone to cite a court case where someone was convicted for open carry in a place that otherwise allows carry. (In Ga)

Remember, this has to be for openly-carrying a gun only, not for carrying without license, carrying while committing another crime, etc.

Click to expand...

http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/2009/05/20/gco-member-files-motion-for-summary-judgment-in-illegal-arrest-case/

If you need more, let us know.

Edit:
Just noticed you said "convicted." To me it does not matter. An arrest is bad enough. Especially on a weapons charge.

Sorry, that does not qualify - he was charged with "carrying a concealed weapon" - not for open carry.

And, the officers admitted that he was openly carrying.
All of which proves that the police can and will arrest for any or no reason, if they don't like the way you look.
Should that stop us from exercising our constitutional rights?
(Somewhat like Driving While Black)
Should we stop driving if we are the wrong color?
Because we know we will get stopped more often.

wazzie · Jul 25, 2010

Possmo said:
I'm in Columbus, GA and the GF and I frequently do late grocery runs at the Airport Throughway Wallyworld. It's about 10:30AMand we're leaving the store. As we walk toward our car I notice two guys (early 20s'ish, white, shorts, waistbands down to midhip)hanging out at the end of the row.Both facing each other passing something back and forth and I'm thinking, "Here is the elusive drug dealer in his natural habitat." That's just the impression I got on the fly as we got to our vehicle. As we begin to pull out of the spot I get a great view of the object they're playing with and it's a nice shiny pistol.

They hadn't seen us or we'd have gotten out of Dodge. So we stopped the car, I took the girlfriends cellphone and made a 911 call. As I'm doing this these guys are aiming at the ground, the air, the people walking up the row and having little giggle fits. Here's where I start to get the impression that it's a pellet gun or a plain old toy but it's got no orange markings andI'm taking no chances. I tell the 911 op the situation, the car tag and the fact that these two guys had just been joined by two other people and are taking off. Dispatcher tells me that they'll have someone check it out. We hang up.

So as I stated, midway into all of this I got a strong impression that this may be a toy. It did look real enough though. My gf figured it could have been a nickel plated gun but I had enough time to observe how light it looked in their hands. Having parked on the opposite side of the opposite row I had the benefit of that time for observation. Real or not, I have a strong feeling that, if we'd have chanced to have parked in the same row as these two, and I walked right up and past themI may havebeen involved in a shooting in self defense. Considering that they were pointing this thing all over the place, I'm sure they'll get themselves killed eventually if this is normal behavior.

I've been a concealed carrier for the past two years or so but I've been lurking here trying to educate myself before I decide to take the plunge and OC.

Oh, there's usually an Allied Barton security car at this location. Lookin' all yellow flashy and stuff. It was absent. There was a police cruiser at the entrance we used, but it was empty during this entire event.

Edit for adding that this was Monday night.

You could have reasonably threatened them with deadly force until Law Enforcement arrived, if you felt that the gun was real and there was an imminent threat to the safety of yourself and the public. However, you would have needed to notify dispatch that you had several people at gunpoint and needed them to respond code-1 very quickly. Otherwise, the LEOs might have thought you were the bad guy.

You handled the situation very very smartly though, because if it were real - you would have likely had to pull the trigger under the scenario above.

SlackwareRobert · Aug 24, 2010

Boy you missed the chance of a lifetime. OC and go back in store, when asked to leave tell them "No way, there are a bunch of kids out there with a gun" That aught to throw store manager for a loop.

+1 You reported the actions, gave them the plate. Now it is up to the police to take action.

I called in an MWAG

Possmo

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Superlite27

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Possmo

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aadvark

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groats

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aadvark

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groats

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Possmo

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golightly00

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rmodel65

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Neo

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aadvark

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Kingfish

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groats

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Kingfish

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groats

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wazzie

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SlackwareRobert

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