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Thread: can u shoot a man for killing your dog?

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    does washington law allow you to shoot a man for killing your dog right in front of you? the dog thread reminded me of this question. if you are out walking your dog, or are at a dog park, and a man just randomly but purposely shoots your dog, or kills him by whatever other method, can you legally shoot him?

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    69Charger
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    I think dogs are considered possessions. You would face a hard, long, legal road ahead.
    Dave

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    Regular Member Bob Warden's Avatar
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    Tony Santiago wrote:
    does washington law allow you to shoot a man for killing your dog right in front of you? the dog thread reminded me of this question. if you are out walking your dog, or are at a dog park, and a man just randomly but purposely shoots your dog, or kills him by whatever other method, can you legally shoot him?
    No.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Bob Warden wrote:
    Tony Santiago wrote:
    does washington law allow you to shoot a man for killing your dog right in front of you? the dog thread reminded me of this question. if you are out walking your dog, or are at a dog park, and a man just randomly but purposely shoots your dog, or kills him by whatever other method, can you legally shoot him?
    No.
    new scenario, your standing there with your dog on the leash and a guy shoots your dog, how do you know your not next, you can not shoot him? If someone is running up to you with a baseball bat can you shoot him? If in these cases why would you let him get as far as the dog to find out it is the dog he's after and not you.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    First of all, if someone just shot my dog right in front of me, chances are, I would shoot him. If he just drew a firearm and fired at my dog, how I am suppose to know he isn't going to fire at me? Not a chance I'm willing to take.

    Would anyone here feel even remotely safe if some psychopath just drew a firearm and shot your dog, right in front of you?

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    69Charger
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    Well if you feel that your life is in grave danger, then you have the right to protect your self.
    Dave

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    Only if you have a reason to feel that your life is in danger.

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    Quilbilly wrote:
    Only if you have a reason to feel that your life is in danger.
    And I think it's safe to say that most sane people would at that point.

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    You're out walking your dog... and you see a man pull out a gun and point it in your direction

    *STOP*


    He MISSES you and hits your dog

    *STOP*




    It's all about perspective...


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    I'm pretty sure there isn't a person alive who wouldn't take some sort of immediate action under these circumstances.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    You're out walking your dog... and you see a man pull out a gun and point it in your direction

    *STOP*


    He MISSES you and hits your dog

    *STOP*




    It's all about perspective...

    Komo 4 news..... Park gun ban lifted, dog shot.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    I would "suggest" being VERY careful how this situation is reported. Witnesses supporting YOUR version would be VERY beneficial.

    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
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    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    The short answer is NO. But if he was shooting in your direction an hit the dog. Or was wielding a weapon that could harm you as he struck down near you hitting the dog. This being said... Who's to say he wasn't going for you? I would hope to see him pay in other ways other than with his life, though.

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    shooting at my dog is shooting at me especialy if im WALKING him.

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    amzbrady wrote:
    Bob Warden wrote:
    Tony Santiago wrote:
    does washington law allow you to shoot a man for killing your dog right in front of you? the dog thread reminded me of this question. if you are out walking your dog, or are at a dog park, and a man just randomly but purposely shoots your dog, or kills him by whatever other method, can you legally shoot him?
    No.
    new scenario, your standing there with your dog on the leash and a guy shoots your dog, how do you know your not next, you can not shoot him? If someone is running up to you with a baseball bat can you shoot him? If in these cases why would you let him get as far as the dog to find out it is the dog he's after and not you.
    Good point, Amzbrady !

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    If someone pulls a gun and points it in my general direction, more than likely I would be in fear for my life, and with that I'd be justified under law to use deadly force to defend myself. However, every situation is unique, we can't exactly predict the future.

    Assuming I have a dog:

    If he shot my dog before I had time to react to him shooting my dog, and the gunshot got my attention, and I turned to see him with a gun, I would be in fear for my life and most likely draw. Assuming I drew my sidearm, either he would point his at me, at which point I would most likely take aim and fire, or he would stand down in some form and I would most likely not shoot. There may be other ways the situation could go. There are too many variables to say for certain either way.

    If he drew in my direction and I had time to react before he shot my dog, I'd draw down. If he continued to point toward my direction after I draw, I would most likely fire. If he stood down, I'd most likely not. Once again, too many variables to say for certain either way.


    Aside from anything that would put you in fear for your life: Simply based on the fact that it's your personal property being damaged, you would not be justified.

    HOWEVER: If it were done in a manner that posed an immediate threat to your life, or posed an immediate threat of great bodily harm to you, then you would be justified.

    That's all I can say for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    Sounds like this guy was really pissed off at your dog. I for one would have pulled a secret service move and thrown myself in front of the dog to protect him from the 1500 foot per second projectile and be a hero. People love it when you sacrifice your life for a pet. Its very stylish. Cheers

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Glock17 wrote:
    I for one would have pulled a secret service move and thrown myself in front of the dog to protect him from the 1500 foot per second projectile and be a hero. People love it when you sacrifice your life for a pet. Its very stylish. Cheers
    Don't forget to do it in slo-mo while yelling "noooooooooooooo.....!"

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    John Hardin wrote:
    Glock17 wrote:
    I for one would have pulled a secret service move and thrown myself in front of the dog to protect him from the 1500 foot per second projectile and be a hero. People love it when you sacrifice your life for a pet. Its very stylish. Cheers
    Don't forget to do it in slo-mo while yelling "noooooooooooooo.....!"
    Ok now that's funny right there.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    This is what the event might look like. Its disturbing to view.



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    Glock17 wrote:
    This is what the event might look like. Its disturbing to view.

    Refering to the pic on the previous post....

    With the LITTLE squirrel... someone might STILL get 2 for 1 EVEN WITH HOLLOWPOINT DEFENSE AMMO!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    New Scenario:

    You are browsing one of your favorite gun rights forums and somebody starts a thread asking abouta pet shooting. Then, not oneperson cites a statute or court opinion in their replies.

    1. Question: What happens to the thread. Answer: Read the preceding posts.

    2. Question: Can you shoot the posters for yakking around without actually answering the question with a legal cite?

    3. Question: Can you shoot the OPer for not recognizing nobody answered his question with a legal cite?



    For the person who directly answered the OPer's question without providing a cite:

    Forum Rule #7

    7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Tony Santiago wrote:
    does washington law allow you to shoot a man for killing your dog right in front of you? the dog thread reminded me of this question. if you are out walking your dog, or are at a dog park, and a man just randomly but purposely shoots your dog, or kills him by whatever other method, can you legally shoot him?
    Only if your life or a life of another is in immediate threat of life or limb or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

    Look at the related RCW's, but first a reminder at the Definitions of Necessary for a better understanding on the use of deadly force.
    RCW 9A.16.010 Definitions.
    In this chapter, unless a different meaning is plainly required:

    (1) "Necessary" means that no reasonably effective alternative to the use of force appeared to exist and that the amount of force used was reasonable to effect the lawful purpose intended.

    (2) "Deadly force" means the intentional application of force through the use of firearms or any other means reasonably likely to cause death or serious physical injury.

    As we read the following defenses they are all talking about people not our pets.
    RCW 9A.16.020 Use of force — When lawful.

    The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

    (1) Whenever necessarily used by a public officer in the performance of a legal duty, or a person assisting the officer and acting under the officer's direction;

    (2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody;

    (3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;

    (4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public;

    (5) Whenever used by a carrier of passengers or the carrier's authorized agent or servant, or other person assisting them at their request in expelling from a carriage, railway car, vessel, or other vehicle, a passenger who refuses to obey a lawful and reasonable regulation prescribed for the conduct of passengers, if such vehicle has first been stopped and the force used is not more than is necessary to expel the offender with reasonable regard to the offender's personal safety;

    (6) Whenever used by any person to prevent a mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or mentally disabled person from committing an act dangerous to any person, or in enforcing necessary restraint for the protection or restoration to health of the person, during such period only as is necessary to obtain legal authority for the restraint or custody of the person.
    RCW 9A.16.050 Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.
    I have a Shih Tzu and the thought of someone harming him would bring a harsh reaction from me as there would no way he could present a danger, all 10 lbs of him, knowing this they had to be shooting at me! or my gun went off accidentally trying to beat the dog off of him.

    He barks but his Owner BITES


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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Dogs don't have 'rights'..

    I believe it would fall under firearm discharge, reckless endangerment, and civil matters (vet bills, traumatic situation,etc)



    I vaguely remember reading an RCW, but I believe it was about animal cruelty....
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    Big Dave made the cites, so I won't repeat them, but if someone shot, or shot at, my dog while I was walking him, that means they have fired a weapon aimed in my direction, and I would be afraid I'd be next, or in other words, I'd be in fear for my life or serious bodily injury.

    My initial response would be to try to take the immediate threat out (he has already fired in my direction!) if I could, and I wouldn't be giving any warnings to see if he was going to drop his weapon or change his aim by a few degrees and take me out.

    Let's face it, with the assailant already having his weapon drawn, aimed in your direction, and having already fired at least once, you are coming late to the gunfight - you haven't even reached for your weapon yet.

    I don't believe there is time for the niceties of politely asking that he not fire in your direction again... :?
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