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Thread: Detained at the Doctor's

  1. #1
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    Today at my doctor I waited in a room for 40 minutes, before what looked like a bouncer showed up and informed me they had a no gun pol. This was my 2nd visit to this doc, last time no one said a single thing. He told meI could put it in the car and come back, and afterI asked a few questions like, do you have that pol. in writing, is there any signs, etc, I said i'd prefer to leave, and asked him to refund the money i paid when i checked in. he said he wouldn't refund my money if i didnt leave with the gun.

    so after a few back and forths...give me my refund, and i'll leave....no leave, then we'll refund you....i disarmed and came back in. they gave my refund and i asked since i waited almost an hour, if i could speak to the doc. since i agreed to disarmabout my questions or not, and they said they would check.


    (please ignore the disarming, i know....trust me i know....but i'm sick and i needed the doc. help...i stood my ground for a long time,.........please move on )


    2 metro show up and ask me whats going on, and i asked if i was being detained, they said yes. they knew my name and DOB. The doc. office gave them that. I said i preferred not to answer any questions without an attorney, and they handcuffed me and explained they were searching me for my identity and for safety. i said i did not consent to being searched, i am not resisting, you are violating my 4th amendment right. several times i asked for them to articulate their reasonable suspicion (which i know they dont have to)

    I was handcuffed, had my possessions removed (2 knives, car stereo, cell phone, spare magazine, id taken out of wallet.

    The officers asked if they wanted to press any charges, if i had done anything like threaten anyone, and they said no, just wanted me to leave. I told the officers the bouncer guy told me i could stay if i disarmed, which i did, and i was never told to leave. the bouncer tried to lie and say yes he told me to leave, but i told him that the nurse JUST went in back to check on my prescription and to see if the doc. would answer some questions, and he didnt want to say that was right infront of the officers, but i told him - say it, say it so they can hear it, you never told me to leave until AFTER these officers showed up. he said thats right, i didnt ask you to leave before.

    I've never been handcuffed before, it was really scary and I'm not sure what to do next.. This is a lot to go through, and i know it and that has to be tough. I'm just wondering if i should bother...if this will cause me any problems....any advice at all. if i should post this to the forum or if this is bad for the OCDO group.

    Thanks,

    Scott


  2. #2
    Regular Member greengum's Avatar
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    if you plan on taking legal action you should delete your post until you contact a lawyer

  3. #3
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    Greengum is probably right about taking the post down until you contact a lawyer. Metro seems to be up to it again. :shock:

  4. #4
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    Well thats what happens when we decide to relax and get lazy on the meetings. We need to keep going to help establish our rights as law abiding americans.

    GoDSpeeD

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    Agreed Godspeed. I've been lazy lately too not attending the meet ups, and I'm sorry for that. I'll be at the next one, rain or shine.

    I think this story is a good reminder that despite police coming a long way, they still have a long way to go. For this reason, I vote NO on the donating to police officers in any sort of fund raiser. There are plenty of worthy charities needing help, I won't donate any time or money to reinforcing this bad behavior by cops.

    So what doctor office was it? Or what area is it in? Sounds like we need to go do a meet up near there and make it known to the captain of that area command we're not going to tolerate unlawful behavior.

  6. #6
    Regular Member LvstudentDoc's Avatar
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    Please tell me what doctor this was as I am a medical student and will stay away from this person at all costs during rotations....when i am in practice if obama lets me practice that is, i will put a big sign on the door guns allowed and appreciated and will pay for some on my staff to go get a ccw! this is an interesting statistic:

    Doctors vs. Gun Owners


    Doctors

    (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is

    700,000.

    (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians

    per year are 120,000.

    (C) Accidental deaths per physician
    is 0.171.

    Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of
    Health and Human Services.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>

    Now think about this:

    Guns

    (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S.

    is 80,000,000.

    (Yes, that's 80 million)

    (B) The number of accidental gun deaths

    per year, all age groups, is 1,500.

    (C) The number of accidental deaths

    per gun owner is .000188.

    Statistics courtesy of FBI


    >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>

    So, statistically, doctors are approximately

    9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>

    Remember, 'Guns don't kill people, doctors do.'

    >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> >

    FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN,

    BUT

    Almost everyone has at least one doctor.
    This means you are over 900 times more likely to be killed by a doctor as a gun owner!!!


  7. #7
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    I'm still really distressed by this whole event. They are summit medical group, rainbow and charlston, NE side of the road. If anyone plans to do anything about this, it would seriously make me feel better. I'm not sure if I should bother taking any action or not, I'm not even fully aware of my options. I feel like they violated my privacy (both the doc. office for giving police my name/dob and police for searching me - inside wallet - without any crime being committed), but it was over rather quickly and the police were mostly professional. I just can't believe this happened still. Even after waking up today, I'm still in a bit of shock.

  8. #8
    Regular Member flagellum's Avatar
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    It sucks because we will never know what info the cops had. For all we know they called them and said, "A man walked in with a gun and is refusing to leave, I'm scared." Either way having not even been accused of a crime (if anything, trespassing which doesn't merit a search) you didn't deserve to be treated like that.

    Honestly what concerned me most is them giving your personal information to the police. Such a gross violation of privacy rights. I would never visit that place again.
    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
    -- Charles A. Beard
    XD(m) 9mm

  9. #9
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    On the surface, given what I read and understand of the incident, I'm not really sure the cops did anything wrong. They received a call concerning a man with a gun in a doctors office. They could have been told anything. When they got there the person of interest was still there and they acted with caution. Seems to me the doctors officemay have some culpability in the way they handled it. They took his money presumably knowing he was armed. He sat there for 40 minutes until confronted. They gave out his name and personal information which may be a violation of theHIPPA laws. My advise for what it's worth, get this off here, seek out legal council and get a copy of the call from the doctors office to the police, presumably 911.

    BG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

  10. #10
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    Considering what just happened to you, legal action I feel should be taken, the doctors office broke huge laws and acts in place by giving your information out to the LEO without a warrant http://www.soxlaw.com/ http://www.hipaa.org/ our patient records are protected under laws and every doctors office, hospital etc must be compliant to these acts and regulations. your name and DOB are part of your records and the only reason they knew them is because of the papers you filled out at the office those are considered records, I know for a fact that a LEO or agency cannot get any of these records without proper warrant. Not to mention you constitutional rights being infringed, do you have a report number or a response number? you need to get that and have any and all records of the stop provided to you. I would definitely seek legal advice as not only were your rights infringed your confidentiality that is protected by law was broken.

    moving on I would be more then willing to take a day and picket while OCing this doctors office. You might even want to contact the local media and tell them your story, however, seek legal console first and foremost. Most attorneys wont require a retainer for the first visit to see if you have a case or not.

  11. #11
    Regular Member SCJeffro's Avatar
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    You came on and asked for "what should I do" advice and I think you got decent suggestions. If this was me I would have driven from the DR's office straight to a Lawyer's office!

    The only way to get stuff like this to STOP is to take action when it happens...

    IMHO WAY too many people just let stuff like this pass, when they should take action!!
    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution

  12. #12
    28kfps
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  13. #13
    28kfps
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    Wow that is some story. I was at my Doctor and was carrying concealed. I ware what they call a belly band holster. (Of all the conceal holsters I have tried it works the best for me) Any ways I decided to leave the firearm in the car. With x-rays and the check up had to take my shirt off and did remove the empty holster two of the nurses asked me if I had a bad back thinking it was some kind of back support I told them it was a holster and the firearm was in the car. Both of them one in the examining room the other in the x-ray room said they would have no problem with me bring it in. So the next time I went in carrying concealed and kept the gun on. The Doctor had me remove my shirt saw the top part of my XD40 and said nothing.

    I have to agree there is no telling what kind of information they gave Metro over the phone. However I do believe they were over the top.

    Lostlittlerobot

    You are receiving a lot of advice and opinions on what you should do and what someone else says they would do if they were in your shoes. This is a decision only you can make for yourself. No one here will be living in your house if the decision you make turns out to be wrong or if it creates a long term hardship on you and your family. While most of us would like to see all those that did you wrong get reprimand and have to apologize, you are the one that will have to live with your decision. If you decide not to do the legal things maybe consider issuing a formal complaint to Metro, the officer’s supervisor, to the Doctors office and corporation? Because of reading some of the stories posted I am thinking of buying me one of those mini- pocket recorders hopping once the open carry questions start I can start recording what is said without them knowing it. Later type out what was said in case the say the recording cannot be used. I would just say I had a good memory of the conversation. However in this case after they had you empty your pockets it may have hampered the use of the recorder. Good Luck.

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    28kfps wrote:
    Later type out what was said in case the say the recording cannot be used. I would just say I had a good memory of the conversation. However in this case after they had you empty your pockets it may have prevented the full use of it. Good Luck.
    In Nevada, only a single party is required to know a conversation is being recorded....you are that one party, as long as you know it's being recorded, which you do since it's your recorder, the burden is met.

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    timf343 wrote:
    28kfps wrote:
    Later type out what was said in case the say the recording cannot be used. I would just say I had a good memory of the conversation. However in this case after they had you empty your pockets it may have prevented the full use of it. Good Luck.
    In Nevada, only a single party is required to know a conversation is being recorded....you are that one party, as long as you know it's being recorded, which you do since it's your recorder, the burden is met.
    Tim I have looked for that NRS and have had a hard time finding it. Do you know which it is?

  16. #16
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    NRS 200.620


  17. #17
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    HIPPA violation bigtime! Someone in that office could be in big trouble if you pursue it.

  18. #18
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    You don't even need a lawyer to report a HIPPA violation. http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/faq/index.html
    That disclosure was no accident! I would be fired from my hospital in a heartbeat for doing that crap. ALL info in a patients chart is protected information.

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    It was previously suggested that you get the 911 tape of the call to metro. The person who gave metro your information probably also gave his/her name! This would be a clear violation of HIPPA regulations caught on tape, hopefully?

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    Steamlocofan wrote:
    It was previously suggested that you get the 911 tape of the call to metro. The person who gave metro your information probably also gave his/her name! This would be a clear violation of HIPPA regulations caught on tape, hopefully?
    My thoughts exactly. HIPPA regulations are no laughing matter. I would remove all details of the incident and seek a lawyer for both cases, the cops who violated your civil rights and the clinic that violated your privacy rights.

  21. #21
    Regular Member SCJeffro's Avatar
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    So what is going on with this issue? Is something being done about it?
    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution

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    wow....i go to Summit Medical group on Lake Mead...I always CC....never had any problems there..
    The cops did there job, The office help screwed up...Call Hippa, and file a complaint..
    Get a lawyer...

    just my 2 cents worth

  23. #23
    28kfps
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    It would appear this encounter and the replies may have overwhelmed the original poster Lostlittlerbot no replies from him for the past few days.

    My take on some of the latest encounters is when on private property make sure the requester knows right up front and without any doubt you plan on complying to whatever they ask then proceed with trying to educate them on the local laws trying at the same time to make them more comfortable with a legally carried firearm.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    LvstudentDoc wrote:
    Doctors

    (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is

    700,000.

    (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians

    per year are 120,000.

    (C) Accidental deaths per physician
    is 0.171.

    Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of
    Health and Human Services.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>

    Now think about this:

    Guns

    (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S.

    is 80,000,000.

    (Yes, that's 80 million)

    (B) The number of accidental gun deaths

    per year, all age groups, is 1,500.

    (C) The number of accidental deaths

    per gun owner is .000188.

    Statistics courtesy of FBI


    >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>

    So, statistically, doctors are approximately

    9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>

    Remember, 'Guns don't kill people, doctors do.'

    >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> >

    FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN,

    BUT

    Almost everyone has at least one doctor.
    This means you are over 900 times more likely to be killed by a doctor as a gun owner!!!
    The problem is that you've ignored intentional deaths, which are, unfortunately, quite significant in one case but not the other.

    The problem is that there aren't many intentional deaths caused by doctors, but there are actually many more intentional deaths by handguns than there are accidental.

    Now, of course, I don't blame the guns. I actually just look at this as an example of why I generally prefer to avoid statistics in my arguments, as all too many statistics are egregiously manipulative or deceiving, or just plain irrelevant (I would put yours in this last category).

  25. #25
    Regular Member SCJeffro's Avatar
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    marshaul wrote:
    The problem is that you've ignored intentional deaths, which are, unfortunately, quite significant in one case but not the other.

    The problem is that there aren't many intentional deaths caused by doctors, but there are actually many more intentional deaths by handguns than there are accidental.

    Now, of course, I don't blame the guns. I actually just look at this as an example of why I generally prefer to avoid statistics in my arguments, as all too many statistics are egregiously manipulative or deceiving, or just plain irrelevant (I would put yours in this last category).
    I have to say I completely disagree here... While you are correct it did NOT include intentional death statistics it was CLEARLY statistics specific to "Accidental deaths" on BOTH sides...

    Look at it this way... If I was to post statistics specifically about "car accident fatalities due to speeding" VS "motorcycle accident fatalities due to speeding" I would obviously not include "car fatalities due to drunk driving" That doesn't mean the latter type of deaths do not happen but rather they don't fit within the specific category shown in the statistics...

    The intentional deaths you are talking about are completely irrelevant in regard to the statistics posted as it obviously didn't reference this type of deaths.

    Now do the statistics posted have any relevance to the original post? Hmmm I don't know... Kinda?? lol They are fun things to know!


    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution

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