Thug wandering intersection Charlotte NC

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Beliveau wrote:

He was dressed in, as I recall, jeans and a hoodie (hood up). I saw him at two different cars as I approached the intersection and pulled up - then he came to me (next, and last, in line).

In NC it is absolutely legal to open carry in the car as long as it is visible to the officer. With a CCW you can conceal of course.

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OK. I think you did OK. A little gun-biased in handling the begging thug. But legal.

Luckily, the guy was not a real threat. He was just wanting a handout.

I think you were smart in leaving the 30 feet of room before stopping. That leaves hitting the accelerator as an option to deal with a real threat. Shooting a firearm from inside a car with the window down is no picnic. Possibly ineffective, too, with a 9mm.

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Thanks. I don't think he was a real threat either, with my window closed.

I don't think he was a normal beggar though. He was talking gibberish, just enough to make it so that you didn't understand him and would roll your window down. I've got 20 years in a career where you have to size up people quickly and read body language, so Im pretty sure of my perception.

Another clue - he had on pretty new clothing and sneakers, a bit too sharply dressed to be down and out.

In what way do you feel I was too gun biased? I would have gone to the gun if necessary (i.e. if he produced one), but I didn't brandish it.

Perhaps for debate - had I dropped my hand to the grip of the gun but left it holstered, that would technically not be brandishing I don't believe. Still, I didn't touch it.

I was happy that I thought of leaving space as well.

If he had produced and aimed a weapon, and if I had no other escape,I would have fired through my closed window if necessary. A 9 will definately carry enough energy to be effective doing so, especially at 3 feet away. Would not be good for the hearing, but if your life is threatened that's the least bad option.

Good dialogue lads, always open to learn.

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Beliveau wrote:

Was travelling in Charlotte, NC off Morehead St - not a particularly bad neighborhood but not great. As I came up to a three way intersection there was a dude in a hoodie wandering up to each car stopped at the light and tapping on the drivers side window. He was going from car to car and obviously getting rebuffed.

As I pulled up to the end of the line in the intersection I left about 30 feet between the next car and mine to give me options, and reached over to the glovebox where I keep a Smith M&P 9. I clipped the holster onto the passenger seatbelt and waited.

The dude came up to my window, both hands visible but holding something small in the fingers of his left hand, that I couldnt see. As he approached the car I held up my hand in a "no" sign, he kept approaching, wanting me to roll down the window

As he got to the window he started talking at me but it was unintelligible. I just kept my head facing forward but watched him closely behind my sunglasses. He made no bad moves but after his third attempt without leaving I dropped my right hand towards the M&P. He said something loudly and left

Not a big deal but if he had drawn a weapon I had mentally prepared to fire through my driver's window.

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I think you could have handled it better by leaving the gun out of it unless it escalated. You mention that he was going "from car to car", and "made no bad moves". What he said was unintelligible so you cannot affirm any threat.

I might be missing something but you may have overreacted. Was there something you observed in his interactions with other cars that caused you concern or was it just that he was slow to move on. He could have been asking for help for all you know since what he was saying was unintelligible. All I am saying is that a gun should be used to deal with threats not nuissances.

I am not criticizing you for being prepared but you elude to the fact that the gun was visible to the individual. I think you would have been better served to have it in hand but not visible in case it was needed. And unless you really felt threatened you should have left it out of it altogether. Or if you wanted it visible to have it so but not reach for it unless you felt threatened. BY your post you do not indicate you felt threatened, but were just annoyed and unsure of what was in a visible hand. You kept your window rolled up which is good.

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I'm amazed at how many on here think you can tell a cop to bug off! Have i committed a crime? Whats your probable cause? Am I being detained? May I go now?

Seems as though the respect for an officer in Uniform is Nill for the most part, But you think you have to kiss the ass of a Punk/thug/beggar unsolicited to your immidiate space and probable safety zone for fear of offending him.. B.S !I say !!



#1. would be Politely No Thanks and/or the internationally understood "HALT" hand gesture that the OP said he employed.

#2. Would be with a louder voice Back the FU&$ off and get out of my space .

#3. Would be engaging 911 and the handgun simotaniously.. because the next vehicle pulling up to the traffic signal after i leave could be my Teenage daughter, Mom , or Grandmother.. Just a little too much for my conscience after pulling away and rehashing all the what iff's..

I think the original poster was a lot kinder than i would have been. and believe it of not the scumbag/bum/beggar/thug walked away unscathed to try his ploy on most likely a more unsuspecting victim on his next effort.

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Hi Rottie, thanks for your post... I've read your thoughts and have to respectfully disagree. Here's why:

When I said he wasn't making bad moves, I mean he wasn't pounding on cars or obviously carrying a weapon. However there was something in his behavior that was aggressive. Definately scamming people to open up the window, a young dude with attitude.

I'll submit to you that I actually DID leave the gun out of it. I merely made sure that I could access it more quickly.

I normally leave the gun in the glove box, which is proper for carry in North Carolina. However, when I pulled up to the intersection and saw the guy's behavior I quickly was on alert because we've had carjackings by armed robbers in this area.

Because of that, I moved the gun from the glovebox to an openly carried position on the seat, where I would have faster access. This is also legal within North Carolina..
At no time did I touch the weapon. The guy was standing in a public intersection looking into my car and saw it on the seatbelt.

Did I feel threatened? Close. On high alert. Had I felt endangered the weapon was available though.

Will continue thinking through your advice though, because it is important that all of us who take on the responsibility of carrying, do so with balance.

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Beliveau, Thanks for disagreeing respectfully! There is not enough of it at times on this forum. Also thanks for adding detail to your experience. It really helps to have those few extra details when considering how someone reacted. Thanks also for having the courage to share your experience knowing that you'll get praise and criticism alike. This is how we are able to learn from one another. I appreciate that you took no offence from my reply to your post as certainly none was intended. Considering the new detail that you added I am less likely to percieve what you did as an over reaction, and I ceratinly have no criticism for having a gun available or visible, this is Opencarry.org after all. As I thought of your experinece and what might have been done differently, I thought that moving your hand in the direction of the gun was a bad idea with no real perceived threat. However your elaboration on the events and statedhistory of carjackings in the area do offer more to consider than the original post.

One thing that I have thought about in trying to learn from your experience, is the need to check mirrors and blind spot while being approached at your window, to see if there are others that could be a threat. Make intermittent eye contact, not a stare, and keep looking for acomplices coming from other directions!Get out of the area when you can and call the police with a description of the subject, location, and his behaviors.

Thanks again for sharing your story and letting us all learn from it! I am certainly not perfect and don't always do everything right. What gives this forum so much diversity is that we all see things differently and the threshold of when to pull and use a gun is different for each of us. In the end I cannot criticize you because you were there, I wasn't. Thanks again!

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Citizen wrote:

Beliveau wrote:

SNIP As he got to the window he started talking at me but it was unintelligible. I just kept my head facing forward but watched him closely behind my sunglasses. He made no bad moves but after his third attempt without leaving I dropped my right hand towards the M&P. He said something loudly and left

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May I suggest for consideration handling it another way.

All it would take is for the panhandler(?)to noteBeliveau's license plate number and call the police, andBeliveau ends up with a charge for menacing, brandishing, or whatever is NC's version.

By Beliveau's own statement, the guy "made no bad moves." Yet,Beliveau solved the uncomfortable situation by calling attention to the availability of deadly force.

We have tobe more saavy than that.

I would also suggest never resorting to the gun, even displaying or calling attention to it, unless really, really necessary. And, if you do, make sure you are the first one to call the police and report the assault. Do not let a repelledbad guy call the police first. According tocop reports on this forum, whoever calls the police first is generally treated as the victim.

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Itsall ways saferto call dial a pizza or even an ambulance in Aus,! Last time I called the police, a few years ago,I was told they were busy and would get to me as soon as possible. Several calls later, Im still waiting. When I call dial a pizza they usually arrive in about 20 min's. Call an Ambulance, they arrive in about10 min's. Keep it loaded and ready at all times Beliveau. In Aus., they pull women out of their cars and drive off even with babies in the back, no worries at all. You see, we have been dissarmedand the criminals know we are defenceless.

Haz.

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I posted this in "Who needs a gun in Australia" thread this morning. All this this unarmed victim could do is hand over his car keys and watch criminals drive away with his BMW. Once a rare crime downunder this now happensall the timesince the gun ban.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/carjackers-point-gun-at-driver/story-e6frfku0-1225871816223
Breaking news

Carjackers point gun at driver
From: AAP May 27, 2010 4:35AM
MASKED men pointed a gun at the owner of a $100,000 BMW during a car-jacking in Sydney's CBD, police say.

The 31-year-old victim was standing at the boot of his car on Elizabeth Street last night when the thieves rolled up in their own BMW and threatened him with the weapon.

The man handed over his keys and the pair drove off, while an accomplice fled in the getaway car.

Police are appealing for anyone who has seen the blue BMW M5 sedan, with NSW registration BFI 62Y to contact them.

They are also seeking information about a silver-coloured BMW sedan.

Members of the public are urged not to approach the men, but to contact triple zero or Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.

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When did the gun ban go into place in Australia?

How did they do it, i.e. did everyone have to turn in their weapon?

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Beliveau wrote:

When did the gun ban go into place in Australia?

How did they do it, i.e. did everyone have to turn in their weapon?

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Hi Beliveau.

In 1996 the Howard Liberal and National party ratifieda "National Firearms Agreement."

Among other measures the NFA Banned semi automatic rifles, and semi automatic shotguns, and pump action shotguns. Over 600,000 were surrendered to police for destruction under a tax payer funded "buy-back" scheme at an estimated cost of mor than AU$500.000.000. Yes, thats five hundred million dollars.

According to Prim minister John Howard, the scheme was designed to.........get rid of dangerous guns in Australia and make it a safer place in which to live. This goal of making Australia a safer place in which tolive was echoed by Attorney General Daryl Williams. Gun prohibitionists strongly supported this view stating this law would deliever a safer community for all Australians.

Fourteenyears later an ever increasing body of research shows that the ban and buyback had absolutly no impact on the pre-existing decline in firearms homicide, in fact all data now shows a gradual increase in firearm related crime. Revising history, in an effort to disguise the miss-direction of public funds behind statements of 'success' of anti gun lobbyists now assert the sole intent of the buy-back was toprevent mass shootings. Further more even if the premise that the buy-back was designed to prevent mass shooting is accepted, there is no justification for the claims of success. Mass murder in Australia is an extreemly uncommon event, and mass shootings even rarer thus rendering robust analysis problamatic. Consequently there is no reliable evidence to support ahat the buy-back hascaused the absence of a rare event.

In short, the bans and the multi-million dollar buy-back did not achieve what the Australian Prim Minister himself claimed the whole scheme was designed to deliver; namely, improved community safety for all Australians who funded the scheme.

Onlyligitimate, licenced, long time sporting shooters and hunting shooters were permitted to keep onlythe firearms declared as "legal."ie, I had to hand in my Remington pump action shotgun which I usedin thick scrub and swampy waterways when hunting ferel pigs.We could keepour hand guns and any high powered rifles, lever actions,which were still legal firearms as long as they were registered andthe owner waslicenced to use. All firearms were categorised. Here is the site below.

Regards,

Haz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

Firearms categories

Firearms in Australia are grouped into Categories with different levels of control. The categories are:

• Category A: Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic), shotguns (not pump-action or semi-automatic), air rifles, and paintball markers.

• Category B: Centrefire rifles (not semi-automatic), muzzleloading firearms made after 1 January 1901.

• Category C: Semi-automatic rimfire rifles holding 10 or fewer rounds and pump-action or semi-automatic shotguns holding 5 or fewer rounds. (Restricted: only primary producers, occupational shooters, collectors and some clay target shooters can own functional Category C firearms)

• Category D: Semi-automatic centrefire rifles, pump-action/semi-automatic shotguns holding more than 5 rounds (functional Category D firearms are restricted to occupational shooters; collectors may own deactivated Category D firearms).[2][/suP]

• Category H: Handguns including air pistols, deactivated handguns and guns less than 65cm long. Target shooters are limited to handguns of .38 calibre[disambiguation needed][/suP] or less.

(Participants in "approved" competitions may acquire handguns up to .45", currently Single Action Shooting and Metallic Silhouette. IPSC shooting is not "approved" for the larger calibres, for unstated reasons. Category H barrels must be at least 100mm (3.94") long for revolvers, and 120mm (4.72") for semi-automatic pistols, and magazines are restricted to 10 rounds. Handgun collectors are exempt from the laws stated above.)

• Category R/E: Restricted weapons: machine guns, rocket launchers, assault rifles, flame-throwers, anti-tank guns, Howitzers, artillery, etc. (Collectors in some states only, weapons must be comprehensively deactivated. Deactivated firearms are still subject to the same storage and licensing requirements as 'live' firearms in many states.)

Antique firearms can in some states be legally bought without licences. In other states they are subject to the same requirements as modern firearms.

All single-shot muzzleloading firearms manufactured before 1 January 1901 are considered antique firearms. Four states require licences for antique percussion revolvers and cartridge repeating firearms but in Queensland and Victoria a person may possess such a firearm without a license, so long as the firearm is registered.

Australia also has tight restrictions on air pistols, airsoft guns, and replica firearms, including toys that look realistic. Suppressors (or 'silencers') are extremely restricted and generally not available to most shooters.[3][/suP]