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Thread: DUI roadblock last night

  1. #1
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    I haven't got all the details yet, but there was a DUI roadblock set up last night on High Point Road, between Greensboro and High Point. My 25 year old son was returning from picking up my wife from work after 11 pm, when they got stopped.

    It sounds like a joint task force was performing the stop including UNCG campus police. It was a UNCG officer that approached my sons vehicle.

    The more my wife and son related the story to me, the madder I got. My son had a Beretta open carried in his lap and declared so to the officer. The officer reached in and took the pistol while asking if there were more weapons in the car. He then asked if he could search the car to see if there were more weapons. My wife agreed to the search (even after I have advised previously, not to).

    The officer ran the serial numbers on the pistol, something I believe to be illegal unless there is reasonable cause to suspect that there is illegal activity going on.

    They were finally released and allowed to leave. I will post more details as I get them.















































  2. #2
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    The dashboard might have been a better location if it was possible. Checkpoints can be touchy situations...I can imagine that an unholstered gun in the drivers lap would make an officer nervous.

    Granted, I've been through checkpoints plenty of times without issue. I'm thinking the officer's main concern was that a gun in the lap is essentially being "handled".

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    Regular Member TheFreeman's Avatar
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    She should not have consented to the search. And the officer should not have taken away the weapon without probable cause.

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    They were asked questions that were not germaine to the stop, such as where you coming from?, what are you doing out this late?, what's your relationship to each other?

    I agree that the pistol should have been on the dash. It wasn't the best area to have it. The officer reached through the window and snatched it up.

    Question is does UNCG security even have any jurisdiction that far from campus. The roadblock was out by Lineberry funeral home (near Mackey (sp) Rd. The UNCG cop did call for a deputy to come over to assist.

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    TheFreeman wrote:
    She should not have consented to the search. And the officer should not have taken away the weapon without probable cause.
    Well that sure sounds intelligent, but do you know what you're talking about? Probable cause is the point at which enough evidence exists to justify an ARREST. Did you perhaps mean reasonable suspicion? Unfortunately even that is a gray area because we're talking about a DUI checkpoint.

    The driver was in possession of an UNSECURED firearm. Secure in a holster is one thing. Set on the dash at arms reach is one thing. A gun sitting in the driver's lap is completely different. He could have kindly asked the passengers to keep their hands hanging out the windows until they were through. Would you be complaining any less about that? Probably not.

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    the pistol was in a holster, if that is what you consider to be secured. in a holster, in his lap.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    With regards to Campus police for state universities, they are, for all intents and purposes the same as State Police. They are employees of the State (not the college, or the city) and therefore have the same jurisdiction as a State Patrol officer. This campus officer could technically pull someone over if he was in Nags Head or Fayetteville or anywhere in the state where a State Policeman has jurisdiction...

    But the pistol was still loose--in his lap. Had the holster been on his belt--WHERE IT BELONGS--then it would have been "secured", and much more difficult for the officer to snatch.

    Of course, the only legal way to wear a pistol on your hip in a car is if you have a CHP.

    Again--this is one of those situations where a CHP just makes life a LOT easier. Hand the officer your DL and your CHP card, and that is usually the end of the encounter.

    It sucks, but it's the reality of the situation here in NC. If you have a CHP, it makes these interactions a LOT smoother...

    If he routinely drives around at night with a firearm to pick your wife up from work, what is his excuse for NOT getting a CHP? And besides, I feel that EVERY person who OC's should also get a CHP, even if you don't ever intend on CCing, because it boosts the numbers of CHP holders, and strengthens our position as being "normal, average people"...

    And you need to remember, when they "run your serial number" what they are REALLY doing is entering the gun's description and your DL info into the BATFE's Federal eTrace database. This is essentially a Federalized Gun Registration program, being done under the stealth of "searching for stolen firearms". The eTrace is program is a BLATANT violation of the 2nd and 4th Amendments.

    NC does not require gun registration, and maintains NO database of lawfully-owned guns. Unless they have reason to believe your firearm has been used in a crime, running the serial number is a DIRECT violation of the 4th Amendment.

    And they should not have consented to a search of their vehicle without a warrant. That was a monumental 4th Amendment FAIL.

    When we do not exercise our rights, they are quickly lost...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    I totally agree Dreamer. and the bitch of it is, it was my pistol that now is in a data base. he had borrowed it. I agree that he should get his CC, I have mine and agree that it makes for easier vehicle carry.

    also not having the officers name makes it impossible to complain to the authorities (an attempt to educate the officer on citizen rights)

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    Dreamer, don't get me wrong, I hate the running the numbers crap. But they do have a database of firearms that have been reported stolen. They are potentially looking for a hit there too. The problem with that is there is ZERO RAS that a firearm is stolen if you are OC'ing it. Any RAS that the LEO could come up with would be entirely in his head as far as I'm concerned. I bought a firearm from a guy that was bought and traded a few times before. I had a family member run the number on it to see if it came back stolen. All they needed was the Serial # of the gun. YMMV

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I know there is a state database for stolen firearms. And that when an LEO seizes a firearm in a traffic stop (or an on-foot OC-related stop) they DO run it through that database. But they are using that as an excuse to ALSO enter the firearm description, serial# and your PERSONAL information from your DL into eTrace.

    I've got no problem with police attempting to locate stolen firearms, when they have probable cause to believe that a particular firearm may be stolen.

    What I have an issue with is a non-voluntary de-facto Federalized registration program, and that is what eTrace REALLY is...

    A legally carried firearm is NOT probably cause or RAS for an LEO to assume that a firearm is stolen.

    Did they also run the VIN of his vehicle to see if the car was stolen too? Probably not. And THAT brings this into a violation of the "Equal Protection" clause...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    draconian to say the least. both the vehicle and pistol are mine. I have read about etrace and without RAS, this is a definate violation of our rights.

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    I would say that the DUI checkpoint was a violation of your rights as well.

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    I agree Griz, but they are a fact of life, expecially as the weather turns nicer.

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    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ba1_1256674130

    eTrace ATF fraud and corruption exposed by *retired* Law Enforcement Officer

    "Are you aware that the BATFE has for several years been aggressively offering eTrace to local law enforcement agencies? They have the agency sign a memorandum of agreement and then the agency can run traces on any firearm they wish. The catch is that the agency has to agree to run a trace on ALL CRIME GUNS. The MOU defines a CRIME GUN as:

    "The parties agree that a 'crime gun' is defined as "any firearm that is illegally possessed, used in a crime, taken into police custody, or suspected by law enforcement officials of having been used in a crime."

    The key word in this definition is "taken into police custody." I have been a law enforcement officer for over thirty years and held positions up to the rank of Commander. Only a very small portion of firearms that are taken into custody could possibly be considered a "crime gun." TV and movies aside, we run into very few "smoking gun" cases where we have a firearm left at the scene a crime, and it is a rare instance that knowing who was the first lawful purchaser of a firearm would serve any investigatory purpose. We take hundreds of firearms into custody as found property, safe-keeping, recovered-stolen or in possession of individuals who have been arrested. In all those cases, including arrests, it is of very little consequence who bought the gun from Acme Sporting Goods ten years ago.

    If you expand the term "taken into police custody" to include any firearm that an LEO has temporary custody, such on a traffic stop of an otherwise lawful firearms owner, you could literally be running traces on hundreds of guns for no legitimate purpose. For larger department it could run into the thousands.

    I first heard of this program in a meeting with the local U.S. Attorney and BATFE. I asked them if we could have the software and only trace firearms when we needed to know their origin. I was told that they wanted a trace done on ALL firearms and that if we only wanted to do a few, we could do it the "old" way by making a request to the local field office. In other words, we want all the gun traced that we can. When I told them that was a waste of valuable police resources, they changed the subject.

    As far as I am concerned, eTrace is a fraud perpetrated by the BATFE to swindle Congress and the public out of funding for a program which serves very little legitimate purposes.

    I recall watching a congressional budget hearing on CSPAN a few years ago where the director of the BATFE was telling the audience that they were receiving an increasing number of requests for firearms tracing from law enforcement agencies and needed more funding to accommodate them. Funny that they never mentioned that they were begging for the traces to be run. You can also see on their webpage how they brag how successful the etrace program is.

    An "unintended consequence" of having law enforcement trace all the guns they come in contact with is that a good number of these firearms end up traced back to local FFLs. As you know, when an FFL has a certain number of "CRIME GUNS" traced back to them, they can be put on some sort of probation and are subject to increased record keeping and sharing requirements. This is grossly unfair to the dealers as the majority of firearms traced have been purchased legally and have not been used to commit a crime.

    I thought you would find this information interesting. Please feel free to contact me for verification or further information."

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    Which part of high point rd? I drive on it a lot going back and forth to school.

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    "Of course, the only legal way to wear a pistol on your hip in a car is if you have a CHP."





    I'm not sure where you got this from. I don't have a CHP and I carry on my hip all the time. Never had a problem with cops or DUI checkpoints. I just tell them I have a weapon on my right hip. They always just say "OK" or something like that. Unless the pistol is covered by a piece of clothing or somehow hidden, it is not illegal to wear a gun on your hip in a vehicle in North Carolina.

    *Raleigh Police, just gave me a speeding ticket & told me have a good day.
    *Highway Patrol on Hwy 795 just told me not to be fumbling around while he ran my license.
    *Goldsboro PD at a DUI checkpoint on Royal Ave just grunted and acted like he didn't care.

    I'm sure if open carry was illegal in a car, at least one of these guys would've brought it up.











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    out by lineberry funeral home, just east of Mckay Rd.

    by the way, I am still searching the legality of running the pistols numbers. the pistol was inside a holster when the officer siezed both pistol and holster. he would have to have removed the pistol from the holster to see the serial numbers, which he apparently did when he called it in. this all occured before he asked permission to search the vehicle.

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    I used to live in NC and have been through a few DUI checkpoints like that (before i carried).

    I now live in Idaho and am glad it's illegal to have DUI checkpoints here.

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    p85 wrote:
    out by lineberry funeral home, just east of Mckay Rd.

    by the way, I am still searching the legality of running the pistols numbers. the pistol was inside a holster when the officer siezed both pistol and holster. he would have to have removed the pistol from the holster to see the serial numbers, which he apparently did when he called it in. this all occured before he asked permission to search the vehicle.
    I wonder if this would be considered an illegal search since the #'s are not in plain sight? There are rules as to how the info can be obtained. Plain sight would be somewhat OK. (Basically I personally disagree with it) But removing it from the holster to access the #'s goes beyond using something in plain site. They could use the excuse of officer safety to take the firearm. I'm not sure how legal it is to remove it from the holster to search the #'s though. I know there is some SC precedence, ie 4th ammendment. I just can't recall any cases right now. I'm pretty sure I have come across some that dealt with plain sight v having to gain access to see something.

    Dreamer, 100% agreement on the RAS not being there to think it's stolen. It's a fishing expedition. The plan may be to put it in the etrace program, but the stolen database is the excuse that will be used.

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    Next time just put it on his hip, then it probably wouldnt have been an issue. Just my 2 cents.

  21. #21
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    to me; running a gun to see if it's stolen, is like a cop making a full inspection of your vehicle to see if he can dicipline you for anything not up to par; hey, your oil's low, here's your ticket.- that is how valid it is to me.

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    How old was the cop? I've noticed a trend that a lot of the cops that want to run serial numbers are older.

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    dcop was thirty something.

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    I agree. Unless the serial number was in "plain view" then I personally feel that it is a search if the cop has to do anything to make the serial number visible. Removing it from a holster where the serial number was covered for the purpose of viewing the serial number should beby definition a search.

    I've noticed that 99% of my pistols have the serial number on the left side, hidden by my body, or covered by the holster.

    A gun should be no different than any other personal property in the car. The cops don't run the serial number on GPS, my XM radio, my cell phone, or my power inverter.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've always wondered why they don't seem to concerned with the VIN of the vehicle, or the $2000 laptop in the back seat, or the $200 iPhone or the digial video camera that many folks also have in their vehicles or on their person when they insist on running the SN of a handgun. It seems that there are a whole lot more computers,cell phones and automobiles stolen these days than handguns...

    This sort of selective investigation could be interpreted as an infringement of the "Equal protection" clause, as well as the 4th Amendment.

    I do believe that if I ever am asked for my handgun so they can run it's serial numbers, I'll politely refuse, under the condition that I will gladly turn it over if they also run the numbers of everything else I have in my vehicle with a serial number.

    And in my car, there are a LOT of things with serial numbers, from tools to electronics, to flashlights. I mean, it could take HOURS.

    But you can't be too careful, right?...

    When the State begins to work under the assumption that ALL it's citizens are guilty, they are no longer citizens, but slaves.

    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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