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Thread: Transporting through NY (Need an LEO Opinion)

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    Regular Member vermonter's Avatar
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    I will betraveling from Vermont to Pennsylvania. I fit all of the requirements of US Title 18 926a to lawfully transport through NY, and plan on following all the rules. I called the Troop F and the NYS Thruway barracks and was told if I am stopped I will be arrested. What is the truth about using Titile 18 as an exemption? Please no opinions, just facts about what NYS Troopers would actually do if I am stopped.

    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/926A.html

    US AG Opinion

    http://www.calgunlaws.com/Docs/TRANS...-DOJltrTSA.pdf



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    Regular Member vermonter's Avatar
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    I called 2 barracks and I was told I would be arrested in spite of title 18. The BATFE told me I could ship to myself VIA UPS and thats what I am going to do. Will not spend a dime in NY, not even for gas.

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    vermonter wrote:
    I called 2 barracks and I was told I would be arrested in spite of title 18. The BATFE told me I could ship to myself VIA UPS and thats what I am going to do. Will not spend a dime in NY, not even for gas.
    Please allow me to apologize sincerely for the shiitake that my "great state" puts its own and out-of-state gun enthusiasts through. I wish it weren't the case, but the gun agenda for the whole state is controlled by anti-gun NYC and its wealthy suburbs.

    I'm traveling to your state in June to take some classes with Vermont Tactical. I'm looking forward to experiencing some of the true firearm freedom that you guys have.



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    Drive through as planned, with the firearm exactly in accordance with federal law. Make sure to film the entire process of packing your car for the trip. Leave this film at home.

    Speed the entire way.

    If you get pulled over make sure you are filming and explain that you have a firearm in the trunk being carried in accordance with federal regulation.

    Get arrested and have the gun confiscated.

    Sue.

    Profit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arentol View Post
    Drive through as planned, with the firearm exactly in accordance with federal law. Make sure to film the entire process of packing your car for the trip. Leave this film at home.

    Speed the entire way.

    If you get pulled over make sure you are filming and explain that you have a firearm in the trunk being carried in accordance with federal regulation.

    Get arrested and have the gun confiscated.

    Sue.

    Profit.

    I've heard stupid remarks before but this takes the cake.

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    If the gun is locked up in accordance with federal law, then how are they going to know it is there? Unless you plan on placing the locked container under an empty propane tank that will be visibly smoking there is no issue. Just brush up on your refuse to consent to search, and download a couple of dog whistle mp3's for the car stereo to blare out in the event they try and claim dogs smell something, just be blowing the silent tunes for them.

    If you want coverage of all bases, have a relative die and carry the death certificate and will of the estate property.

    Remember COMBINATION locks only, any key can be removed from you, and used to open a container which you consented to have opened.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    I believe that the PDR of NY considers the federal statute an affirmative defense. That means you can be arrested but at trial, the case would be dismissed. Don't forget, they need a search warrant to check anything in your car if a simple traffic stop. Even a Terry stop only applies to the cab and what is clearly visible. They cannot open your trunk without a warrant or subsequent to an arrest.

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    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    First of all, never ask a police officer about laws. They tell people incorrect things all the time. The absolute best way to find out the real answer would be to contact a 2A lawyer.

    That being said, the Peaceable Journey Act covers you through any state, as long as it is in a locked case, unloaded, (preferably dissasembled), and in the trunk of your car, and as long as you don't stop anywhere or stay overnight or anything like that, you are all set.

    Slackware brings up a good point, combination locks are best. Even if they did stop you, and even if they did illegally search your car, they would have to break the lock to find out what is in it, and that would just be another major point that could be used against them in a court of law during the lawsuit.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The point being that New York State requires a state license to posses a firearm, and does not issue such licenses to out-of-staters. Thus, as far as New York State is concerned, you are illegally possessing a firearm in New York State if/when they catch you violating a valid state law. Then, as has already been mentioned, you can claim FOPA as your affirmative defense against possessing an unlicensed firearm in New York State.

    But, as we all know, an affirmative defense requires that you first admit that you violated the law.

    And since the Feds see that you were "let off" by virtue of the affirmative defense, they see no "violation" of FOPA.

    The fact that you may have spent considerable time and money, including some time incarcerated, has nothing to do with anything. New York is not doing anything but enforcing their existing state laws. Doing so does not violate your rights under FOPA or the Constitution.

    If you are going to transit New York State with a firearm, you need to be aware of this set of circumstances and be willing to accept that you might be stopped, and if found with an unlicensed firearm you will be arrested. Or - you need to either find an alternative route that does not take you through New York State, or an alternative method of getting your firearm from your starting point to your destination without carrying it in your vehicle.

    Sure, it sucks, and it feels like a violation of both the letter and spirit of FOPA, as well as perhaps some Constitutional rights. But, it's the way things are - until and unless the good folks of New York State see fit to change the laws there.

    stay safe.

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    Exclamation

    I recently traveled coast to coast across the country and did go through New York state via the southern tier expressway. I had my guns, including handguns with me, and was not aware of the law against doing so.
    Last edited by MadMax; 06-12-2011 at 03:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMax View Post
    I recently traveled coast to coast across the country and did go through New York state via the southern tier expressway. I had my guns, including handguns with me, and was not aware of the law against doing so.
    My first thought: how can any gun owner not know about New York's draconian gun laws?

    Second: if your guns were unloaded and locked in the trunk (or in a locked case), then you didn't break any laws. If you're legal at your starting point and legal at your destination, then you're legal to transport (not "carry") guns through any state or city in between.

    I've transported a dozen guns (mixed handguns and rifles) and thousands of rounds of ammo through New York. I've done so through the southern part of the state (I-84), and the looooong I-90.

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    I'd read this http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=1&oi=scholarr

    They may very well arrest you and then drop all charges just like Torraco. There's not much to deter them either since the 2nd circuit said police did not have to know gun laws of states outside of theirs(but of course, the gun owner does!) and can't be held liable.
    I'd keep a copy of FOPA with you while transporting through NY. If you have a PA carry permit, it may also prove that you're legal going that direction. From VT though, you'd have to hope the NY cops know VT has no carry permit.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    I'd read this http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=1&oi=scholarr

    They may very well arrest you and then drop all charges just like Torraco. There's not much to deter them either since the 2nd circuit said police did not have to know gun laws of states outside of theirs(but of course, the gun owner does!) and can't be held liable.
    I'd keep a copy of FOPA with you while transporting through NY. If you have a PA carry permit, it may also prove that you're legal going that direction. From VT though, you'd have to hope the NY cops know VT has no carry permit.
    The citation points to a moron cop in NY--hardly a surprise, and an ******* liberal judge who decides what constitutional protections apply to 'subjects.' NYC is the cesspool of the nation.

  14. #14
    Regular Member HvyMtl's Avatar
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    (Need an LEO Opinion)

    IMHO, it is NO good to rely on LEO Opinion. It is far better to get a NY State practicing Attorney's opinion. More reliable...

    Hate you have to drive thru there, too bad you cannot drive around it...
    Μολὼν λάβε

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Geez not to sound like a broken record, but it seems like it was called the Empire State for a reason.

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    Don't give law enforcement a reason to pull you over in the first place and you'll have nothing to worry about. If you are stopped, and you have a handgun in the trunk - locked away, unloaded, etc... keep that fact to yourself, there's no requirement that you inform the police officer you have a gun on your person. You're transporting, not carrying. Otherwise, every UPS and FedEx driver would be arrested if that were the case.

    Just make sure your vehicle is in good working order, registration, insurance and inspections are current, and you're obeying vehicle and traffic law, and you're good to go. If you get pulled over, there's usually a reason for it - they don't just randomly pull people over for the fun of it here.

    I drive 200-400 miles a day for work through upstate NY and the only time I've been pulled over was for speeding when I was actually speeding and not once has anyone asked me if I were carrying. NY State Troopers usually start pulling over when you're 15 MPH above the posted speed limit (I normally drive within 10 MPH). Keep an eye on speed changes (i.e., from 65 to 55) as it's not uncommon to find someone waiting for someone who didn't pay attention.

    However, a simple traffic stop is not enough for them to ask you to a consent to search. But don't act nervous or behave in a manner that'll get them thinking something ain't right. So long as everything is in order - you have nothing to worry about. Sure, we've all heard the horror stories about corrupt police, but 99.9% of them are just doing their job and if you give them respect, they'll return the favor and send you on your way after writing up the ticket. Yes sir, no sir, thank you and stay safe out there. Give them a hard time and they'll return the favor.
    Last edited by nessman; 01-30-2011 at 07:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nessman View Post
    Don't give law enforcement a reason to pull you over in the first place and you'll have nothing to worry about. If you are stopped, and you have a handgun in the trunk - locked away, unloaded, etc... keep that fact to yourself, there's no requirement that you inform the police officer you have a gun on your person. You're transporting, not carrying. Otherwise, every UPS and FedEx driver would be arrested if that were the case.

    Just make sure your vehicle is in good working order, registration, insurance and inspections are current, and you're obeying vehicle and traffic law, and you're good to go. If you get pulled over, there's usually a reason for it - they don't just randomly pull people over for the fun of it here.

    I drive 200-400 miles a day for work through upstate NY and the only time I've been pulled over was for speeding when I was actually speeding and not once has anyone asked me if I were carrying. NY State Troopers usually start pulling over when you're 15 MPH above the posted speed limit (I normally drive within 10 MPH). Keep an eye on speed changes (i.e., from 65 to 55) as it's not uncommon to find someone waiting for someone who didn't pay attention.

    However, a simple traffic stop is not enough for them to ask you to a consent to search. But don't act nervous or behave in a manner that'll get them thinking something ain't right. So long as everything is in order - you have nothing to worry about. Sure, we've all heard the horror stories about corrupt police, but 99.9% of them are just doing their job and if you give them respect, they'll return the favor and send you on your way after writing up the ticket. Yes sir, no sir, thank you and stay safe out there. Give them a hard time and they'll return the favor.
    They can always ask to search when the traffic stop is complete, you never have to consent. If they had PC, they wouldn't be asking for your consent...good advice.
    Last edited by emsjeep; 01-30-2011 at 08:27 PM.
    "Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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    Regular Member ronmanci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vermonter View Post
    I will betraveling from Vermont to Pennsylvania. I fit all of the requirements of US Title 18 926a to lawfully transport through NY, and plan on following all the rules. I called the Troop F and the NYS Thruway barracks and was told if I am stopped I will be arrested. What is the truth about using Titile 18 as an exemption? Please no opinions, just facts about what NYS Troopers would actually do if I am stopped.

    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/926A.html

    US AG Opinion

    http://www.calgunlaws.com/Docs/TRANS...-DOJltrTSA.pdf
    You can be arrested. And the NYSP have received orders from Albany to make that arrest. I do believe that. I am a Deputy Sheriff in the Troop F zone and I can tell you for sure, you will never be prosecuted. If the ammo and the weapon are stored seperately and out of hands reach of each other, we do not make an arrest. It's one of those things that the DA's office and the Troopers do battle over, every time a Trooper makes that arrest. Happens more than you think. The first thing a Trooper asks you when your pulled over is if you have any weapons in the car. An honest person that thinks he has done everything correct, is going to say "yes". Thats how they get ya.

    BUT, they (DA) will take a stab at you. Get a good lawyer or they will try to get you to take a plea for something else. Basically to Cover their a**es. A good lawyer will get you cleared, and at that point, there is some things you can do legally. The door would now be open for a Federal investigation for violating your constitutional rights. The key is good lawyer.

    I know you probably just want to get where you going without any hassels. Drive slow and you should be fine. But bring bail money unless you plan on mailing it.
    Last edited by ronmanci; 01-30-2011 at 11:28 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member ronmanci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    The citation points to a moron cop in NY--hardly a surprise, and an ******* liberal judge who decides what constitutional protections apply to 'subjects.' NYC is the cesspool of the nation.
    The bad gun laws aside, NYC is the Capital of the World.

  20. #20
    Regular Member ronmanci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessman View Post
    Don't give law enforcement a reason to pull you over in the first place and you'll have nothing to worry about. If you are stopped, and you have a handgun in the trunk - locked away, unloaded, etc... keep that fact to yourself, there's no requirement that you inform the police officer you have a gun on your person. You're transporting, not carrying. Otherwise, every UPS and FedEx driver would be arrested if that were the case.

    Just make sure your vehicle is in good working order, registration, insurance and inspections are current, and you're obeying vehicle and traffic law, and you're good to go. If you get pulled over, there's usually a reason for it - they don't just randomly pull people over for the fun of it here.

    I drive 200-400 miles a day for work through upstate NY and the only time I've been pulled over was for speeding when I was actually speeding and not once has anyone asked me if I were carrying. NY State Troopers usually start pulling over when you're 15 MPH above the posted speed limit (I normally drive within 10 MPH). Keep an eye on speed changes (i.e., from 65 to 55) as it's not uncommon to find someone waiting for someone who didn't pay attention.

    However, a simple traffic stop is not enough for them to ask you to a consent to search. But don't act nervous or behave in a manner that'll get them thinking something ain't right. So long as everything is in order - you have nothing to worry about. Sure, we've all heard the horror stories about corrupt police, but 99.9% of them are just doing their job and if you give them respect, they'll return the favor and send you on your way after writing up the ticket. Yes sir, no sir, thank you and stay safe out there. Give them a hard time and they'll return the favor.
    Good advice right here!

  21. #21
    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by navylt View Post
    never, ever, for any reason consent to any search. If asked to exit the vehicle, get out of the car, lock the doors behind you and put the keys in an empty pocket.
    more good advice !!!!!
    America Home of the Free BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! ! !

  22. #22
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Another point: if asked "do you have any weapons in your car?" state you refuse to answer the question. Don't invoke the 5th, just refuse to answer. You are never, NEVER under obligation to answer ANY question from a cop except for identification--and that in only a minority of the states, to which you could simply hand him your DL. Refusal to answer questions is not RAS or PC in ANY state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Another point: if asked "do you have any weapons in your car?" state you refuse to answer the question. Don't invoke the 5th, just refuse to answer. You are never, NEVER under obligation to answer ANY question from a cop except for identification--and that in only a minority of the states, to which you could simply hand him your DL. Refusal to answer questions is not RAS or PC in ANY state.
    Two things, 1) Some states require notification; 2) Don't be belligerent, do one of two things, a) change the subject, "I'm sorry, but could we conclude our business here? I would appreciate it if you could just get me on my way back home;" b) "I understand that you are doing your job, but, with respect, I don't wish to answer any more questions; I hope you understand."
    "Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  24. #24
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmanci View Post
    An honest person that thinks he has done everything correct, is going to say "yes". Thats how they get ya.
    I'm planning a possible trip through NY to NH. I'd just stay silent and not answer the question.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emsjeep View Post
    Two things, 1) Some states require notification; 2) Don't be belligerent, do one of two things, a) change the subject, "I'm sorry, but could we conclude our business here? I would appreciate it if you could just get me on my way back home;" b) "I understand that you are doing your job, but, with respect, I don't wish to answer any more questions; I hope you understand."
    Which states require notification that you legally have a weapon in your car? I'm aware of states that require you to show a CCW if you have one and it's needed for carry in a car. Others, like NH, require one to have a concealed pistol in the car but don't require you show/mention having one. If required to notify, the statement should be "I have no illegal weapons." And I agree--be polite and business like. If the cop is doing his job properly and ethically, that is always the correct course of action.

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