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Thread: OC'd in CoMo no probs - DWI checkpoint had probs.

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    First of all I need to warn anyone reading my account that it is very long as semi-detailed. If you wish to spend your time reading it all and feel its been wasted due to my long and windy representation, I can't be held accountable for that. It was your choice.

    I OC'd in Columbia with no problems, however I did have issues during a DWI checkpoint stop and detainment on the border of Cole and Callaway counties at the Missouri River bridge that included an officer getting in my vehicle, opening a closed container and removing my loaded firearm. There was no probable cause to search a closed container and after retrieving my weapon he attempted to run the serial number to see if it was stolen.

    Here is the account of my day, travels and my stop as I can best remember them. I had very little of the stop video taped with my own camera but it does show the detainment, the reason given, and then another officer entering my vehicle to move it from the road and him going into my cooler. I haven't uploaded it as it has much dead space to yet be removed.



    First off, I went to Columbia with my 3 year old to spend time at the park. I didn't OC because city ordinace forbids it within city parks. My wife meets up with me and we go to each chinese atPeking Restaurant. I OC there with no problems, they were wonderful, I did overhear a table with a large group next to us talking in Chinese and the only thing I could make out was one mentioning NRA to another.

    The really odd thing is thatwe eachgot a fortune cookie and my fortune read, "Get ready for a daring adventure." I put it in my wallet and I saved it, lol.

    I then went to McGinty's tavern owned by friends of mine in Columbia. I had a great time meeting and talking to the middle aged people whowere there and most if not all, seemed to be very liberty orientated. I didn't OC, as its a tavern. I drank one beer and then several colas.

    I then went downtown to look for Starbucks. My buddy said it was on south 9th street. I found a parking spot on Broadway, walked a couple blocks on it and then several blocks on 9th, went in Starbucks, the employee was really nice, I tipped him and then walked back to my car with my coffee. I saw two cruisers, one pulled up next to me when I was waiting at a crosswalk, no issues at all with my walk.

    I went back to McGinty's, hung out a little bit after closing time to chat with my friend, and decided to go home. I also went to McDonalds in Rockbridge, OC'd and got another cup of coffee and was treated very respectfully there. I left Columbia, it was very, very late. I had one beer the entire evening and it was several hours earlier. On the way home I encountered the largest checkpoint I have ever seen, even larger than my two most recent border checkpoints. It was simply incredible what they had out there on the highway.



    Now I will insert my recollection of the entire stop and detainment at the sobriety checkpoint I encountered. For the most part I will copy and paste verbatim what I blogged in the comments in the Columbia Tribune. I am a Libertarian at heart. My issues go far beyond just the 2nd amendment that we all hold in common here. I know the weapon is what's most important here but I still will include anything involved in this stop in its entirety.I am very open to and actually encourage any criticism or second guessing of me, by you. This is all a learning experience for me and in retrospect, I can see a couple of big mistakes I may have made, one of which was not getting names or badge numbers. If anyone has any questions, ridicule or comments, I'll be happy to address them politely and seriously.



    Again, sorry about the length of this but it may be interesting to some people and this is just how I do things.


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    My DWI stop last night,

    This is a long read but I just wanted to mention it here for anyone whose interested. If you do assert your rights in Mid Missouri, be aware that it may piss off those doing these stops and they will sometimes react in such a way as to then violate your rights. They need to be real careful. They often times do put themselves in a position where a plaintiff has grounds for a lawsuit against them.

    I was stopped last night (early this morning) at a sobriety checkpoint on the Missouri River bridge in Jefferson City. They were stopping every single car. There must have been 30 patrol cars or more in total, which included vehicles from Callaway County Sheriff, Highway Patrol and Jefferson City PD. I really was surprised by the scope and intensity of this blockade. I have never seen one this large including two inland border blockades I've most recently been through.

    I told the initial MSHP officer that I didn't want to answer any questions. He asked for license and insurance. I gave those no problem and then he preceeded to ask me more personal questions in regards to my trip. I told him I am choosing not to answer questions. He ordered me out of the car right on the spot. Once I got out of my vehicle I asked if I could shut it off and he told me another officer would pull it off to the side of the road. I said that I didn't want anyone in my vehicle searching it and he assured me that wouldn't happen.

    He walks me over to a table they had in the road, next to a big truck that looked like it could have been a mobile lab unit. He tells me on the way that its a sobriety checkpoint and that I have to answer his questions because its a sobriety checkpoint, which I assure him that he's mistaken (Actually he's flat out lying to me about this because he can't be that stupid if he's a State Trooper). He then tells me I have to take the field sobriety test which I told him I was declining to do and he repeated that I was going to do it. I asked him if they had a breathalyzer on sight, he confirmed that they do, so I indicated I would comply with that but I wasn't going to do a FST. (I don't want to have to surrender my license which can happen that night if I don't comply with a chemical test). The officer asks me if I support drunk drivers on the highways and I told him I do not, but I also don't support these intrusive checkpoints and mentioned a study I had seen recently that showed cops, in their cars on patrol, is a much more effective method of catching drunk drivers, and its quite a significant difference. He never did perform a chemical test on me, I'd like to add.



    Then here comes the officer that was in my car, with my handgun, as if he found a trophy. He shows it to the officers that are around me and says he is going to run the numbers and check if its stolen. I told the officer who first detained me that I had objected to my vehicle being searched. This other officer had found my weapon that was in a cooler such that the weapon was not in plain view. He actually did a search to find it though it was easy to find if he's going to rummage in my cooler. I vehemently reject that illegal search of my property in regards to running the gun's id numbers. I state that there is no reasonable suspicion for this search. (actually at this point they needed to go one step deeper than RS and that's to have probable cause for the search). The reasonable suspicion for my detainment was strictly because I refused to answer non-mandatory questions, which in itself, is not reasonable suspicion that a crime was, is or is about to be committed.

    The officer who had found my holstered sidearm I had concluded was a buffoon. Not only did he already do an illegal search (as I hadn't been arrested, no probable cause and he had to open a container to access this weapon), not only did he say he was going to illegally run the id to see if its stolen, he now removes the safety on the weapon and begins to mess around with it while circled by both me and several of his fellow officers. I told him to be careful, its loaded and I think I told him there was a live round in the chamber. At this point, while he's working the action he sweeps me with it and then points it at my groin without even noticing he's doing this. This instantly scares the crap out of me. I move out of the way a couple of feet which causes several officers to advance (make motions) towards me and orderme to hold still. I am pretty bothered by this officer and state that he is sweeping me with the gun. He then does it again immediately after I had said something! I move a second time, one officer puts a hand on his holstered weapon and they order me to hold still again, and I again protest being swept with what is a loaded weapon by this man who is actually struggling to disarm it.

    After objecting one more time to the possibility of my weapon being taken and the ID search of that weapon, and no grounds for suspicion, the Highway Patrol officer tells me that because of no smell, because of my eyes, that he feels I am not intoxicated, that I will receive my weapon back immediately and then can be on my way. They decided not to run the serial number. He tries to give me a lecture, which is fine as I take it as nothing official but his own personal chat. The substance of his lecture is completely wrong though (in my opinion) and had shown to me an authority complex such that his goal wasn't to take a drunk off the road that night, in regards to my individual stop, but to try to set an example of his authority over an average citizen who asserts his rights. These rights I might add, aren't of my own personal making. They are granted by both the State of Missouri and our Federal Government and are mandated to be respected by these Law Enforcement Officers.

    They put my holster, sidearm and its magazine in the back seat of my SUV after I get into my vehicle and I proceed on my way.

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    I would also like to add, that what happened during my detainment as I portrayed here, may not and more than likely, is not completely accurate. I wrote this down earlier today to the best of my abilities of remembering it and piecing it together. At the very least though, it is very close. I would like to see if I can obtain a copy of any video and audio recorded while at that table which appeared to be the field sobriety investigation spot. I am almost certain they would have recorded this as I feel that's what the location was used for.

    Also, my referring to one officer as a buffoon and indicating that another was intimidating, its my own personal feeling of this encounter. It may or may not be a fair assessment from someone else's point of view and I totally respect that.

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    Not a bad read MK. Post the full video with what times can be forwarded because of dead space. Looking back, would you turn your car off (without asking) and lock your doors as you got out next time?

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    probably would have gotten VERY loud when observing him handling the weapon and likely referred to him as a *******.

    I would have immediately requested the presence of a supervisor and filed a complaint on the spot.

    These are just things I would add to what you did, I really do not think there is a problem with your actions, next time roll up the window and lock the door when you get out.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    This is why I can't stand the average cop in MO.

    They think they're expert killers, marksmen, drivers, lawyers, negotiators, speakers.

    Always inserting opinions, overruning their authority, forgetting who they serve.

    They take an oath to uphold the Constitution, and crap all over it without thinking twice.

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    cash50 wrote:
    This is why I can't stand the average cop in MO.

    They think they're expert killers, marksmen, drivers, lawyers, negotiators, speakers.

    Always inserting opinions, overruning their authority, forgetting who they serve.

    They take an oath to uphold the Constitution, and crap all over it without thinking twice.
    Cash,So you know cops that think they are expert killers? lol...I think you could have left this one out. We all have opinions, even the cops. Overrunning their authority, is handled by the courts. I think you painted to broad with your use of the word "average".

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    Thanks for the input.

    These officers didn't treat me rough or like a slug. I don't feel I was respected as a citizen should be though. Isaw attempts to mislead and made to feel subordinate by the officer who was in charge of me. I do consider myself as anyother law abiding American's equal. I am both very proud yet very respectful of others and I don't like to give an inch when its mandated from me. I did treat them with the respect they deserve and except for a few key details, they did the same back for me.

    The only lawful wrong I can see in my limited understanding was searchinga closed container in my car. Other than that, the rest was merely attempts I objected too, misinformation, and what appeared to be bad handling of my firearm.What I object to is the very premise from the begginning of the checkpoint and the fact that my firearm then became an investigative focus with no lawful cause for it. Why not check my car stereo to see if its stolen? Why not grab and analyze my fishing rod or other tools in the car? They are just keyed in on a weapon simply because of its potential and automatically consider itas possibly suspect.

    What they do in thesestops they don't do to MK personally as much as they do in fishing for something against an American.

    I grew up proud andstubborn, yet try to befair, but also recognize that I haven't always been fair myself.From my earliest days on I question authority if I think it needs to be done. I don't surrender myself over lightly to anyone. I know I could have just answered questions and made it easy on myself, but I also know as soon as I am asked about my travel, I am under investigation for any crime they may be fishing for.On some very important parchment to both me and the lawmen, it says I don't have to surrender myself up like that unless I choose too.

    I still feel a bit humbled that someone exerts control over me though. As incredibly minor as the whole thing really may be, I feel kind of bad.

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    Shawn, you are correct and I believe I should have attempted to turn off my car and lock the doors. I have no doubt that it would have caused an immediatechallenge that I would have instantaneously lost, however. They had everyone funneled into one lane of traffic. They were stopping and at least verbally investigating every single driver. My vehicle was blocking the road when it was demanded that I now exit the vehicle and he meant "now".

    Still, itcould have been interesting to see how they handled that.



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    MK wrote:
    Shawn, you are correct and I believe I should have attempted to turn off my car and lock the doors. I have no doubt that it would have caused an immediatechallenge that I would have instantaneously lost, however. They had everyone funneled into one lane of traffic. They were stopping and at least verbally investigating every single driver. My vehicle was blocking the road when it was demanded that I now exit the vehicle and he meant "now".

    Still, itcould have been interesting to see how they handled that.

    MK, I was only interested in how you might act differently going forward thinking back on it (not in what you did). Also, I think you posting this (would like to see video also) is a great service for others that might visit this site.

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    This is a great example of the Police overstepping your civil rights.

    If any of you have not visted this website flexyourrights.org, I would sugggest you do so.

    Zeke
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    Shawn wrote:
    cash50 wrote:
    This is why I can't stand the average cop in MO.

    They think they're expert killers, marksmen, drivers, lawyers, negotiators, speakers.

    Always inserting opinions, overruning their authority, forgetting who they serve.

    They take an oath to uphold the Constitution, and crap all over it without thinking twice.
    Cash,So you know cops that think they are expert killers? lol...I think you could have left this one out. We all have opinions, even the cops. Overrunning their authority, is handled by the courts. I think you painted to broad with your use of the word "average".
    Ok, I went overboard. But I was trying to make a point. These cops think they are professionals and only they should be allowed to have guns everywhere, but this idiot was sweeping a muzzle across this guy repeatedly. That's grounds for an ass-chewing IMO.

    There really are a lot of cops like this out there. And the other cops don't say or do anything to stop these ones. It just pisses me off a lot.

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    I have written out and saved my FOIA request. I need to talk to the Custodian of Records for Highway Patrol tomorrow to find out if they are the ones that collected and stored the information gathered at that sobriety checkpoint.

    I really hope I can get video and audio of what was going on at the field sobriety test spot that I was briefly held at. I want to see how close my recollections were to what went down. Depending on what is shown, I may make a complaint in regards to one or more things that had happened. I need to get the name of the officer who went into my car, opened the cooler and retrieved my weapon. Without that name, I am unsure as to whether I can even make a complaint about the search. I guess a general one can still be made, but I don't even know what force he worked with.

    I also tried twice to upload the lengthy video of me in my car to no avail.I've only uploaded one video before and it was a short one and very easy. I think I willbreak this onedown into several smallersections and try to work on it more tonight and/or tomorrow.

    No matter what, this has been a good learning experience for me in several different ways.

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    MK,

    Bravo for knowing your rights and using them. It is just sad that the LEO's would have strung alongsome one else who didn't know the laws. With their lies and half truths. We expect more from LEOs though it seems common to get less.

    P.S. I would be interested in seeing that tape from the P.D.

    Doc

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    Here's links to the 4 parts I've uploaded to the internet. I don't know how to make a playlist at the moment so you'll have to look at the 4 seperately or whichever one that interests you. The only cuts I made during contact was when my car was empty of people and all activity. These are only my recordings. I am working on a FOIA so I can obtain any that were taken at the checkpoint.

    pt1 - approaching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VYdUQ-1Em4

    pt2 - officer doesn't respect right to silence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2ARE...eature=channel

    pt3 - officer finds and takes my gun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIyiN...eature=channel

    pt4 - return to vehicle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxTsK...eature=channel



    One last thing I'd like to add. The is the first time I've taken any kind of recording device with me when I've left my home armed. Everytime I've OC'd I havent taken a camera or voice recorder with me. I happened to have this camera with me that day because I took my daughter to the park and wanted to get video of her playing. My daughter rode home with my wife earlier and I stayed in town to chat about local politics and happenings at my friend's tavern.

    I think I will have the camera with me more often and have thought about buying a small cheap voice recorder at Wal-Mart. I plan on being at the Columbia City council meeting on May 17th, 7:00pm, unarmed, and want to document it as I think it could have a large turnout due to the highly publicized SWAT raid and dog shootings.

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    MK wrote:
    I told the initial MSHP officer that I didn't want to answer any questions.
    For people who really object to these roadblocks and want to fight them, consider not even speaking at all - your milage may very under different state law schemes, but speaking provides police evidence to use against you to justify your seizure, e.g., your speech was slurred.

    For those who just want to get thru the road block, answering a few questions usually is all it takes.

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    Wow, pretty clear they got into your cooler by the video. This is kinda alarming.

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    I always comply with the simple question/ answer session, and thank the officer for working to keep the Hiways safe.

    I'm not saying what MK did was wrong, But at a DWI check point, where a citizen refuses to answer any questions, and a cooler is in plain sight and coolers are designed and marketed to keep beverages cool, then the suspicion of the officer is justified by checking the cooler. That saidremoving the firearm wasn't justified, and a firearms check point is against the law, so you may have some recourse there I don't know.

    Next time carry a Huge rubber snake for the nosey intruder!!That will make your nextPhishing trip a little more enjoyable.

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    Talk to a lawyer. By the way, not all of us disregard our oath.
    The responsibility is ours, the results, GODS

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    Carnivore wrote:
    and a cooler is in plain sight and coolers are designed and marketed to keep beverages cool, then the suspicion of the officer is justified by checking the cooler.
    Nope. Doesn't matter if he had 20 finished off cans of beer in there, if you don't consent to a search they can't search it.



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    How does a cooler INSIDE his vehicle,in plain sight,give to cop probable cause to look inside it?What if it was a bag,purse,suitcase.ect..........The cop was wrong PERIOD...but arent they most of the time???Of the several I have personally known,they were on power trips enoforceing the laws as they saw if,and breaking any law they wanted as they were ABOVE the law..And a couple of them are now in jail ,its just to bad more arent delt with .
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Carnivore wrote:
    But at a DWI check point, where a citizen refuses to answer any questions, and a cooler is in plain sight and coolers are designed and marketed to keep beverages cool, then the suspicion of the officer is justified by checking the cooler. That saidremoving the firearm wasn't justified, and a firearms check point is against the law, so you may have some recourse there I don't know.

    Next time carry a Huge rubber snake for the nosey intruder!!That will make your nextPhishing trip a little more enjoyable.
    Not only are you wrong, your COMPLETELY wrong.

    Nothing ever gave the officer the right to enter the vehicle, nothing other than expressed permission which was not given.

    He could have had 500 pounds of cocaine in the cooler and it would have been tossed.

    For whatever reason you choose to give up your rights does not instantly make it the law. This video should become a training video for new officers on exactly what they should never do so some criminal does not walk scott free based upon the illegal search.

    To the OP, after viewing the footage, I think I would have repeated my right to remain silent, when he asked if you had been drinking, I would have said "No, I haven't done anything else illegal either, I do not want to answer anymore questions. Am I free to go?" and left it at that.

    When a police officer ask such a question, the response needs to be clear and concise. He asked you if you had been engaged in illegal activity, drinking and driving, not responding properly can give him pc to suspect you have been and are evading.

    Saying no and adding you have done nothing illegal and then asserting your rights can save you future headaches. That is how I approach such things, and it has worked so far very well.

    You could inquire with a lawyer and get a better recommendation I am sure.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    I beg to differ with you, 20 open and even empty alcoholic beverage containers inside the passenger compartment of your vehicle can and has resulted in open container violations and can cause a person a great deal of grief if you choose to show your funny side to the wrong officer.. Once the officers were forced to remove a driver from a vehicle, it too is their responsibility to move or have moved the vehicle to a safe location, the driver forced the police's hand for everything they did except remove the pistol from the vehicle and bring it to center stage. This was a DWI check point, they officers have a duty to insure everyone on that roadway is in compliance with Missouri's law before allowing them to proceed, and if one chooses to make a game of it, The video proved they will ablige you.

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    Carnivore wrote:
    I beg to differ with you, 20 open and even empty alcoholic beverage containers inside the passenger compartment of your vehicle can and has resulted in open container violations and can cause a person a great deal of grief if you choose to show your funny side to the wrong officer.. .
    Again, you provide 100% false information.

    The state of Missouri does NOT have an open container law. Approximately 13 cities have open container ordinances, but there is no state law at all. Driver may not drink, however any and all passengers may do so freely.

    Empty beer cans in the cooler not only would have been 100% legal, if discovered, they would not be allowed as evidence due to the illegal nature of the search.

    You need to spend a significant amount of time learning what the laws actually are in contrast to believing every thing your told by the ill informed.

    The police in no way what so ever had a right or responsibility to move the car, in fact they had the opposite according to the op. He clearly stated he did not want them entering the car or driving it. He should have locked the door when he got out. If the car was located in an unsafe location they had a responsibility to protect the public, aka pull a cruiser behind it with the beacons on.

    Again, there is nothing wrong with stating opinions like you felt he should answer the questions, but your efforts at quoting the laws which we all live by are a massive fail and you might want to reconsider quoting them in such an authoritative manner.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    The cop forceing him to get out of his vehicle huh..................That still doesnt give them a right to go thru his belongings.....If they wanted to move his car out or the way,fine......but looking thru his stuff was wrong no matter how you try to spin it.The video does show how cops due as they please,whenever and to whomever they want,disreguarding your rights .PERIOD...thats not bias....just fact......watch the video again.............bad cops..........Next time I hope he gets out and locks his doors,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that will really piss them off......................then they can break out his windows and some will justify that by saying,if he had nothing to hide,why did he lock his doors..............when dealing with LEO's I have found out the more you assert your rights,even calmy and polite,the more pissed off they get.They want some kind of BLIND OBEDIENCE.If you want to graze with the SHEEPLE go ahead,if you dont use whats yours,you will loose whats yours......fact.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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