Carry the law?

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So I am probably one of the youngest OCers in AZ, I'm just past a month over 18. Now I have trained extensively with firearms so don't let my age be a problem for you. But it is for the Police. Our police officers are sworn to uphold the law, sadly however, many don't actually know what the law is and believe I have to be 21 to OC. So my question is: I carry a copy of the ARS in my wallet along with a few web pages that correspond to the OC age in AZ. Would it be bad to present this to an officer if he doesn't know the law? Should I take my chances in pissing him off? Or should I let it go and hope I don't end up illegally detained, if not worse?

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Ive been wondering the same thing, im only 19, ill be 20 in a month, and i want to know how that would work

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May not be a bad idea. At least carry a copy of ARS 13-3111A (Minors Prohibited from Carrying Firearms), and possibly ARS 13-3102 (weapons misconduct).

ARS 13-3111A specifically prohibits those UNDER 18 from carrying.

I'd like to think AZ cops know their gun laws, but I'm not that naive to believe they all know.

If they insist on ignoring you and citing you, seizing your weapon, or God forbid, arresting you. Go with the flow, the resulting lawsuit will be fortuitus.

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AZkopper wrote:

May not be a bad idea. At least carry a copy of ARS 13-3111A (Minors Prohibited from Carrying Firearms), and possibly ARS 13-3102 (weapons misconduct).

ARS 13-3111A specifically prohibits those UNDER 18 from carrying.

I'd like to think AZ cops know their gun laws, but I'm not that naive to believe they all know.

If they insist on ignoring you and citing you, seizing your weapon, or God forbid, arresting you. Go with the flow, the resulting lawsuit will be fortuitous.

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+1 there we go again azkopper is a citizen first and an officer second.He seems to have no problem with people exercising their rights and gives great advise on how to deal with those few LEOs that have yet to understand Arizona laws.Remember getting loud and stupid with an officer that believes he is doing his job will only have bad results for you-charges of interfering with an investigation,and the like yes if an officer assumes you are not old enough to carry then he is investigating,remember that and you'll be OK..

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Just act like a 21+ year old, dress like one, and don't do anything to attract the attention of police and you will more than likely never have that argument with a cop.

Run around town like an idiot, and you'll have the copy of that law out all the time.

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Is this copy you carry one that you made or is it something that you purchased? I'd love to find a little foldout thing that had all the relevant ARS instead of carrying around printouts.

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I OC myself and am 19. I mostly OC well riding my motorcylce were it is always visible. I have been all over the PHX metro areaand have never had a problem with LEO's. However I do always carry a copy of Alan Korwin Arizona's Gun Owners guide in my saddle bags. Just incase I ever have a situation when my right to OC is in question. For the most part am sure officers know the law. For those that dont if you talk to them in a respectful way and explain your right to OC you shouldn't have a problem. Glad 2 see other young responsible people OCing. :celebrate

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Phoenix David wrote:

Is this copy you carry one that you made or is it something that you purchased? I'd love to find a little foldout thing that had all the relevant ARS instead of carrying around printouts.

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Someone from AZ could go to one of several other states forums that have pamphlets on OC and use the format to make your own with some simple editing and inserting the AZ laws that are important. I know Oregon and California both have OC pamphelets in their forums, just do a search. Oregons is probably closer to AZ needs as the laws in California are rediculous so that might be a better format to use.

Printing them double sided can produce a professional looking tri-fold pamphlet that can be downloaded and printed or even taken to a professional print shop if you really want them looking good.

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Washington is another state with a carry law pamphlet.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=10415
Look around you'll find some others.

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above all, if and when confronted by a LEO, keep cool, and be professional. Say yes sir and no sir, eve nif the officer is NOT being professional.

Your attitude, above all else, will be the deciding factor.

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Good cop with legitimate reason for contacting you- see last paragraph

Cop "contacting" (i.e. harassing) you over a lawfully carried firearm? I prefer this approach:

Am I being detained?

Am I free to go?

What is your reasonable articulable suspicion that I am, have, or am about to commit a crime? And please speak clearly for my audio recorder.

If the officer says you are not being detained then say "I do not desire to talk to you, have a nice day" and walk away.

If detained, it is NOT obstruction to decline to talk toofficers. It is in fact the HIGHLY RECOMMENDED thing to do.....ZIP IT.

If arrested.....STFU NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH

If you are not being detained or arrested you have no obligation to talk to the police. They will often say "you're not under arrest you don't have a 5th ammendment right to remain silent unless I arrest you". This is somewhat true, but a misrepresentation intended to intimidate you. The reality is, if you're not being detained you simply don't consent to the conversation and leave. If you are being detained they will ask all manner of questions AND THEY WILL LIE AND TELL YOU YOU MUST ANSWER OR BE ARRESTED. You do NOT have to answer. If you are arrested, DEMAND an attorney before you will talk to anyone. Do not say "can I have my attorney" DEMAND THE ATTORNEY BEFORE ANY QUESTIONING.....PERIOD

Now, all that said, if the reason for the stop is that you were speeding, blew a light, etc. (a legitimate stop) and the officers initial approach in amiable and professional, do be polite and sincere, probably offering up your permit to carry (if required to have one) along with your drivers license if you are carrying. It's called courtesy and good officers appreciate it.

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AZkopper wrote:

May not be a bad idea. At least carry a copy of ARS 13-3111A (Minors Prohibited from Carrying Firearms), and possibly ARS 13-3102 (weapons misconduct).

ARS 13-3111A specifically prohibits those UNDER 18 from carrying.

I'd like to think AZ cops know their gun laws, but I'm not that naive to believe they all know.

If they insist on ignoring you and citing you, seizing your weapon, or God forbid, arresting you. Go with the flow, the resulting lawsuit will be fortuitus.

Click to expand...

13-3111A does say that minors can carry under certain circumstances like on their property, while hunting, shooting, or when accompanied by a parent or legal gaurdian. It specifies this in section A if I'm correct.

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I think that it is a good idea to have a readily available copy of The Arizona Revised Statutes on hand.

Arizona Law, and Federal Law, allow non-Felon Citizens who are 18 years of age, or older, to Carry Pistols.

Federal Law citied: 18 U.S.C. 922(x).

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aadvark wrote:

I think that it is a good idea to have a readily available copy of The Arizona Revised Statutes on hand.

Arizona Law, and Federal Law, allow non-Felon Citizens who are 18 years of age, or older, to Carry Pistols.

Federal Law citied: 18 U.S.C. 922(x).

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Arizona law is the same asfederal law, it also says that under 18 can carry with writtenparent permission (arizona says accompanied by) so long as Arizona law doesn't conflict which it doesn't.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/i/atf-i-5300-2.pdf

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I'm sure they're out there here and there, especially those laid off eastern transplant cops, but I've never, ever met a cop in Arizona who was unaware of gun laws and would take action by guessing at it. Arizona is probably the safest urban place in the world to walk around open carrying without fear of police. I wouldn't worry about it.

Even if you did get detained, the superiors of the cop would probably have an apologetic fit as the wrote up the cop that messed with you. Arizona cops in my opinion tend to set an example the rest of the cops of the US should follow when it comes to actually serving and protecting.

On this topic but perhaps not very important as it pertains to Arizona, it's important to remember that the SCOTUS case JL V Florida ruled that there is no firearms exemption to the rules of a Terry Stop. If it's possibly legal for a person to be armed, the fact that they're armed is insufficient reason for a stop, so they'd need other reasonable articulateable suspicion to stop you. Without that, a color of law violation under federal law would apply, and the police would probably be committing a felony to detain you.

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Michigander wrote:

Arizona is probably the safest urban place in the world to walk around open carrying without fear of police. I wouldn't worry about it.

Arizona cops in my opinion tend to set an example the rest of the cops of the US should follow when it comes to actually serving and protecting.

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+1000 :celebrate

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exp15 wrote:

AZkopper wrote:

May not be a bad idea. At least carry a copy of ARS 13-3111A (Minors Prohibited from Carrying Firearms), and possibly ARS 13-3102 (weapons misconduct).

ARS 13-3111A specifically prohibits those UNDER 18 from carrying.

I'd like to think AZ cops know their gun laws, but I'm not that naive to believe they all know.

If they insist on ignoring you and citing you, seizing your weapon, or God forbid, arresting you. Go with the flow, the resulting lawsuit will be fortuitus.

Click to expand...

13-3111A does say that minors can carry under certain circumstances like on their property, while hunting, shooting, or when accompanied by a parent or legal gaurdian. It specifies this in section A if I'm correct.

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Very true, but an officer/deputy MAY stop a minor-looking guy to determine the legalityof the carry. I was referring to OCing in general, not the hunting/varmint erratication provisions.