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Thread: Keltec pf9

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    anyone know if a keltec pf9 is legal to carry in cali?? or a M&P40 with a 10 round mag??

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    I looked up both guns on their websites, and I dont see why they would nopt be legal. Just make sure you only have 10 round mags.





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    they are 7 rounds in the Pf9 and the M&P are 15...so id have to get a 10 round mag for the smith if i made my trip to Cali


    also is a holster required for OC of is a Belt Clip acceptable??i have a serpa for my M&P but the keltec i only have a CC pocket holster

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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Why can't you have a high capacity mag. It is leagle to have hi caps just can't offer to sell. If you Owned them befor the ban you can still have them. Any PC code stating different.

    9. If I have a large-capacity magazine, do I need to get rid of
    it?

    http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e_restrictions

    No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to
    accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before
    January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1,
    2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale,
    expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in
    California except by law enforcement agencies, California
    peace officers, or licensed dealers.

    (PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    ryanburbridge wrote:
    Why can't you have a high capacity mag. It is leagle to have hi caps just can't offer to sell. If you Owned them befor the ban you can still have them. Any PC code stating different.

    9. If I have a large-capacity magazine, do I need to get rid of
    it?

    http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e_restrictions

    No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to
    accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before
    January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1,
    2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale,
    expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in
    California except by law enforcement agencies, California
    peace officers, or licensed dealers.

    (PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))
    Does anyone have receipts from 2000?
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  6. #6
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    I did not read that part. Where did you see anything about reciepts in the law?
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    ryanburbridge wrote:
    I did not read that part. Where did you see anything about reciepts in the law?
    The burden of proof is on you to show they were purchased before the deadline.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    ^

    Ermm........

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    If you want to know what guns are allowed/authorized for sale in Cali checkout the official website. Unbelievable, do your homework people it's not really that hard. I have not commented on so many forms and just looked at a lot of the questioned asked with utter disbelieve. If there's a law in place in the state and people still try and skirt around it, then in my opinion they deserve what's coming to them. I have fought just to keep the firearms I have now and I know personally that they do not want me to have them so I don't give them a reason to say I can't have them. All I see are little adults acting like innocent children which I have enough of!! That's my 2 cents because "a little common sense goes a long way in my life time". I don't mean to offend anyone but some of the conversations go way and above the purpose. Carry on folks.

    http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

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    Gundude wrote:
    ryanburbridge wrote:
    I did not read that part. Where did you see anything about reciepts in the law?
    The burden of proof is on you to show they were purchased before the deadline.
    Do you have a citation for this claim?

    I know that may be how it washes out in the end, but theoretically, the burden of proof is always on the prosecution.

    And I only keep receipts for about 3 days, unless it's for a major purchase (pretty much anything over $500). I don't think I even have the receipt for the rebuild kits I bought 2 years ago when I fixed up my rusty "pre-ban" 20-rd mags for one of my rifles.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    L in Oakland wrote:
    If you want to know what guns are allowed/authorized for sale in Cali checkout the official website. Unbelievable, do your homework people it's not really that hard. I have not commented on so many forms and just looked at a lot of the questioned asked with utter disbelieve. If there's a law in place in the state and people still try and skirt around it, then in my opinion they deserve what's coming to them. I have fought just to keep the firearms I have now and I know personally that they do not want me to have them so I don't give them a reason to say I can't have them. All I see are little adults acting like innocent children which I have enough of!! That's my 2 cents because "a little common sense goes a long way in my life time". I don't mean to offend anyone but some of the conversations go way and above the purpose. Carry on folks.

    http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/
    The author of the thread was not asking about importing a new firearm for retail as an FFL. That's all the list you linked applies to is NEW firearm sales.

    The OP was asking about the legality of "importing" his firearm for personal use. Which requires some analysis of the guns "features" to see if CA law declares it to be an illegal "assualt weapon" of some sort. (E.g. threaded barrel, forward pistol grip, etc.)

    No offense, but maybe you should read and understand what the adults are discussing before you launch into a name-calling tirade about using your dome for something other than growing hair out of.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    Don't Tread On Me.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    ryanburbridge wrote:
    No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to
    accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before
    January 1, 2000, is not prohibited.
    So, having owned them prior to January 1, 2000 isn't sufficient. You must have owned them in California prior to January 1, 2000.

    Gundude wrote:
    ryanburbridge wrote:
    I did not read that part. Where did you see anything about reciepts in the law?
    The burden of proof is on you to show they were purchased before the deadline.
    False.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    If an LEOsees you with a 20 rd mag, even though you tell him you bought it in 1990, he has PC to arrest you. When you show up in court, you may need to convince a jury when you bought it. A receipt would come in handy.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    I think the 1st paragraph spells out exactly what I was refer to: I could be wrong though. But if you bring in a illegal gun into this state then the bets are all off. That's my point.

    Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.


    As far as the name calling, I don't feel I sad anything that was considered name calling. If you or others feel offended by myremarks then "I'll take them back". I'm not her to bash others. I'm here to hear valid points and opinions and not what if's. I have read many of you opinions and respect them! I think I will just sit and read the posts as I have been for many months now because we come from the different side of the tracks. Carry on.

  15. #15
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    As far as the name calling, I don't feel I sad anything that was considered name calling. If you or others feel offended by myÂ*remarks then "I'll take them back". I'm not her to bash others. I'm here to hear valid points and opinions and not what if's. I have read many of you opinions and respect them! I think I will just sit and read the posts as I have been for many months now because we come from the different side of the tracks. Carry on.

    Don't stop posting because someone gets upset. We need everyones thoughts. Just try to add actual law or case law.
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    ryanburbridge wrote:
    Why can't you have a high capacity mag. It is leagle to have hi caps just can't offer to sell. If you Owned them befor the ban you can still have them. Any PC code stating different.

    9. If I have a large-capacity magazine, do I need to get rid of
    it?

    http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e_restrictions

    No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to
    accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before
    January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1,
    2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale,
    expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in
    California except by law enforcement agencies, California
    peace officers, or licensed dealers.

    (PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))
    Not illegal to buy.

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    I really was under the impression that we all better understood one of the more throughly researched (albeit inadequately phrased) PCs regarding "large capacity magazines".

    Imagine how others who may be sympathetic to our goals might feel if they wandered in here to the inanity of supposition and hearsay thats laced in this thread.

    Current factional differences aside, you might find it worthwhile and enlightening to explore the Calguns wiki and the more legally focused posts on their forum.

  18. #18
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    L in Oakland wrote:
    If there's a law in place in the state and people still try and skirt around it, then in my opinion they deserve what's coming to them.
    http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/
    At what point do you stand up against a LAW that is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Just because it's state law dose not make it right. It is our job to resist and change bad laws.
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Gundude wrote:
    If an LEOÂ*sees you with a 20 rd mag, even though you tell him you bought it in 1990, he has PC to arrest you.
    Citation?

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    marshaul wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    If an LEOsees you with a 20 rd mag, even though you tell him you bought it in 1990, he has PC to arrest you.
    Citation?
    The person making the original post seems, from his past posts,to befrom Georgia. If he is found here with a high cap mag, it would follow that he imported it. Thats where the RS would come into play.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  21. #21
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Gundude wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    If an LEOsees you with a 20 rd mag, even though you tell him you bought it in 1990, he has PC to arrest you.
    Citation?
    The person making the original post seems, from his past posts,to befrom Georgia. If he is found here with a high cap mag, it would follow that he imported it. Thats where the RS would come into play.
    I agree that importing a normal capacity magazine into CA would normally be a crime, but the OP could very well have owned his magazine in CA prior to January 1, 2000. Possession of a normal capacity magazine isn't a crime, so saying that a police officer would have PC to arrest is false. If a police officer pulls you over while you are driving into CA and finds a brand new normal capacity magazine sitting on your dashboard, then he would have PC (I think). If you walk into a police station and assemble a normal capacity magazine in the lobby then that'd be PC as well. The only time simple possession would be PC would be if a knowledgeable officer saw a person possessing a magazine that didn't exist prior to the year 2000 (like a magpul p-mag).

  22. #22
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    bigtoe416 wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    If an LEOsees you with a 20 rd mag, even though you tell him you bought it in 1990, he has PC to arrest you.
    Citation?
    The person making the original post seems, from his past posts,to befrom Georgia. If he is found here with a high cap mag, it would follow that he imported it. Thats where the RS would come into play.
    I agree that importing a normal capacity magazine into CA would normally be a crime, but the OP could very well have owned his magazine in CA prior to January 1, 2000. Possession of a normal capacity magazine isn't a crime, so saying that a police officer would have PC to arrest is false. If a police officer pulls you over while you are driving into CA and finds a brand new normal capacity magazine sitting on your dashboard, then he would have PC (I think). If you walk into a police station and assemble a normal capacity magazine in the lobby then that'd be PC as well. The only time simple possession would be PC would be if a knowledgeable officer saw a person possessing a magazine that didn't exist prior to the year 2000 (like a magpul p-mag).
    The keltec 9mm wasn't on the market till the fall of 2006. Not sure about the Military & Police .40.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  23. #23
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    and even if he could win in court, he would loose the use of his gun for a yr. or more, as it will be in the lock-up. He will have to pay for a lawyer to prove that he had the mag IN CA before 1990, and all for what?



  24. #24
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    none of my pistols are that old....i couldnt even buy guns in 2000 :P i was only 17


    i doubt i would carry openly(but you never know)just want to make sure the gun locked up in the car or in the house is gtg

    neither guns have safeties is that ok?? i guess i could always just bring my mossberg 500...

  25. #25
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    rmodel65 wrote:
    none of my pistols are that old....i couldnt even buy guns in 2000 :P i was only 17


    i doubt i would carry openly(but you never know)just want to make sure the gun locked up in the car or in the house is gtg

    neither guns have safeties is that ok?? i guess i could always just bring my mossberg 500...
    .40 S&W M&P Pistols
    209000: 15 Rd, Mag Safety, Int Lock, Std Sights, 2 Mags: $719.00
    109000: 10 Rd, Mag Safety, Int Lock, Std Sights, 2 Mags: $ n/a (California Compliant)
    209200: 15 Rd, Mag Safety, Std Sights, 2 Mags: $719.00
    109200: 10 Rd, Mag Safety, Std Sights, 2 Mags: $719.00 (California Compliant)
    209300: 15 Rd, Std Sights, 2 Mags: $719.00
    109300: 10 Rd, Std Sights, 2 Mags: $719.00
    209400: 15 Rd, Mag Safety, Int Lock, Night Sights, 2 Mags: $ n/a
    109400: 10 Rd, Mag Safety, Int Lock, Night Sights, 2 Mags: $ n/a (California Compliant)
    209600: 15 Rd, Mag Safety, Night Sights, 2 Mags: $ n/a
    109600: 10 Rd, Mag Safety, Night Sights, 2 Mags: $ n/a(California Compliant)
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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