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Do I have to show ID?

LMTD

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LT. SOUP wrote:
you are right. there are many varibles. yet show me a LEO that doesnt come off as a request. rather the later. demand. the verbage indicates the citizen has a choice to give up his ID.
Exactly,

While I have never been stopped when I was just walking down the street, I have a lead foot so I have visited with more than one officer in an official capacity:)

Most if not all, and when I watch "cops" on tv, it looks as though most officers are trained to ask proper questions.

"do you have you ID on you today sir?"

At which point most citizens hand it to them or say no.

Seems to me if you said yes, they would next say "may I see it please?" to which most folks will hand it over.

I suppose one could very well respond NO to that question.

If I opted for that, I would quickly add, "I have done nothing illegal and I will not be answering any more questions I am not required by law to answer."

If you don't shut up at that point, your going to build PC and frankly as odd an occurrence as I would guess that is, it is going to be a 19.5 minute long delay in your detainment.

Sometimes folks forget cops have rights too and they can ask you any question they like, you do not have to answer it, but they can ask em all day long.

I think what they were clearly defining is that the officer may ask to see your id, your not showing it is not criminal, if the cop demands it stating you are required to do so, he crossed a line he is not allowed to cross.

I have better ways to waste my time than making police officers lives a pain, if one ever tries to abuse his power with me, I will resist. Other than that, my usual interactions which are self provoked will remain as friendly and compliant as possible because ain't a one of them ever been pushing on the pedal on the right, that is always my fault.
 

LT. SOUP

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I couldnt of said it better. you are right on all issues there in. that is how it should be done. I guess my main point was that one should know his rights, and the way you have spelled it out would clearly show the officer in a respectful manner that he wasnt engaging a sheeple. good job Troop. Soup.
 

DarenGlock23

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IMO. I would first ask "have I done anything illegal or do you have a resonable justification for me to give identification?" If he/she awnsers, any awnser, I will Give them my ID. Just to avoid conflict.

Yes, I understand it may be my right not to, but I don't want to b rude or act as if I am above the law. I have no reason not to give them my ID. However, I will not let them procede to disarm me or cuff me unless I am being detained or arrested. In that case, I would inform them that they may do as they wish because I know my rights and will say nothing more until I speak with my lawyer and in that case I am prepared to go as far as it takes to defend any loss of my rights during the scenario.
 

usmcbess

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I refused to provide an I.D. during an open carry stop at Wal-mart today. I could have pressed the issue but one of the officers threatened me so I pussyed out and produced.
 

ComSec

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this is why I do not carry ID, I dont like the whole "Papers Please" I keep my DL in the car, and if I get stopped when Im out walking, they get the silent treatment, but its all about if they actually show me respect first, as they stopped me.

I keep my DOD ID on me if im going to need a ID for like banks and things like that, but if I get asked for ID from LEO I state I do not have my DL on me.

Its all a word game, LEOs have been trained to talk a certain way, to get people to submit when they dont have to.
 

Mule

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usmcbess wrote:
I refused to provide an I.D. during an open carry stop at Wal-mart today. I could have pressed the issue but one of the officers threatened me so I pussyed out and produced.
Which Wally World?
 

peterarthur

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MK wrote:
Note that I think there are exceptions in regards to legal roadblocks and checkpoints. I will always show my ID if stopped in one of these. If interested you may want to Google in regards to your rights when encountering one of these situations.
Supreme court has already ruled that a suspicionless roadblock or checkpoint violates the 4th amendment. Watch videos by CheckPointUSA. You are required to say NOTHING and give no ID UNLESS they can articulate a specific suspicion that you have committed a crime. Watch the vids and be set free from illegal harassment... but stop your car to avoid being shot... :)
 

lancers

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I just wanted to point out the statute posted in the first post, 84-710, is referring to Kansas City Police officers. The entire 84th chapter is about St. Louis City and Kansas City Police officers only.

It's been a while since I did research on this topic, but I believe at last review, you have no legal obligation to show ID unless the police can tell you a crime they think you have committed or are about to commit. I'll do more research this week.
 

SavageOne

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I think this thread is going in a few directions beyond the scope the OP intended.

Yes, Missouri has a "stop and identify" law. You are required to give Name, DOB, Place of birth, and they can ask you where you came from and where you are going.

I do not have the RSMO for it, however regarding an incident in OH I did some research and found it about two years ago, I doubt it has changed.

Now this is for anyone not participating in a licensed activity. CCW and Driving are both licensed activities requiring the permit be on your person 100% of the time engaged in the activity and your required to produce it at the request of LEO, if you do not have it, the LEO can detain you until which time your identity is legally confirmed.

While there certainly can be police officers who violate folks rights intentional and non, it is not the case with the majority of them.

Also note, it is NOT legal to lie to them, you can hush, but you can not lie and providing false identification verbally will result in charges filed against you.

I just wanted to point out the statute posted in the first post, 84-710, is referring to Kansas City Police officers. The entire 84th chapter is about St. Louis City and Kansas City Police officers only.

It's been a while since I did research on this topic, but I believe at last review, you have no legal obligation to show ID unless the police can tell you a crime they think you have committed or are about to commit. I'll do more research this week.

Has anyone ever come up with a definitive answer? I am of the opinion that 84-710 only applys to St. Louis and KC.

LTMD you said you found an actual statue requiring we show identification. Could you post? I have been unable to find anything, other than 84, and a former ST I talked to said they could ask, but not demand. This leads me to believe we don't have a Stop and Identify Law.
 

peterarthur

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THE QUESTION IS....

DO I HAVE TO PROVIDE "PHYSICAL" ID TO THE LEO?

The law states "They shall also have the power to stop any person abroad whenever there is reasonable ground to suspect that he is committing, has committed or is about to commit a crime and demand of him his name, address, business abroad and whither he is going."

It does NOT say you must produce an ID, only that you he can demand your name, address, business abroad and whither he is going. Notice that it does NOT say you must GIVE this information... anyone want to test that one?

I see NO requirement to show physical ID in this statute (unless performing a licensed activity) and no requirement to respond to the demand.

That is the apparent LEGAL approach, though, and this assumes the officer is acting legally. How often is this not the case?
So choose your battles wisely.

I personally refuse to ID regularly. I think cops respond differently people who can articulate a statute and it's obvious meaning... most of the time...
 

Shooter64738

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I Understand that you would have to show a "physical" id if you are carrying oc or otherwise...

The actual question is....If I am just walking down the street and a leo asked me for ID....am i required in the state of MO...to provide it..

Similar to what peterarthur has said. The short answer is no you don't. Police officers cannot arbitrarily ask you for your identification. They must have probable cause or suspect a crime has been, or is about to be committed by you. Now that's not to say an officer might demand your ID because you look like someone who did commit a crime. From your point of view, you see no probable cause. From their point of view your appearance is probable cause.

If an officer approaches you and asks for ID, you might ask if you are being detained. If the response is yes, then they have (or should have) some articulable reason for detaining you. If their response is no, then you are under no obligations to stay and chat. Any law that would allow a police officer to detain/arrest someone without probable cause would be a violation of the 4th amendment.

Just remember that it's relative to a point of view. You may look or be dressed like someone who law enforcement knows committed a crime, and that might be their probable cause. Even though you don't see it that way because you know if you did something illegal or not. Add that with the idea that law enforcement usually isn't very forth coming with why they are detaining you, and you get a lot of what seems to be unwanted attention from authorities. Police officers don't like to tell you why they are doing what they are doing, because then you may not slip up and tell them something that would add to your guilt. When this happens to someone who is completely innocent, you get a lot of frustration.

There's nothing wrong with standing up for your rights, just be aware of how it works, and you should be fine.
 

SavageOne

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The law states "They shall also have the power to stop any person abroad whenever there is reasonable ground to suspect that he is committing, has committed or is about to commit a crime and demand of him his name, address, business abroad and whither he is going."

It does NOT say you must produce an ID, only that you he can demand your name, address, business abroad and whither he is going. Notice that it does NOT say you must GIVE this information... anyone want to test that one?

I see NO requirement to show physical ID in this statute (unless performing a licensed activity) and no requirement to respond to the demand.

That is the apparent LEGAL approach, though, and this assumes the officer is acting legally. How often is this not the case?
So choose your battles wisely.



I personally refuse to ID regularly. I think cops respond differently people who can articulate a statute and it's obvious meaning... most of the time...

Yes, I understand what the law states, my question is does it only apply to KC and St. Louis?
 

MK

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Yes, I understand what the law states, my question is does it only apply to KC and St. Louis?

I don't know why it specifically states those two cities but for my own personal situation and unless I get specific advise from a lawyer known to me I am assuming it applies to the entire state. Its a very reasonable statute.

If I am not driving in my vehicle and an officer can't articulate reasonable suspicion why he believes I am engaging in unlawful activity, I won't be identifying myself further than my first name and that is just so he can address me during our consensual conversation. It still doesn't mean you won't get hassled, threatened and possibly even arrested but I am willing to go that route if needed.


There are other laws though as far as demands to identify yourself in regards to fishing and hunting permits, I'll make another thread about that.
 

usmcbess

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Labadie, Missouri, USA
If you notice the statue that was used at the beginning of this thread says for "STL and KC"! This leads me to believe that there is no statute requiring ID in any other part of Missouri.
 

mspgunner

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Feb 6, 2009
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Ellisville, Missouri, USA
If you notice the statue that was used at the beginning of this thread says for "STL and KC"! This leads me to believe that there is no statute requiring ID in any other part of Missouri.

There was SCOTUS decision onthis, I can't quote it, but seen the details else ware, you never habve to show ID or say a thing. If you are "ARRESTED" you get an attorney... step one!
As the video above said and as the rights you are read go, "You have a right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you ina court of law." There is nothing you can say that will be used for you or in your defense. You say anything, you have just given up your right to remain silent. Use it!
 
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