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Downtown Hoedown

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
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Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
from the hoedown website comment thread (my comment from yesterday did not get approv

steve
May 12, 2011 10:29 am

I noticed it said no weapons. Lawfully carried fire arms are allowed.

Reply
Linda Lee
May 12, 2011 5:12 pm

Hi Steve~ NO weapons are allowed into this event, due to the ‘crowd size’ and that is a legal expection to the normal rule. Sorry…Linda Lee
 

Onnie

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Sep 16, 2010
Messages
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Location
Maybee, Michigan
steve
May 12, 2011 10:29 am

I noticed it said no weapons. Lawfully carried fire arms are allowed.

Reply
Linda Lee
May 12, 2011 5:12 pm

Hi Steve~ NO weapons are allowed into this event, due to the ‘crowd size’ and that is a legal expection to the normal rule. Sorry…Linda Lee

I wonder just what "legal exception" she is citing?
 

smellslikemichigan

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Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
my reply and linda's reply

2nd and 4th amendment
May 12, 2011 5:27 pm

“a legal expectation to the normal rule”
what? it’s a public place. firearms are allowed end of story. dpd chief of police confirmed on fox news this AM. call him if you have any questions about the law. it’s very clear.

Linda Lee
May 12, 2011 5:38 pm

Hello again~ I was simply repeating what I was told, NO WEAPONS ALLOWED and I am in NO position to debate or explain any further. I have NO knowlege of the legalities in regards to this matter. Any additional questions can be directed to WYCD GM Debbie Kenyon, at 248-546-9600. Thanks for your understanding! Linda Lee



Read more: Top 10 Things To Know About The Downtown Hoedown http://wycd.radio.com/2011/04/29/top-10-things-to-know-about-the-downtown-hoedown/#ixzz1MB4uW6vW
 

sprinklerguy28

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Dec 9, 2009
Messages
666
Location
Michigan
I believe we need to be careful at the Hoedown. IIRC, the entire enclosed area is MLCC licensed, so Open Carry without a CPL would be a No-Go. Also, since they do not charge an Entrance Fee the Majority of Income may well be Sales of Alcohol by the Glass, which would mean that CC would be a No-Go as well. OC with a CPL may be the only way to go while carrying.

According to 28.425o you are only unable to carry concealed in

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

In my opinion the Hoedown does not qualify as a bar or tavern. It's liquor license is a "special event license. Therefore I believe CC or OC is allowed by law if you have a CPL.
 

smellslikemichigan

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Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
According to 28.425o you are only unable to carry concealed in

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

In my opinion the Hoedown does not qualify as a bar or tavern. It's liquor license is a "special event license. Therefore I believe CC or OC is allowed by law if you have a CPL.

good catch
 

Onnie

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Messages
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Location
Maybee, Michigan
Debbie.Kenyon@cbsradio.com <Debbie.Kenyon@cbsradio.com>

Sent this off tonight, I hope it sounds ok



Debbie Kenyon, VP General Manager
WYCD Radio


It has been brought to light that the "Downtown Hoedown" has apparently a "no weapons policy" in force.

The Hoedown is being held public property not private land, thus the state of Michigan has jurisdiction over this land when it comes to who can and can not lawfully carry a firearm on public property. Please see MCL 23.1102 Below:

23.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.

Sec. 2.

A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.


History: 1990, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991

A recent email sent by Linda Lee in response to the Hoedown and your policy she states "NO weapons are allowed into this event, due to the ‘crowd size’ and that is a legal exception to the normal rule. Sorry…"

There is no such exception for the size of a crowd in Michigan Compiled laws.

Yesterday our organization was contacted by Deputy Chief James Tolbert, below is a synopsis of that conversation by one off our organization's officers:

"Today I spoke with Deputy Chief James Tolbert. He assured me that lawful firearm carry will not be banned or cause an issue at the Downtown Hoedown. He also said he personally educated Commander Williams on the legalities of open carry and that no citizens would be hassled for doing so. In the case of any possible incidents, he graciously gave me his cell phone number so he could be contacted during the festival.*

I also received a call from Detroit Legal Counsel Dennis Mazurek(sp) today. He made it very clear to me there has never been a policy banning firearms from the Downtown Hoedown. The 'no firearms' signs at the entrances and the video of my friends and I being kicked out of the festival twice last year would seem to contradict that statement. Although based on my conversations with Commander Williams, it seems completely plausible it was his decision alone to enact and enforce an illegal firearms ban at the previous festivals."

Also, Today on Fox 2 news at 6 pm Chief Godbee, also confirmed that no person who attends the Hoedown who legally posses a firearm will have his rights denied by his department.

As you know this same issue came up last year at the Arts, Beats and Eats Festival in Royal Oak. It was a non issue then, it is a non issue now.

On a personal note, I am all for any lawful activity that will keep illegal firearms from the Hoedown. I want you and the Detroit police to keep these criminals from bringing in their illegal weapons, which will most likely be tucked into their waistbands well hidden away, into the Hoedown. God only knows what agenda they may have on their minds. But chances are you will not be able to stop criminals from bringing in their illegal weapon into this venue.

Last but not least, I'm not going to bore you with an explanation of the rights all Americans are granted under the 2nd Amendment of our American Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Michigan, I'm sure you have heard it enough times by now, but I will say this:

In order for me to be able to legally own and purchase my Pistol in Michigan, I went through a background check with the Monroe County Sheriff to ensure I was not a criminal. Then to get my Concealed Pistol License I went through a Pistol Safety Class required by the state. Then I went through an extensive background check by the FBI, Michigan State Police and Monroe County Sheriff. Once my background check was complete I then went in front of a Gun Board to answer any outstanding questions that they might have had. Seated on the gun board there were: The Monroe County Prosecutor, A Michigan State Trooper and a Monroe County Sheriff. Only at the end of the gun board review was I then granted a Michigan Concealed Pistol Permit (CPL). They had no problem with issuing me a license to carry a weapon on my person and after all this you still want to deny me my rights to Lawfully carry a weapon for self-protection in Hart Plaza, which is public land.

I urge you to remove any and all signs that state no weapons allowed, criminals wont obey them.

sincerely
 

TheQ

Regular Member
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Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
Last edited:

emt232004

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
14
Location
, Michigan, USA
More accurately, it's nice to see the top cop in the biggest city in Michigan stating publicly what we've always known to be true and lawful. His statement puts the department on notice that OC is growing, so be prepared, knowledgable and respectful of the people.

Maybe this will help get rid of their illegal no firearms sign leading to the lobby of their station?
 
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