• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Downtown Hoedown

sprinklerguy28

sprinklerguy28

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
666
Location
Michigan
imported post

firespec35 wrote:
No this is crap I try to be nice and I get called a forum armchair quarterback. I'm not the one who keeps saying that they saw the agreement, its not going to affect me either way but I'm calling sprinklerguy out. You got the agreement, link to it, post it, something. You cite it post it.
Click to expand...

So you want to call me out? That's fine. Because while many on here bitch, complain, and criticize, some of us are OCing and spending hours speaking with cities like Detroit to pave a path for all. I spent 3.5 hours yesterday talking with various people in Detroit PD, legal department, events staff, and council members. They are now working as fast as possible to insure there are no issues at the Hoedown. The Chief of Police's office is also involved working with the private security to make sure they are up to speed on the laws. I have a meeting with Detroit tomorrow. This is one of many that I have had with Detroit over the last year fighting for all to be able to OC in Detroit without issue. So what if there is a lot of people down there. What does that have to do with our right to carry? I've OCed in Detroit for years. I've attended parades, Hoedown the last 3 years, 2 St Patty's Day Parades, Thanksgiving Day Parade, and Riverfest, all OCing. You are right though we may end up on the news. Just like we were at Starbuck's, many city coucil meetings, picnics, and parades. I know what the laws are and yes I will continue to push cities like Detroit because the ignorance of a few is no excuse for us not to exercise our rights. As a whole Detroit is very well versed on OC. There will always be a few LEOs who do not know the law or refuse to recognize our rights, but that holds for all departments. So please feel free to join us in Detroit, or you can continue to call someone out with no knowledge of the time I've dedicated in furthering the education and training of law enforcement agencies, city council, and the public.
 
L

lapeer20m

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
928
Location
Near Lapeer (Hadley), Michigan, USA
imported post

Thank you sprinklerguy for all you do

There are those that talk about making a difference, and there are those who go out into the trenches and actually make a difference.

Surrounded by a large crowd of intoxicated people in Detroit. Sounds like a good place to have the ability to defend ones self.
 
eastmeyers

eastmeyers

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
imported post

sprinklerguy28 wrote:
firespec35 wrote:
No this is crap I try to be nice and I get called a forum armchair quarterback. I'm not the one who keeps saying that they saw the agreement, its not going to affect me either way but I'm calling sprinklerguy out. You got the agreement, link to it, post it, something. You cite it post it.
Click to expand...

So you want to call me out? That's fine. Because while many on here bitch, complain, and criticize, some of us are OCing and spending hours speaking with cities like Detroit to pave a path for all. I spent 3.5 hours yesterday talking with various people in Detroit PD, legal department, events staff, and council members. They are now working as fast as possible to insure there are no issues at the Hoedown. The Chief of Police's office is also involved working with the private security to make sure they are up to speed on the laws. I have a meeting with Detroit tomorrow. This is one of many that I have had with Detroit over the last year fighting for all to be able to OC in Detroit without issue. So what if there is a lot of people down there. What does that have to do with our right to carry? I've OCed in Detroit for years. I've attended parades, Hoedown the last 3 years, 2 St Patty's Day Parades, Thanksgiving Day Parade, and Riverfest, all OCing. You are right though we may end up on the news. Just like we were at Starbuck's, many city coucil meetings, picnics, and parades. I know what the laws are and yes I will continue to push cities like Detroit because the ignorance of a few is no excuse for us not to exercise our rights. As a whole Detroit is very well versed on OC. There will always be a few LEOs who do not know the law or refuse to recognize our rights, but that holds for all departments. So please feel free to join us in Detroit, or you can continue to call someone out with no knowledge of the time I've dedicated in furthering the education and training of law enforcement agencies, city council, and the public.
Click to expand...

Very Very well put spriklerguy! I am behind you 100%! Mr. April 25th 2010 doesn't seem to get it, he doesn't seem to be part of the movement. And well if he is in fact part of our OC movement then I welcome him with open arms, seriously I do. I just don't understand why someone would attack us (you) for trying to exercise our rights! I understand someone called you a name, firespec,sorry it happens, what do you expect on the INTERNET? Good for you for defending yourself, but you don't have to start putting down people just for making sure that their (and your) rights are not violated. OCDO hasn't been around forever, and MOC even shorter, but both have made extraordinary strides, to help the average law-abiding citizen keep their liberties!

God Bless
 
A

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
imported post

Good job Sprinklerguy! I know I appreciate what you are doing. For the guys who fret that we are somehow going to create a crap storm.. we have been hearing that for years and so far it has not happened... and as long as people remain professional that will not happen!

Know the law and exercise your rights BC it is your right to do so period!
 
hopnpop

hopnpop

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
630
Location
Paw Paw, Michigan, USA
imported post

malignity wrote:
Can you rent a public place? Is this even possible? This may be a question for the Legal Beagle?
Click to expand...
One instance comes to mind. There's a county park I know of that rents its pavillions out. It's county-owned and operated, there's a fee to enter, and you pay a fee to rent individual pavillion areas. So in this regard, it's public, and it's rentable. Just a morsel for thought...
 
hopnpop

hopnpop

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
630
Location
Paw Paw, Michigan, USA
imported post

My last comment was posted before reading the entire thread, sorry. Sprinklerguy, I, too thank you for your efforts. firespec35, thanks for expressing your concern and caution. All-and-all, especially with sprinklerguy helping lay some foundation, I think (we) have good ground to stand on. Que sera, sera. If there's a stink, most would be willing to either return their firearms to their vehicles or leave the event entirely before going to jail. The die-hards may push harder and wind up in jail. It wouldn't be the first time. We've been through all this before...
 
M

mikestilly

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
1,869
Location
Macomb County, Michigan, USA
imported post

sprinklerguy28 wrote:
firespec35 wrote:
No this is crap I try to be nice and I get called a forum armchair quarterback. I'm not the one who keeps saying that they saw the agreement, its not going to affect me either way but I'm calling sprinklerguy out. You got the agreement, link to it, post it, something. You cite it post it.
Click to expand...

So you want to call me out? That's fine. Because while many on here bitch, complain, and criticize, some of us are OCing and spending hours speaking with cities like Detroit to pave a path for all. I spent 3.5 hours yesterday talking with various people in Detroit PD, legal department, events staff, and council members. They are now working as fast as possible to insure there are no issues at the Hoedown. The Chief of Police's office is also involved working with the private security to make sure they are up to speed on the laws. I have a meeting with Detroit tomorrow. This is one of many that I have had with Detroit over the last year fighting for all to be able to OC in Detroit without issue. So what if there is a lot of people down there. What does that have to do with our right to carry? I've OCed in Detroit for years. I've attended parades, Hoedown the last 3 years, 2 St Patty's Day Parades, Thanksgiving Day Parade, and Riverfest, all OCing. You are right though we may end up on the news. Just like we were at Starbuck's, many city coucil meetings, picnics, and parades. I know what the laws are and yes I will continue to push cities like Detroit because the ignorance of a few is no excuse for us not to exercise our rights. As a whole Detroit is very well versed on OC. There will always be a few LEOs who do not know the law or refuse to recognize our rights, but that holds for all departments. So please feel free to join us in Detroit, or you can continue to call someone out with no knowledge of the time I've dedicated in furthering the education and training of law enforcement agencies, city council, and the public.
Click to expand...

I have faith in Scott and have always given him my full support in all that we do. I had no doubt in my mind that he was taking care of things and that our attending the Hoedown in Detroit would be no different then all the other actives we've done to support the OC movement. Scott (Sprinkerguy) has never failed to do everything in his power to further the cause and I had no doubts in my mind. We are working for positive outcomes in all that we do and we do it legally as law abiding citizen. People can either sit back and criticize and talk about furthering the cause or they can get up off their butts and make things happen. We are focused on making things happen!!! The question that people need to ask themselves is where do they fall in that spectrum!

PS: Arm chair quarterback is not an insult its a euphemism in which to describe the avg person who comes on to OCDO and makes a bunch of assumptions but is not involved in the events in which their assumptions are being based. If some of you are interested in what we're doing contact us and get involved. PM us on OCDO or obtain or contact information. We provide info on OCDO when we can but we're currently extremely busy and post when we can. Please get the details before jumping to conclusions based on no facts.

Mike
 
sprinklerguy28

sprinklerguy28

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
666
Location
Michigan
imported post

Due to the event at Bass Pro I will be going to the Hoedown Sunday evening at 7pm instead of Friday. I hate to change plans on such short notice. I do feel that it would be a disservice to the 2a community to not seize the opportunity to educate hundreds of people in a classroom style setting, especially with a major corporation like Bass Pro reaching out and asking for help in doing this. I hope others will still go Friday to Detroit.
 
F

firespec35

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Wixom, Michigan, , USA
imported post

Ok I gave myself some time to settle down with this one. First off good luck to all that attend I do hope there are no incidents. Hell what will probably happen if you show up in a group is Security will mistake you for DPD and you will walk right in.
Second I am behind the movement but also believe in common sense and fear that pushing too hard and too far will give the libs the public support to curtail our rights. Gun owners are not a large enough force to keep things the way we need to be, we need the General public's sentiment for us. I watch some of the newspaper sites for public comments and sometimes do comment to combat the libs but you can see who are the GP's in the comments and right now they are good but what happens in a few years with a couple bad runs in the press(yes I know most of the press are libs but they are what's there) for incidents where a crew was refused entry (right or wrong) to a large event what's gonna happen to the GP's feelings. I'd rather it not be this way. I'd rather it be as normal as wearing a green shirt on tuesday but right now its not and probably never will be in the detroit area.will it be recognized as legal? Yeah I think so. Will we be seen as normal? I doubt it. I can see it being normalized up north and out west pretty quickly. In short I belive in being a tactician and not using brute force every time.
3rd I do salute sprinklerguy and the others that bust their butt being a leader for this cause. The hoedown is one specific instance where I have inside info and still feel I'm right but sprinlerguy has definately put forth more effort than me.
4th I've worked the hoedown for a loong time and I've seen the crowds down there and seen the crowds turn on someone there and I really feel even with security retention holsters and all the training in the world isn't gonna stop someone from taking your gun if they want it. I strip all my knives off of me (I know different story) when in the crowd but I am lucky enough to usually have a cop within 10 feet of me. Trust me I agree that I would want to be armed to and from but still feel that inside is a bad idea.
Lastly I do have one more point of contention for eastmeyers who called me "mr. 4/25/10" Really dude? What does the date I joined this particular site have to do with the price of rice in China? Are you that narrowminded to believe that this site is the alpha and omega of the movement. I am the type to watch twice as much as I type so even though I've read off this site for a couple of years, the first time I had something to say was that day.
Anyways good luck to all. I will see you around and you will go "ooooohhhh you're that guy" when I meet you at a GTG. And yes I am OCing right now as I wait for my wife to finish shopping
 
W

wardog6d

Banned
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
306
Location
Romulus/Wayne County, Michigan, USA
imported post

firespec35 wrote:
Ok I gave myself some time to settle down with this one. First off good luck to all that attend I do hope there are no incidents. Hell what will probably happen if you show up in a group is Security will mistake you for DPD and you will walk right in.
Second I am behind the movement but also believe in common sense and fear that pushing too hard and too far will give the libs the public support to curtail our rights. Gun owners are not a large enough force to keep things the way we need to be, we need the General public's sentiment for us. I watch some of the newspaper sites for public comments and sometimes do comment to combat the libs but you can see who are the GP's in the comments and right now they are good but what happens in a few years with a couple bad runs in the press(yes I know most of the press are libs but they are what's there) for incidents where a crew was refused entry (right or wrong) to a large event what's gonna happen to the GP's feelings. I'd rather it not be this way. I'd rather it be as normal as wearing a green shirt on tuesday but right now its not and probably never will be in the detroit area.will it be recognized as legal? Yeah I think so. Will we be seen as normal? I doubt it. I can see it being normalized up north and out west pretty quickly. In short I belive in being a tactician and not using brute force every time.
3rd I do salute sprinklerguy and the others that bust their butt being a leader for this cause. The hoedown is one specific instance where I have inside info and still feel I'm right but sprinlerguy has definately put forth more effort than me.
4th I've worked the hoedown for a loong time and I've seen the crowds down there and seen the crowds turn on someone there and I really feel even with security retention holsters and all the training in the world isn't gonna stop someone from taking your gun if they want it. I strip all my knives off of me (I know different story) when in the crowd but I am lucky enough to usually have a cop within 10 feet of me. Trust me I agree that I would want to be armed to and from but still feel that inside is a bad idea.
Lastly I do have one more point of contention for eastmeyers who called me "mr. 4/25/10" Really dude? What does the date I joined this particular site have to do with the price of rice in China? Are you that narrowminded to believe that this site is the alpha and omega of the movement. I am the type to watch twice as much as I type so even though I've read off this site for a couple of years, the first time I had something to say was that day.
Anyways good luck to all. I will see you around and you will go "ooooohhhh you're that guy" when I meet you at a GTG. And yes I am OCing right now as I wait for my wife to finish shopping
Click to expand...


Just to give you a headsup. You should not take anything in regards to this forum personal. Half of whom replied to your commentsare quiters. In which they cannot keep there own homes and families in check let alone there own lives. They seem to have the best answer for everyone except themselves.Not to mention they will act as a freind then stab you in the back as soon as they feel they have enough evidence to provide the general public with blatent lies about you. Certain individuals will even let there family walk away from them, rather then man up and be a real husband and father. This becausethere to stupid to realize no body care's aboutthere ideals and personal affirmations. Unlike these individual's, most real men put family and our wife's before anything else. So before you take any sortof the replies to your post, personal. Recognizewho these people are! Its just a huge POS chain. Everyone falls on the chain from time to time.

Lil freak

Stanless1911

CV67PAT

Myself

Trevor

Doug

Were all POS in the eye's of the great and powerful sawed off at the legs Jew!

(Disclamier to OCDO: Not that I am racist or ignorant. I hate everyone the same, no matter what race,color or creed you are!)

:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

Let the Ban hammer Fall!

Edited: Lets not forget the fact the some of these wanna be's wont OC alone in public. That should tell you enough about them. To OC in public would take a spine! Which some have shown they do not have.
 
M

mikestilly

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
1,869
Location
Macomb County, Michigan, USA
imported post

wardog6d wrote:
firespec35 wrote:

Just to give you a headsup. You should not take anything in regards to this forum personal. Half of whom replied to your commentsare quiters. In which they cannot keep there own homes and families in check let alone there own lives. They seem to have the best answer for everyone except themselves.Not to mention they will act as a freind then stab you in the back as soon as they feel they have enough evidence to provide the general public with blatent lies about you. Certain individuals will even let there family walk away from them, rather then man up and be a real husband and father. This becausethere to stupid to realize no body care's aboutthere ideals and personal affirmations. Unlike these individual's, most real men put family and our wife's before anything else. So before you take any sortof the replies to your post, personal. Recognizewho these people are! Its just a huge POS chain. Everyone falls on the chain from time to time.

Lil freak

Stanless1911

CV67PAT

Myself

Trevor

Doug

Were all POS in the eye's of the great and powerful sawed off at the legs Jew!


:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

Let the Ban hammer Fall!
Click to expand...
 
DanM

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
imported post

firespec35 wrote:
Second I am behind the movement but also believe in common sense and fear that pushing too hard and too far will give the libs the public support to curtail our rights.
Click to expand...
We've heard this before. Well, guess what? Merely open carrying itself is "too hard and too far" to some people. Liberal civilian concealed carry is "too hard and too far" to some people. EBRs and AK-style rifles are, OMG "assault weapons", and are "too hard and too far" to some people. Keeping your gun in a readily functional and loaded state in your home is "too hard and too far" to some people. Civilian gun ownership is "too hard and too far" to some people (see DC, Chicago, New York, etc.).

The lesson to take from all this? If we are to refrain from exercising rights in waysthat are characterized as"too far and too hard" by some, we are left with not much, aren't we? That goes for a lot of rightsbeyond gun rights, I might add.

No, theexercise of any right in any peaceable, lawful, and responsible way is NEVER "too hard and too far", and REFRAINING from doing so has never proven to be effective in stopping rights from being taken away anyhow. Since when hasevil ever been stopped by goodpeople appeasing it? Never. Quite the opposite is proven historically: the ROBUST exercise of rights is the antidote against the evil of rights infringement. Our black brethren never would have gotten to sit anywhere but the back of the bus if they remained sitting in the back of the bus. But they were pushing too hard and too fast in the beginning of when they started to DARE sit in the middle and front, you know!

NEVER fear, NEVER appease,and NEVER think you are doing anything wrong in the slightest when you exercise your rights peaceably, lawfully, and responsibly.
 
eastmeyers

eastmeyers

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
imported post

firespec35 wrote:
4th I've worked the hoedown for a loong time and I've seen the crowds down there and seen the crowds turn on someone there and I really feel even with security retention holsters and all the training in the world isn't gonna stop someone from taking your gun if they want it. I strip all my knives off of me (I know different story) when in the crowd but I am lucky enough to usually have a cop within 10 feet of me. Trust me I agree that I would want to be armed to and from but still feel that inside is a bad idea.
Lastly I do have one more point of contention for eastmeyers who called me "mr. 4/25/10" Really dude? What does the date I joined this particular site have to do with the price of rice in China? Are you that narrowminded to believe that this site is the alpha and omega of the movement. I am the type to watch twice as much as I type so even though I've read off this site for a couple of years, the first time I had something to say was that day.
Anyways good luck to all. I will see you around and you will go "ooooohhhh you're that guy" when I meet you at a GTG. And yes I am OCing right now as I wait for my wife to finish shopping
Click to expand...


I wasonly pointing out the fact that someone who just officially joined OCDO was sticking their foot in their mouth by completely insulting one of our members who has done ALOT for the cause. Also that this new member seemed overly sheepish and didn't actually seem to be apart of the movement at all, just someone who wants to push their anti-OC views on us. Sorry if I miss understood. I apologize, and I am being sincere. I have read your posts since and they seem to be genuine, and I hope they are. We can always use one more good guy on our side. You have to look at it from my side though, read your previous posts before people started calling you out, you did seem like a db, for someone who just joined, usually when people first join they try to learn, not criticize. Just sayin.

Seriously, welcome

So to summarize I was defensive and a jerk at the beginning of this post, but ended it by apologizing and welcoming a new member, so I would say I evened everything out here.

God Bless
 
S

springerdave

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
665
Location
Northern lower & Keweenaw area, Michigan, USA
imported post

DanM wrote:
firespec35 wrote:
Second I am behind the movement but also believe in common sense and fear that pushing too hard and too far will give the libs the public support to curtail our rights.
Click to expand...
We've heard this before. Well, guess what? Merely open carrying itself is "too hard and too far" to some people. Liberal civilian concealed carry is "too hard and too far" to some people. EBRs and AK-style rifles are, OMG "assault weapons", and are "too hard and too far" to some people. Keeping your gun in a readily functional and loaded state in your home is "too hard and too far" to some people. Civilian gun ownership is "too hard and too far" to some people (see DC, Chicago, New York, etc.).

The lesson to take from all this? If we are to refrain from exercising rights in waysthat are characterized as"too far and too hard" by some, we are left with not much, aren't we? That goes for a lot of rightsbeyond gun rights, I might add.

No, theexercise of any right in any peaceable, lawful, and responsible way is NEVER "too hard and too far", and REFRAINING from doing so has never proven to be effective in stopping rights from being taken away anyhow. Since when hasevil ever been stopped by goodpeople appeasing it? Never. Quite the opposite is proven historically: the ROBUST exercise of rights is the antidote against the evil of rights infringement. Our black brethren never would have gotten to sit anywhere but the back of the bus if they remained sitting in the back of the bus. But they were pushing too hard and too fast in the beginning of when they started to DARE sit in the middle and front, you know!

NEVER fear, NEVER appease,and NEVER think you are doing anything wrong in the slightest when you exercise your rights peaceably, lawfully, and responsibly.
Click to expand...
Welcome, Fire.
Thank you Dan.springerdave.
 
B

budlight

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
454
Location
Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
imported post

Just curious if anyone had trouble getting in with their firearms? I'm thinking about going tomorrow, but I won't go anywhere in Detroit without a gun, it's just too dangerous.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top