Teenage robbery suspect shot to death in Gaffney,SC

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Ironbar wrote:

The only shame about this story is that there weren't two additional fatalities.

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Ironbar this is a tragedy no matter how you look at it. While I am prepared to take a life in self defense I certainly do not wish for it to happen. The restaurant employees were prepared to defend their lives and they did. By shooting the robbers they were responding to a threat. I am willing to bet that each of the shooters is mourning the fact that they killed someone although knowing they did the right thing. The good guys did what they had to do, let's not go turning this into something bad by wishing the other two teens that survived had been killed as well. I hope for their sakes that they survive, are punished for their crimes,and get the help they need to turn their lives around and be productive contributors to society.

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I'm more inclined to agree with Ironbar.

Now if we REALLY locked them up and kept them there, that might just work. However, the best solution is that the justice system charge them with the felonious, premedetated murder of their co-conspirator and, after a fair trial, are awarded a quick hanging (should they be convicted).

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All I am saying is although there is much to be thankfull about in this story there is also nothing to celebrate. One man had to take a life and another lost his life. I am sure there are a few people out there that want to die and few that want to kill others. Guns should be kept out of the hands of both.

Of course these young men, criminals, thugs, etc,were in the wrong, and certainly the restaurant workers did the right thing. I just doubt that the restaurant workers would share the sentiment in wishing that they had killed all of the teens. If I were one of the restaurant employees that killed one of these boys, I could not get on my knees every night and ask my maker to remove from this life those that survived. The blood of one of those young men on my hands would be painful enough to bear although knowing I was justified in every way.

Instead of wishing for their death I would plead with God with every fiber of my being that those of my assailants that survived their wounds would recover and face the demands of Justice, and that mercy be shown equal to their penitence. I am thankful that time has tempered my emotions.

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Rottie wrote:

All I am saying is although there is much to be thankfull about in this story there is also nothing to celebrate. One man had to take a life and another lost his life. I am sure there are a few people out there that want to die and few that want to kill others. Guns should be kept out of the hands of both.

Of course these young men, criminals, thugs, etc,were in the wrong, and certainly the restaurant workers did the right thing. I just doubt that the restaurant workers would share the sentiment in wishing that they had killed all of the teens. If I were one of the restaurant employees that killed one of these boys, I could not get on my knees every night and ask my maker to remove from this life those that survived. The blood of one of those young men on my hands would be painful enough to bear although knowing I was justified in every way.

Instead of wishing for their death I would plead with God with every fiber of my being that those of my assailants that survived their wounds would recover and face the demands of Justice, and that mercy be shown equal to their penitence. I am thankful that time has tempered my emotions.

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Actually there is much to celebrate.

GOOD PEOPLE went home safely and criminals did not.

Your GOD (not mine) made those bullets fly true and find their marks.

The blood of a POS thug ass criminal on the hands of a good honest citizen trying to make an honest living SHOULD NOT put one grain of concern into the honest citizens heart when he lays his head down on his pillow at night. For many it does but that is a function of a society that has completely lost touch with nature and the natural instinct to SURVIVE which is best done not by burying ones head in the sand not by becoming a sheeple, not by seeking out danger, but by absolutely and positively engaging deadly force with deadly (and more effective) force.

GOOD PEOPLE do not seek violent confrontation, they do not want it, they do not ask for it, but by damn they can not be told to turn the other cheek. Rather, they need to be told that if confronted by armed men with mayhem in their thoughts, they may fire at will to protect their souls without worrying about some dickhead arm chair states attorney with an agenda pressing charges.

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We-the-People wrote:

Actually there is much to celebrate.

GOOD PEOPLE went home safely and criminals did not.

Your GOD (not mine) made those bullets fly true and find their marks.

The blood of a POS thug ass criminal on the hands of a good honest citizen trying to make an honest living SHOULD NOT put one grain of concern into the honest citizens heart when he lays his head down on his pillow at night. For many it does but that is a function of a society that has completely lost touch with nature and the natural instinct to SURVIVE which is best done not by burying ones head in the sand not by becoming a sheeple, not by seeking out danger, but by absolutely and positively engaging deadly force with deadly (and more effective) force.

GOOD PEOPLE do not seek violent confrontation, they do not want it, they do not ask for it, but by damn they can not be told to turn the other cheek. Rather, they need to be told that if confronted by armed men with mayhem in their thoughts, they may fire at will to protect their souls without worrying about some dickhead arm chair states attorney with an agenda pressing charges.

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Calm down we-the-people. I never suggested that anyone burry their head in the sand or become a sheeple, neither have I ever said to turn the other cheek. In fact I have stated throughout my posts that the restaurant employees did the right thing. I also never stated that they are not good people. Go back and read the posts. I stated also that the young criminalsshould be punished, and that mercy commensurate with remorse be shown to them. This means in essence no remorse, no mercy!

You assert that "The blood of a POS thug ass criminal on the hands of a good honest citizen trying to make an honest living SHOULD NOT put one grain of concern into the honest citizens heart when he lays his head down on his pillow at night." Well maybe you are right in that it "SHOULD NOT", but you are wrong in that it does! I doubt the good guys in the original post gave each other high fives after shooting these kids. I doubt their families gave them high fives either. But I bet they hugged their families and expressed feelings of thankfullness they are alive.

I feel empathy, not for those who were in the wrong, but for those who were in the right. The criminals are learning a hard lesson and dealing with the negative consequences of their wretched actions. The good guys on the other hand are dealing with the fact that they had to kill. This is not easy. I have a good friend who returned from Iraq and has been diagnosed with PTSD. Not because he was injured or had buddies killed, but because he had to kill enemy combatants. He was justified and right in what he was doing, but he has trouble sleeping andlost his marriage. He has few social relationships because of his crazy moods and side effects of his medications. I don't celebrate his sleeples nights, wrecked marriage, and few close friendships. I haven't thrown him a party to congratulate him on taking out a few of the bad guys; he'd punch me in the face if I did. Instead I thank him for his service and don't minimize the fact that sometimes doing the right thing can be very painful. He tells me that the expressions of gratitude of those around him does dull the pain, but it doesn't stop the nightmares.

We-the-people, if you still hold fast to your belief that "a good honest citizen trying to make an honest living SHOULD NOT put one grain of concern into the honest citizens heart when he lays his head down on his pillow at night", then you have spent too much time playing video games and watching action movies where the hero kills the bad guys, gets a parade, and the girl of his dreams. In reality, there are no celebratory parades; just quiet and lonely moments,and in my friends case and others like him, you end up losing the girl of your dreams. Your philosophy doesn't stand up to reality and I suspect there are enough of us on this forum who have had these real life experiences or personally know someone who has, who can tell you you're wrong!

Stay safe we-the-people and may you never be put into the position to test out your theories. From what I know and have experienced, you'll be dissapointed.

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Answer to the idiot that asked why you would shoot them:

Does the answer "To get back the money stolen from us" mean anything to you?

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I wish YOU couldn't carry a gun. Your response proved to me why we have all these regulations heaped upon us. You want to be a vigilante, not protect yourself or anybody. I honestly hope there are no anti-gun people reading this forum. I would hate to see them get their hands on your statement and publish it.

If you don't see the sadness of a person losing their life at that age, you are a more devoid of values than the folks that comitted the robbery. Now maybe that kid that died wouldn't ever amount to anything but a robber all his life, but we'll never know. He doesn't have the chance to prove us right or wrong now. But the main thing is that it isn't YOUR decision to choose.

Everybody has a chance to change their lives. Some do and some don't. Sometimes a miracle happens and people do change for the positive, and work the rest of their lives to help instill in others, the value of goodness, mercy, and forgiveness, just like GOD has shown for all of us...even for you, for which although it is hard to comprehend, I am taught to believe in it.

Young people are impressionable, and their judgment ability is not yet well formed.
They need good guidance and the proper teaching of values...not twisted excuses for their failures. The answers given, and questions asked, by their families, screams volumes about why they were involved in this tragedy in the first place. The grown-up members of the family had no values, and looked at the actions of their kids as being victims rather than perps. And that is the reason their is still racial hatred in this country. Since 1965, the blacks haven't held up their end of the agreement. The paper didn't mention it, but I bet, by the comments, and the attitudes, that these young men were black. And don't try to tell me me I'm racist, because the type comments made fit the profile of black rhetoric in cases like this. It's their fault it does, not mine.

But, nonetheless, they are children of God, and they deserve a chance. Just like any other human being does.

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My comment that I have made to many people before and will do so again here is this...

I am prepared to take a life if necessary to defend myself, my family, or any of my fellow citizens. I am also prepared to deal with the psychological consequences of defending myself or others. Most of all, I pray that I never have to go through it because taking a life is the LAST THING I ever hope to do.

...I have friends in the military and in law enforcement that have had to take a life. I do not envy them. If anyone says they will have no remorse after doing so they are delusional, uninformed, irrational, immature, or all of the above.

Let's be logical and intelligent, not bravado driven computer commandos.

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ive read hundreds of self defense stories.

every single time the family and friends of a criminal killed or wounded by a good guy,they always say that he/she was a good person and couldnt possibly do such the thing they were accused of,and that the good guys were blood ravenous vigilante's

except ONE time,ONCE,ONE family member said that his son was a bad person,and that though he wished the outcome was different,his son was a criminal and it was only a matter of time before something like that had happened,and he didnt hold a grudge against the self defense shooter.

i applaud states that do not allow civil lawsuits against people involved in self defense shootings,when the shooting is justified.

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" If anyone says they will have no remorse after doing so they are delusional, uninformed, irrational, immature, or all of the above. "

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How about psychotic? I believe there are people in this world that don't see any difference in swatting a fly and killing a human.

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Ironbar wrote:
"The only shame about this story is that there weren't two additional fatalities."

You are right. Looks like the employees need some double tap training. Regards, Bob.

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Rottie:

This line: "For many it does but that is a function of a society that has completely lost touch with nature and the natural instinct to SURVIVE "

In my post was intended to convey that while the good people SHOULD NOT feel badly that they do because of societies ingrained, and incorrect, teachings that killing someone is wrong even if it is to protect your own life.

In many of our past wars (and "police actions), PTSD was the result of incessant shelling, absolute horrors, physical exhaustion, and the like. In todays society, PTSD somes from such (comparatively) minor actions as taking an enemy combatants life at long range. Now don't get me wrong, I'm NOT faulting our servicemen for this, not saying they can't cut it, they're doing the job they've been told to do and doing a damn fine job of it. Unfortnately, the"kinder, gentler, oh just be nice to them" mentality that has penetrated our society has become acancer among us.

As a nation we are mentally weak. We may be smart, educated (that's debatable), physically and technologically superior, but our minds are WEAK and the cancer among us works diligently to cause those that are still strong to fear the "system". 100 years ago if someone broke into your home and you shot them dead there was no "innocent until proven guilty" there was just a dead criminal to be disposed of and that was that.

Imagine, taking a "hard ass" LA gang back to, oh say, Dodge city, 1875. I think they'd be soon dispatched or find honest work as their sucess in modern times depends upon the sheep of LA.

My point is that they SHOULD NOT but society, corrupted by cancer, has many doing just that. On top of that, the "system" is designed to "fix" those that have not yet joined the flock of sheeple.

I think we've reached a turning point however, and I certainly hope so. Across the nation we can watch as the decades of anti-gun legislation is rolled back a little here and a little there. If we are lucky, we've caught it in time to save our Constitution and our country. Only time will tell and it is not going to be an easy journey regardless of which way it goes.

EDIT ADD: 18 years USMC, disabled vet I've seen enough to KNOW

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GOV5 wrote: I was going to reply but after investigating the users posts I have come to the conclusion:....... TROLL

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GOV5 wrote:

" If anyone says they will have no remorse after doing so they are delusional, uninformed, irrational, immature, or all of the above. "

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX B N M

How about psychotic? I believe there are people in this world that don't see any difference in swatting a fly and killing a human.

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What does the bolded part mean?

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We-the-People wrote:

EDIT ADD: 18 years USMC, disabled vet I've seen enough to KNOW

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We may disagree on a few things, but I think we are both on the same page that taking a life in defense of our own, family, or others is just. Thanks for your service to our country!

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In some places (maybe all, IANAL, what do I know), if there is a death takes place in the course of a violent felony (even if it was one of the criminals who was killed), the other criminals can be charged with murder. It would be interesting to see if the robbers can be charged with murder as well as armed robbery.

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We-the-People wrote:

GOV5 wrote: I was going to reply but after investigating the users posts I have come to the conclusion:....... TROLL

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I would expect an answer like that from you. You ran out of mental ammo, on which you were short of to begin with, and started the tactic of name-calling. All mentally deficient folks do the same thing. I'm just glad you catagorized yourself, and I didn't have to do it for you.

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Mr.FiredUp wrote:

GOV5 wrote:

" If anyone says they will have no remorse after doing so they are delusional, uninformed, irrational, immature, or all of the above. "

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX B N M

How about psychotic? I believe there are people in this world that don't see any difference in swatting a fly and killing a human.

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What does the bolded part mean?

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Reposted this and changed it to bolded AND blue so it's more easily seen. Can you give me an idea of what the bolded blue part means GOV5?

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It's just a way I use to break up the quote and my answer to the quote. I didn't do it in bold. Someone else may have changed it to that. At least, if I did, I didn't mean to.

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GOV5 wrote:

It's just a way I use to break up the quote and my answer to the quote. I didn't do it in bold. Someone else may have changed it to that. At least, if I did, I didn't mean to.

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I changed it to bold and asked what it meant. Then, when I didn't get a response, I changed it to bold and blue so it would be more easily seen. I just thought it was weird to separate the quote and the response with a whole bunch of X's and then "B N M" at the end when there's a quote button to the right. I think it was more the "B N M" that I was confused about as to what it meant.