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Thread: Proof guns do work....

  1. #1
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    So the other day i am listening to my 2 Meter radio 154.950 PCSD and there is call that had 2 deputies deverted to a residence because a man caught another man stealing gas out of his truck in his own driveway,

    The truck owner informed that he will escort the thief down to the end of his driveway and the next thing i know the man with the gun had the criminal waiving the cops down so they knew were they were at........


    Just goes to show that guns in the hands of the right people can and does fight crime.

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    And yet the criminal could have simply walked away without fear of being shot - last I checked, siphoning gas wasn't a felony and certainly wasn't dangerous/violent behavior. I don't see how threatening him with a gun is effective if there is no legal justification for using it.

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    No one said he threatened him with a gun. You don't have to be committing a felony in order to be placed under citizens arrest, if you're being caught in the process.

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    And I thought this thread was about testing Glocks in Austria with double- or triple-charged loads....

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    antispam540 wrote:
    And yet the criminal could have simply walked away without fear of being shot - last I checked, siphoning gas wasn't a felony and certainly wasn't dangerous/violent behavior. I don't see how threatening him with a gun is effective if there is no legal justification for using it.
    Of course, the bad guy may not know he can't be legally shot. Moreover, the bad guy doesn't know whether the citizen knows he cannot legally shoot.

    The bad guy might decide that it is probably safest for the bad guy to assume he might get shot and his body lost in the swamp, in a manner of speaking.

    Not that I consider it wise to brandish on a misdemeanant.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    ....And, this is the exact type of case where 'officer descretion' can play towards the good guy's favor.

    Bad guy gets arrested, got the S&#T scared out of him by a good guy with a gun...

    No harm, no foul. Sounds like what happened here.

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    There is a saying i am going to post and anyone who is a current Marine or former will know the quote.



    Sometimes the threat of force is far more useful than the force its self.

    -Col Chesty Puller

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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    And I thought this thread was about testing Glocks in Austria with double- or triple-charged loads....
    They weren't lead loads in a G21 were they? :P


    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    killchain wrote:
    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    And I thought this thread was about testing Glocks in Austria with double- or triple-charged loads....
    They weren't lead loads in a G21 were they? :P

    why would u assume the thread was about a tupperware dishwasher safe gun?

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    jarhead1055 wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    And I thought this thread was about testing Glocks in Austria with double- or triple-charged loads....
    They weren't lead loads in a G21 were they? :P

    [image removed]
    why would u assume the thread was about a tupperware dishwasher safe gun?
    Heh. I rock a tupperware gun. I would have rocked the G21... if the barrels didn't kaboom from reloads. I shoot quite a bit of reloads.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    "Proof guns do work"

    A "proof load" is a double or triple charged load that is used to test barrels for strength and the practice is popular among Austrian & German gun makers. A "proof gun" would be the gun that the barrel was tested in...



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    killchain wrote:
    Heh. I rock a tupperware gun. I would have rocked the G21... if the barrels didn't kaboom from reloads. I shoot quite a bit of reloads.
    I loved my G34... Reloads aren't safe in glocks because of the way the back part of the casing sticks out of the chamber. Over time, the brass weakens and can explode. (for anyone who didn't already know that)

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    No one said he threatened him with a gun. You don't have to be committing a felony in order to be placed under citizens arrest, if you're being caught in the process.
    Are you sure about this? I thought that, with few exceptions, you could only make a citizens arrest if you witness a felony.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    END_THE_FED wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    No one said he threatened him with a gun. You don't have to be committing a felony in order to be placed under citizens arrest, if you're being caught in the process.
    Are you sure about this? I thought that, with few exceptions, you could only make a citizens arrest if you witness a felony.
    Retail LP makes citizens arrests all of the time for shoplifting.

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    antispam540 wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    Heh. I rock a tupperware gun. I would have rocked the G21... if the barrels didn't kaboom from reloads. I shoot quite a bit of reloads.
    I loved my G34... Reloads aren't safe in glocks because of the way the back part of the casing sticks out of the chamber. Over time, the brass weakens and can explode. (for anyone who didn't already know that)
    Nope. Every case of KABOOOM! was tracked back to out of spec reloads, and a certain brand of powder that increased pressures beyond safe limits.. The unsupported barrel helped with the KABOOM! as well..
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    antispam540 wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    Heh. I rock a tupperware gun. I would have rocked the G21... if the barrels didn't kaboom from reloads. I shoot quite a bit of reloads.
    I loved my G34... Reloads aren't safe in glocks because of the way the back part of the casing sticks out of the chamber. Over time, the brass weakens and can explode. (for anyone who didn't already know that)
    Nope. Every case of KABOOOM! was tracked back to out of spec reloads, and a certain brand of powder that increased pressures beyond safe limits.. The unsupported barrel helped with the KABOOM! as well..
    kB's can happen with any brand of gun if you load em hot enough. Just gotta know what to look for when shooting your own reloads. When I had a Glock 23 I shot about 100 reloads to find what powder charge worked best. I didn't end up shooting em all. I loaded them 10 at a time starting low and increasing by about 0.2 grains each time. I got to about 9.6 grains of Blue Dot with Berry's Mfg. bullets before the recoil felt harsher than factory loads, and the muzzle flash was visible in the well lit indoor range. I inspected the cases and none showed any signs of overstress. Sadly, I traded it away for a 9mm shortly after, now I need 9mm reloading dies.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    antispam540 wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    Heh. I rock a tupperware gun. I would have rocked the G21... if the barrels didn't kaboom from reloads. I shoot quite a bit of reloads.
    I loved my G34... Reloads aren't safe in glocks because of the way the back part of the casing sticks out of the chamber. Over time, the brass weakens and can explode. (for anyone who didn't already know that)
    Nope. Every case of KABOOOM! was tracked back to out of spec reloads, and a certain brand of powder that increased pressures beyond safe limits.. The unsupported barrel helped with the KABOOM! as well..
    Its not factory vs. reload that will make the difference in a KB in a Glock, it's the difference between jacketed or lead projectiles. Glocks (along with some HK's, CZ's, Kahrs,etc...) have polygonal rifling as opposed to traditional broach-cut rifling where the lead can "expand" upon heating up.The polygonal rifling does not allow for this, and the gas buildup can cause a catastrophic failure that will take the easiest escape route which is usually through the case, where it is against the feed-ramp. It also increases the amount of lead fouling that occurs in the barrel. Which can exasperate the problem over time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygon...ygonal_rifling

    Polygonal rifling allows for better velocity than standard rifling which is why it is used in some handguns. I've shot thousands of reloads through my Glocks over the years, and never had an issue (or even a tell-tale sign of a problem, like a bulging case, etc..) because I made sure they were all FMJ or JHP's.

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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    antispam540 wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    Heh. I rock a tupperware gun. I would have rocked the G21... if the barrels didn't kaboom from reloads. I shoot quite a bit of reloads.
    I loved my G34... Reloads aren't safe in glocks because of the way the back part of the casing sticks out of the chamber. Over time, the brass weakens and can explode. (for anyone who didn't already know that)
    Nope. Every case of KABOOOM! was tracked back to out of spec reloads, and a certain brand of powder that increased pressures beyond safe limits.. The unsupported barrel helped with the KABOOM! as well..
    Its not factory vs. reload that will make the difference in a KB in a Glock, it's the difference between jacketed or lead projectiles. Glocks (along with some HK's, CZ's, Kahrs,etc...) have polygonal rifling as opposed to traditional broach-cut rifling where the lead can "expand" upon heating up.The polygonal rifling does not allow for this, and the gas buildup can cause a catastrophic failure that will take the easiest escape route which is usually through the case, where it is against the feed-ramp. It also increases the amount of lead fouling that occurs in the barrel. Which can exasperate the problem over time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygon...ygonal_rifling

    Polygonal rifling allows for better velocity than standard rifling which is why it is used in some handguns. I've shot thousands of reloads through my Glocks over the years, and never had an issue (or even a tell-tale sign of a problem, like a bulging case, etc..) because I made sure they were all FMJ or JHP's.
    Exactly. However, I shoot a lot of lead reloads, so I skipped the G21.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    I'm confused how is reloads made its way into this thread? i thought it was about a man trying to steal gas and the truck owner had a gun to stop the crime but what do i know? i only posted it.

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    antispam540 wrote:
    And yet the criminal could have simply walked away without fear of being shot - last I checked, siphoning gas wasn't a felony and certainly wasn't dangerous/violent behavior. I don't see how threatening him with a gun is effective if there is no legal justification for using it.

    No one said he threatened him with a gun. You don't have to be committing a felony in order to be placed under citizens arrest, if you're being caught in the process.
    Now I am really confused. First I thought that a LEO cannot arrest someone for a misdomeaner unless he witnesses it happening. Now I find out that a private citizen cannot arrest someone for a misdomeaner happening on his own property, someone stealing from you. So if someones comes in my yard and steals something all I can do is yell stop thief or I will yell again and tell your momma on you? No wonder crime is so bad now. I suppose that if I see someone stealing gas from my car parked in my driveway and I walk out there, rack my 870, point it up in the air andsay "sure would be a nice day to find out if buckshot really will blow a hole through someone", I will be arrested for brandishing.




  21. #21
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    Citizens have a greater power of arrest than "authorities" would lead you to believe. Erps posted the cases in another thread. (And erps is an LEO)

    If someone is committing a crime it is not "brandishing" to have your weapon. Besides we have no brandishing statute in this state.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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