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Thread: Why you don't take a beer bottle to a gun fight...

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    If he had only been carrying a real weapon...

    TFred
    Good Samaritan shot 4 times in Caroline robbery, suspect flees

    May 9, 2010 12:00 am

    Caroline sheriff's deputies are searching for a man they say shot a good Samaritan four times while trying to rob a gas station last night.

    According to Lt. J.H. Crowder of the Caroline County Sheriff's Office, a man entered the Mr. Fuel gas station in the Carmel Church area displaying a gun and demanding money around 9:36 p.m..

    A customer entered the store and saw what was going on. He grabbed a beer bottle from the refrigerator cases at the back of the store and struck the suspect in the back of the head, Crowder said.

    The suspect turned and shot the man at least four times, Crowder said, striking him in the head, shoulder and both legs.

    The suspect fled the store by foot and has not been located, Crowder said.

    The victim was transported to Mary Washington Hospital for treatment. His condition is unknown at this time.

    A video surveillance photo of the suspect shows a black male between the ages of 35 and 45, wearing a black t-shirt and blue jeans. He is described as being between 6-feet and 6 feet 2 inches tall.

    That photo will be released to the media soon.

    No money was taken and no one else was hurt.

    Anyone with information on this incident is asked to call the Caroline County Sheriff's Office at 804/633-5400.

    --Portsia Smith, fredericksburg.com

  2. #2
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    Obviously it wasa lite beer.

    Shoulda used a bock beer or dark ale.



    I hope he comes through all right. Gotta admire the courage and willingness to do something about it.



    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Not a smart thing to do. Hope he's OK, but with a head wound that's not likely.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Obviously it wasa lite beer.

    Shoulda used a bock beer or dark ale.

    Hold on, let me firmly establish my Geek-cred on this site, too...



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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Just to play the thread-drift "What if" game --

    So there you are, minding your own business trying to rob a convenience store when this dude sneaks up behind you and starts whaling away at the back of your head with a beer bottle. Isn't that a clear threat of death or great bodily harm?

    So do we call the thing a "clean shoot" or not?

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    * Yes, I know all about the Felony Murder rule and that the shooter is in big trouble even if the bottle-beater survives.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    skidmark wrote:
    Just to play the thread-drift "What if" game --

    So there you are, minding your own business trying to rob a convenience store when this dude sneaks up behind you and starts whaling away at the back of your head with a beer bottle. Isn't that a clear threat of death or great bodily harm?

    So do we call the thing a "clean shoot" or not?

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    * Yes, I know all about the Felony Murder rule and that the shooter is in big trouble even if the bottle-beater survives.
    Please explain.

    Regardless of whether the law covers it, if someone is trying to do me great bodily harm or kill me by hitting my body's CPU, I'm gonna put that threat down anyway I can.

    If it's illegal, then lets just say I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6...

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    There was a thread here a few months back about a guy who went to buy a small amount of pot, but got ambushed, and had to shoot the dealer or one of his associates, to save his own life.

    The end answer was that even though his life was at risk, all claims for justification were moot, because he was engaged in illegal activity at the time. I don't have the cites in my head, feel free to search for the thread.

    When you are engaged in illegal activity, the choice changes to "live in a cage, or lie in a very dark box".

    TFred

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    TFred wrote:
    When you are engaged in illegal activity, the choice changes to "live in a cage, or lie in a very dark box".
    In a lot of places it's really the same choice even when you're minding your own business and doing nothing more serious than walking and chewing gum at the same time.

    A lot of hoplophobes/liberals don't just want to ban guns, but want to ban any form of self defense. They would rather have an innocent person die than defend themselves. It really is a mental disease.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    They added an update and a security video screen shot of the suspect.

    It looks like the good samaritan is going to recover.

    http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2...5102010/546948

    TFred


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    The good Samaritan was from Maryland.

    Explains why he was not armed.

    (Not that I would have intervened).

  11. #11
    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Obviously it wasa lite beer.

    Shoulda used a bock beer or dark ale.



    I hope he comes through all right. Gotta admire the courage and willingness to do something about it.


    You need a magnum for something like this. A champagne magnum.

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    Virginiaplanter wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Obviously it wasa lite beer.

    Shoulda used a bock beer or dark ale.



    I hope he comes through all right. Gotta admire the courage and willingness to do something about it.


    You need a magnum for something like this. A champagne magnum.
    (I shoulda thought of that!)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  13. #13
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    TFred wrote:
    SNIP It looks like the good samaritan is going to recover.
    +10
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Virginiaplanter wrote:
    You need a magnum for something like this. A champagne magnum.
    Yeah, I'll bet that beer was a "40"...

    Should have used a "magnum"...

    Or a "Colt .45"...


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    Dreamer wrote:
    Virginiaplanter wrote:
    You need a magnum for something like this. A champagne magnum.
    Yeah, I'll bet that beer was a "40"...

    Should have used a "magnum"...

    Or a "Colt .45"...

    I like this one better....best baseball uniform ever!


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    James Reynolds

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    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    James Reynolds

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  19. #19
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Just saw that Channel 7 had a news story on this, and posted the video. The robber had already fired twice when the hero took action. I hadn't seen that reported in any of the print press.

    http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/051...?ref=newsstory

    TFred


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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    Just saw that Channel 7 had a news story on this, and posted the video. The robber had already fired twice when the hero took action. I hadn't seen that reported in any of the print press.

    http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/051...?ref=newsstory

    TFred
    Just watched it. Under those conditions I would have to act as well. The BG had shown by his actions if this man had not acted the outcome would have been bad.


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    Wow... The man had big balls to jump into action.

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    Quick question for the group: had the "good guy" been armed, with current laws, would he have had to engage the robber verbally first (gun drawn and ready) or could he have ended the scenario from the blindside.

    Simply, would you be legally justified in shooting the bad guy from the blindside or must you first engage him and have the threat be turned on yourself?

  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    TraumaRN wrote:
    Quick question for the group: had the "good guy" been armed, with current laws, would he have had to engage the robber verbally first (gun drawn and ready) or could he have ended the scenario from the blindside.

    Simply, would you be legally justified in shooting the bad guy from the blindside or must you first engage him and have the threat be turned on yourself?
    That would be a good question for User. I have wondered this myself. Of particular interest, you couldn't really tell from the video, but interviews with the clerk confirmed that the robber had fired the gun toward her feet prior to the bottle bop.

    I would be interested in the answer to this question from both perspectives... if or if not the robber had first fired the weapon.

    TFred

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    TraumaRN wrote:
    Quick question for the group: had the "good guy" been armed, with current laws, would he have had to engage the robber verbally first (gun drawn and ready) or could he have ended the scenario from the blindside.

    Simply, would you be legally justified in shooting the bad guy from the blindside or must you first engage him and have the threat be turned on yourself?
    From my understanding of the law in South Carolina, may not apply anywhere else, from two different CWP classes is that in such as case as you describe the "Alter Ego" principle is applicable. What this means and the almost exact same scenario was used in the classed is that you can place yourself in the shoes of the clerk and act as if you were the clerk.

    To put it plainly you are in the back of the store and see the clerk being robbed at gun point. The clerk is in great danger of being shot and in fear of his life and would be fully justified under castle doctrine to shoot the robber. Since the clerk is justified in shooting the dirtbag you can take him out from behind without saying a word.

    So if the "good guy" had been armed he could have save the courts lots of time and money, saved himself from having to visit the doctor and rid the world of one more dirtbag with no legal problems. IANAL and this is just what I was taught in CWP class for SC. YMMV

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    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    This place is in the path to and from work for me. I stop there from time to time always carrying. Not that I ever want to take someone out if it can be avoided, but had he had timed it different with me being there he might not have been so fortunate to get away. However I wouldn't have been so lucky either with the legal aftermath, confiscation of weapon as evidence and other things.

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