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Thread: Generation Y @ Carthage

  1. #1
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    Although I haven't said much on here since I joined that isn't out of lack of interest! I'm finishing up my freshman year here at Carthage College(Kenosha WI) and wanted to share something I found fairly interesting and partly disturbing.

    As part of one of my required general classes we were asked to do a speech on a class or group of citizens which we believe are seen though a "veil" by society. (based the writings of Du Bois.)

    Some months ago in this class our discussion for whatever reason lead to the teacher asking those of us who knew someone who owned an unregistered gun to raise our hand. I raised my hand instantly, and a few others more slowly, and she quickly added that we shouldn't specify who we knew. Apparently she believed it to be illegal. I told her that I myself owned an "unregistered" gun(I consider my .410 to be unregistered seeing it's been passed down as opposed to my other guns which required a transaction record to purchase) and that although I didn't (at the time) know what the law was in Illinois, that in Wisconsin a citizen is not required to register their guns or possess a permit for owning a firearm.

    Well, being influenced by this event and seeing that most of my fellow student were from either Illinois or Wisconsin and seemed fairly ignorant of the laws, I chose to write on those in society who choose to exercise their second amendment rights as being behind a societal "veil".

    The speech time was fairly limited so I tried to give them as much information as I could on paper to supplement the speech. This included a basic overview of gun laws in WI, especially the controversial ones, the 1000ft GFSZ map of Milwaukee(which is rather close to us), some quotes, some great links, and Wisconsin Carry Inc. Pamphlets (printed off extra of these and put them on the boards around campus while I was at it.)

    Come Fridays class and we spend about 45 minutes talking about the new Arizona illegal immigrant law. What disturbed me is that while most agreed that it was a violation of a persons rights (I specified 4th amendment), the general opinion of the class was that this was something that would be inevitable, basically a "necessary evil".

    Both my teacher and I were a bit shocked, and based on the way the conversation was turning and how much I was providing to it she allowed me to do my presentation then as a bit of a wrap up. I have to be honest, it was my first one of the year and I got a bit nervous, but I did fairly well. =)

    I opened my speech by asking how many of the students supported/believed in the constitutional amendments covered by the Bill of Rights. About 1/5 of the class raised their hands. This is something that really surprised and kind of horrified me. It appears that the general consensus of my class that in order to gain security one must give up liberty, and that this is perfectly acceptable in todays society. (I had that quote on one of my sheets luckily and brought it up)

    The speech didn't come out too badly, I covered most of what I intended and was able to answer some questions. At one point another student who is apparently some sort of police assistant made the statement that a person must legally have a form of ID on them at all times and provide it if asked by a police officer. I corrected him and brought up the situation of the case mentioned on the WI Carry Inc. pamphlet as proof.

    A part of the classes previous discussion on the new Arizona law caught my eye and I brought it up as well. Part of the phrasing of this new law was a vague statement that for an officer to "card" a suspected illegal immigrant that officer only needed something less than reasonable suspicion but more than a hunch. The wording was similar enough to instantly make me think of some statements from the Milwaukee chief of police on open carry and I brought that up as something a bit closer to home. What it came down to was a system of "guilty until proven innocent" and once again the class seemed okay with this.

    Well, I never really intended to get into details on the speech here and waste your time. My whole point was that people who chose to exercise their right to bear arms in Wisconsin and Illinois are seen with an undeserved negative light and that in fact many of my fellow students were the culprits. Part of our assignment was to connect our speech with Du Bois' "The Souls of Black Folk". Du Bois speaks of when the slaves were first emancipated, they were handed arms and asked to fight for their freedom. The fertilizer of the tree of liberty is the blood of patriots, and without the 2nd amendment we are all 2nd class citizens. The class seemed to think I was crazy(er).

    The whole ordeal made me feel....well....

    I did have a few supporters, the professor being one of them to her credit. I'm just generally surprised by their reaction and wonder if most of my generation are like them, passive in their rights yet unwaivering in their beliefs. To be honest a lot of my college appears to be upper-middle class from Illinois, so might be a bit of a bias there. I find my college a bit funny as in we have a pretty determined security staff (They have 24/7 rounds and I see them all the time) yet of course nobody on campus carries and the theft/vandalism rates have skyrocketed, yet everyone feels like things are fine. (My bike was recently stolen and I was told that it was the tenth in one week. After a few days of hearing nothing about the situation I went out and eventually found it myself.)

    Anyways, I'm looking forward to purchasing my first handgun this summer and actually exercising the rights which I am advocating!(Once I save some money and If I can find a seller. I wish they'd trash the 21 year old purchasing restriction through registered dealers)Sorry about this post being a bit of a rant.

  2. #2
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    welcome to college.

  3. #3
    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Your on the right track. Wish I had been more interested in the direction my country was going in back then. Good job on the presentation.

    Like Johnny Appleseed, drop a seed here and there, who knows what may come of it.

    Carry on, Hardballer
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

    http://buffaloholstercompany.blogspot.com/ Concealment holsters IWB, SOB, and belt slide. Open Carry too. New from Buffalo Holster, Women's holsters for concealment and or belt carry.

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    Well done, AaronBC. Also compliments to your professor for allowing and trying to encourage open discussion of issues in her classroom; not many academics do so today.

    I would suggest that the experience you had with the level of ignorance and passivity in the class is not at all unusual for your generation. Many of them seem more concerned with the results of American Idol than they are our political process. I am a university professor and am appalled at what I see on campus. I lay the blame on: 1) parents for being too stupid and lazy to try to educate their kids, 2) lazy and ignorant teachers from elementary through secondary school systems for not educating students properly in American government including reading the Constitution and the Federalist Papers, and 3) the students themselves for being complacent, apathetic, and intellectually lazy.

    I had a discussion with one of my older son's classmates (12th grade) a couple of weeks ago about political correctness and our freedom of speech. I asked him about the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights and why we should violate that just because someone is "uncomfortable". He responded that he had a Constitutional Right to not be offended by speech. I asked him (challenged him) to show me where in the Constitution it said that, he was offended by my request and responded with a personal attack. Still haven't heard back from him.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I dont think its a "college" thing. From my personal experience its a general lack of knowledge when concerning peoples rights. Its difficult to re-educate people that guns are not evil, that they have the right to keep and bear arms. All I can say is keep fighting the good fight.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    I dont think its a "college" thing.* From my personal experience its a general lack of knowledge when concerning peoples rights.* Its difficult to re-educate people that guns are not evil, that they have the right to keep and bear arms.* All I can say is keep fighting the good fight.
    I agree with this. I find that it's not an age thing (college thing), nor is it limited to economic class. Most people I have conversed with don't know what their rights are and are genuinely shocked to learn that they do not have to bend over for the cops, and that they don't "need a permit for THAT".

    Good job on the speech, AaronBC. I have spent a fair share of time on the Carthage campus, and I know what you mean about the 24-hr "security" people. What a joke.

    I felt (and was) "safer" OCing in Racine with my rights intact and pistol on my hip than while on that campus with my gun locked away and off the college grounds.
    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  7. #7
    McX
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    theory is good to discuss in school, but then they go back to a dark parkinglot, and suddenly it's life in the real world, i'm glad to hear you had your say (rare), and that you found a few who have been in the real world. we appreciate greatly that now your generation speaks of the real world in the classroom. so that they might learn, and prepare, as we have here. a win.

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    McX wrote:
    theory is good to discuss in school, but then they go back to a dark parkinglot, and suddenly it's life in the real world, i'm glad to hear you had your say (rare), and that you found a few who have been in the real world. we appreciate greatly that now your generation speaks of the real world in the classroom. so that they might learn, and prepare, as we have here. a win.
    Yes. There is classroom theory and then there is the real world. They are very different.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Guilty until proven innocent is the standard in the USA today.

    We see a fella stopped on the side of the road, LEO parked behind with bubbles on, most people ASSUME, "they got him for something."

    We have given way to much power to government for way to long. Government needs to be reminded, they work for us!

    That's what I say when I'm asked so what do you mean by "take back America?"


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    My favorite is this: "If you have nothing to hide then why not allow police to search you, your vehicle, your house, etc.?"

    There are a lot of folks out there willing to give up their Constitutional Rights (as well as those of others) just because they believe it will provide them more "safety". What they do not realize is that they are simply trading one predator (criminals) for another (police state) that is more efficient in causing them damage in the future.

  11. #11
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    My strongest supporter was a girl who did her report on rape victims, so I think it might be that the rest just don't know what the world can be like.

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