• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

My family doesn't "get it"

johnny amish

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,024
Location
High altitude of Vernon County, ,
imported post

I have had this same problem with some of the guys at work. It is hard to argue when you are talking about opinion so I started to show them some stats off the web. They will have a hard time arguing when thefacts don't back up their side of the argument. Also the book by John Lott JR. More Guns Less Crime is a good place to start. The facts don't lie. I also have been cutting articles out of the paper about the crimes that happen in our area and showing them that bad things happen to good people. Don't let them discourage you, you are doing the right thing. You should feel proud for standing up for your rights. Carry on my friend.
 

petrophase

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
300
Location
Rapid City, South Dakota, USA
imported post

My fiance and her family don't have a philosophical problem with OC. Her father has always had a .357 for home defense and for carrying while walking in the woods. I recently convinced my fiance to purchase her first handgun for CC; she subsequently convinced her mother to get her first handgun. They (her and her parents) are more inclined to CC because their jobs prohibit carrying altogether.
However, when we visit her parents I usually don't remove or hide my piece; they don't seem to care.
The biggest obstacle was not convincing them that carrying was OK or a right, but that it was worth it to myself and to them to carry always. The area that we live in had a very low violent crime rate, etc, etc, etc... Of course, You and I know that crime rates mean squat and that it only takes once to get raped or murdered.
Anyway, I've made good progress with them, and my fiance would like to OC with me at least some of time as soon as we find a retention holster for her LCR.

I should mention that her family are easy marks: all are from rural areas, most are from Wyoming, some are ex-cops, ex-military...

Now my family is from Maryland. Mostly from Baltimore City. I have not even begun to breech the topic. Since I can't carry a gun in MD (who can?) it will be an entirely academic conversation anyway.

Don't give up, keep trying.
 

hunter9mm

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
255
Location
Greenfield, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

SIGdude wrote:
Just like what the title says. Everyone in my family acts completely ignorant about me open carrying.

My wife thinks it is "the most idiotic idea I have ever had" and thinks that it not only endangers my safety but the safety of everyone around me. She refuses to go anywhere with me if I have my gun on my hip, and is even reluctant to be in a car with me while the gun is cased and locked in the trunk. The bizarre thing is that her dad is a big hunter and gun buff.

This is where it gets more wierd. People in her family seem to share the same belief that she does, despite the fact that they have a room in their house that looks like an armory. I'm not sure why they all have this idea in their head that me doing this puts everyone at risk; they aren't crazy wigged-out libs or constitution stompers, I really thought of all the people I talked to about this that her family would be the most accepting of it. Instead, I'm no longer allowed near her younger sister's un-conceived children with "that F#$%^# thing".

It makes it exceptionally difficult to do something that I whole-heartedly believe in when the people that are supposed to be my support structure fail to do just that: support me in my decisions. Nothing I can say or do makes them understand that it is MY RIGHT, which SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED UPON. I feel exponentially more uncomfortable having to argue this point with people than I feel about strapping my gun on and going out. Normally I am a very eloquent and pleasant conversationalist, but for some reason I can't get by why people can't just leave it be with "It's my right to do so, you are not in any danger."

So if any of you have some tips that have really turned the tide of a conversation to your favor and garnered some support, help me out, because I really can't stand it when people try to trample my rights, especially people so close to me.


Have your wife watch this youtube video.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis



Let us know how it goes after she watches it.



It opened my wife's eyes.
 

Brendon .45

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
282
Location
Peoples' Republic of Madison, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

My wife seems to be getting used to it. She too wasraised and brainwashed to think guns were evil.

What I think swayed her was this:I used to be against others peoples rights when those rights went against my previouslymyopic world view. When I really started digging into the 2nd amendment rights Istarted to understand that if I want people to respect my right to bear arms, I need to respect their right to do whatever it is they want to do; justso long as they are not hurting anyone. I explained this to her and she was suddenly more agreeable.It only took 12 years but we went from her saying "there will be no guns in MY house" tome taking her out shooting this weekend forher first time!

It also helps that the neighbor lady invitesus over but insists I bring the gun!
 

Cobra469

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
218
Location
West Allis, WI, , USA
imported post

I wasn't nearly so nice when I had the discussion with my wife. I pretty much told her that it was my right therefore I will. At first she didn't want to go anywere with me out of fear that I would get arrested. That was her biggest concern since she enjoys shooting it wasn't the safety issue but more of a legal issue. After she saw that nobody was freaking out about it she started to just accept it. Had a really positive experience with a gentleman at Chase bank the other day who made the comment that he felt safer with me there and that was just the icing on the whole issue.

Her son on the other hand was scared at first as he had a mentality that guns go off on their own. So he took a little work to un-brainwash.

My brother doesn't like it and wanted to debate the whole issue and make me look eager to kill somebody. After a few conversations with his buddy who has a lot of family in LE (and was a troll on this forum back from the State Patrol event) he started to realize it was legal just not his way of doing things. Out of respect for him I won't carry at his house but will not refrain from carrying when in public with him or his family.

Now the in-laws I haven't even gone there yet. They all live in Florida so hopefully I will have my FL CCP soon. Then I don't exactly plan on telling them anything since when I am down there I will be CC and they are likely not to notice. They are very much firm believers that the cops are going to protect you and you have no reason to fear.

My oldest sister is very against any form of carry and was heated to the point that I normally have to hang up on her cause all she wants to do is twist it around saying that there is nothing stopping us from going postal on everybody. She got really heated with the new changes in AZ especially. I have given up on her and pretty much told her she can feel how she wants and I will feel how I want. But I made it clear that I will do want I feel safe doing so long as it is in accordance with the law regardless of her opinion.

All in all I have quite a bit of work ahead of me but winning the wife and her son over was all I cared about. As for the rest they can choose whether to be around it or not and that is a decision that they would have to make. I try not to carry in a persons home who doesn't approve of it but I still empty holster it so that eventually when I "forget" to unholster (not that it is even possible after transport) it is less of a shocker to them.

Interestingly enough I have had a large number of my customers after seeing my empty holster, while performing in-home technical support, tell me straight forward that I don't need to worry about securing my weapon in my car and that they have no problem with my stance on personal safety. I just reply to them that I was unsure of their beliefs in the situation and out of professionalism I chose to secure my weapon to not offend them by implying that I don't feel safe in their home. Then I have those customers that I just don't care because I don't feel safe in their home let alone their neighborhood lol.
 

Hostilefreak

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
28
Location
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

It's nice to see someone from my own town trying to carry. If anyone tried to carry here it would probably make the newspaper. I haven't tried to carry yet because I know that everyone will call the cops. When I was in Highschool about 3 years ago we did a short film on Jimmy Hoffa. We filmed it in downtown Baraboo. We parked where the elks club is and we got out of our cars, opened up the trunk and got out FAKE PLASTIC toy handguns.We were trying to portray the gangsters in the movie. When we were almost done filming about an hour after we started we see an unmarked cop car pull up and a cop starting walking towards us. Some paranoid citized called the cops on us! They honestly thought even with a video camera right there that we were trying to do something bad. That tells you how bad Baraboo is for open carrying. The cop took down our names and phone numbers and took away our fake toy guns that we didn't care about in the first place. One of the cops almost pulled out his gun and pointed it at my friend. The cops were there for about an hour so the whole short film turned into a long pain in the a$$. That's why I'd never carry here in Baraboo.
 

bnhcomputing

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,709
Location
Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Hostilefreak wrote:
It's nice to see someone from my own town trying to carry. If anyone tried to carry here it would probably make the newspaper. [We STILL have people who say that in La Crosse as well. There are several forum members here who carry in Baraboo on a regular basis. I carry EVERYWHERE I go, and when I've stopped in Baraboo I carry there as well. It doesn't make the paper because it isn't NEWS, as so many are doing it.]

I haven't tried to carry yet because I know that everyone will call the cops. [Actually, most people don't notice, and the people who do are more curious that anything else. There are isolated cases where people call the police, but there is no record of any individual being arrested or fined for mere "open carry" in the last six months, and especially after the judgment against Racine.]

When I was in Highschool about 3 years ago we did a short film on Jimmy Hoffa. We filmed it in downtown Baraboo. We parked where the elks club is and we got out of our cars, opened up the trunk and got out FAKE PLASTIC toy handguns.We were trying to portray the gangsters in the movie. When we were almost done filming about an hour after we started we see an unmarked cop car pull up and a cop starting walking towards us. Some paranoid citized called the cops on us! They honestly thought even with a video camera right there that we were trying to do something bad. That tells you how bad Baraboo is for open carrying. [I encourage you to attend the picnic in West Salem this weekend. You will meet many people who OC daily and probably some from your area.] The cop took down our names and phone numbers and took away our fake toy guns that we didn't care about in the first place. One of the cops almost pulled out his gun and pointed it at my friend. The cops were there for about an hour so the whole short film turned into a long pain in the a$$. That's why I'd never carry here in Baraboo.
As I stated, I have carried there SEVERAL times, and I am certain others will chime in how they carry regularly there. This, "will be arrested myth," is just that, a myth. We are not seeing this at all.

Is there a guarantee you won't be hassled, NO, but the norm is we are simply left alone.

Read up, Load up, Holster up, and Carry On.

btw, hope to see you all at the picnic on Sunday.
 

CommonMan101

Regular Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
123
Location
Dallas, Texas, USA
imported post

SIGdude wrote:
...Instead, I'm no longer allowed near her younger sister's un-conceived children with "that F#$%^# thing".
...

I'm still trying to figure out how one stays away from un-conceived children. Wouldn't that mean staying away from all the other potential sperm donors too? Impossible.

Everyone I have seen solidly flip from no to yes had a close call with a bad guy in what they considered a "safe" place. My daughter-in-law flipped fast and far whena cop knocked on the door from the living areato the attached garage - the door that no one should be knocking on because that means someone is in your garage thatshould beclosed!

Some guys had been working the alley and tripping the sensor that keeps it from closing on someone - leaving it wide open. That means the guyswere close by and watching them when they hit the close button when entering the house! That was enough!

Finding ANYONE knocking on that door and standing in their garage was enough for her. She felt lucky it was a cop and told my son to go ahead and get the gun he had been wanting. The safety of her and the children seemed better with it than without it all of a sudden. "Bad gun" not so bad in a matter of seconds!

Unfortunately all sorts of luck is involved in this method. If you run into a bad guy in the movie parking lot it may be too late to change your mind.
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
1,197
Location
, ,
imported post

hunter9mm wrote:
Have your wife watch this youtube video.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis

 

Let us know how it goes after she watches it.

 

It opened my wife's eyes.

That is a great video to have an unsupportive wife/girlfriend/significant other watch and it utilizes the method most effective when dealing with people whom you can't reach with logic.

The human brain has 2 hemisphere's as we all know. The right brain and the left brain. Its physiologically proven that each side of the brain responds to different stimuli. Its also proven that decision making processes in a human being is a result of how we process that stimuli.

The left side of the brain being "logic" and the right side of the brain "emotion".

Everyone utilizes both sides of their brain, but tend to let one side of the other dominate. That is a result of multiple factors from genetics to their life experiences as well as situational variables.

If you are dealing with a person who by and large is an emotional (right brain) dominant person, you can save your breath with leading with facts and logic. It won't be received. They may even acknowledge you are right and the facts are correct but they "still don't think its a good idea" Thats how powerful emotion is. It won't LET people think a certain way. Even if their right brain is saying "hey, thats correct" Think of the girl who dates a guy that beats the @#$% out of her but she still loves him despite the fact that ANYONE not emotionally involved in the situation (which is everyone but her) see's the picture SO clearly. You don't think emotion over-powers logic? It does EVERY day.

The human brain has an AMAZING capacity to justify anything that comes its way in order to make it fit their emotional standing. Abused women convince themselves they are at fault and stay with an abuser. The list of things people will allow themselves to believe if it supports their emotions is limitless.

When dealing with right-brain dominant people you MUST lead with emotion. Logic and facts will be useful ONLY after you have appealed to their emotions and created chemical reactions in their brain that allow them to accept fact and logic based data. It is MUCH harder to make an emotional appeal to someone than a logical one, but thats how you must lead.

That fact and logic based data IS only THEN useful to support their emotional tendency. But fact and logic based data rarely penetrates an emotional person's thought process.

Its HARD for left-brainers (logic based) people to resort to emotional appeals because that doesn't make sense to them. They don't realize that literally OTHER PEOPLE DON'T THINK LIKE YOU DO. We think the way to convince people is with facts and data... Its NOT. Jeri Bonovia (W.A.V.E.) "doesn't think like we do" thats why our logic and our fact makes NO difference to her. She would find any way in the world to internally discredit the facts and logic we give her because it doesn't fit her emotional standing.

We are all emotional to greater or lesser degrees. Some people are ruled by their emotions, some people temper their own emotions with logic.

Some people are uncomfortable acting on emotion based responses. Some people are uncomfortable acting on logic/data observations because that doesn't satisfy their emotional tendency.

The reason people get frustrated and can't understand why other people don't "get it" when the facts and data CLEARLY support a particular conclusion is that they don't realize they are dealing with a right-brainer.

The logic that works for a left brainer... The logic that is SO obvious and supportive of a particular conclusion won't matter to a right brainer unless their emotional position is affected/changed first, and THEN that logic and data can be used to justify/confirm their new found emotional conclusion. Ironically at that point,for some they don't suddenly like data and facts because they are true and accurate, they like ANYTHING that justifies their new emotional position. For others who tend to usually be logic/left-brainers, but on a specific issue had an emotional view, they will feel relieved that they can now accept what they use to have to pretend didn't exist (or discredit because it didn't fit their emotional viewpoint)

The first key is to recognize who you are dealing with. (and to be honest, the mind is a dynamic thing. Many people think with their left brain for certain topics, but then other topics they revert to emotion-based right-brain thinking) Example, when you are at work, you deal with people and you may be very left brain. Get home, and its a different story, emotion based decisions are more common.

SO to effectively communicate with people, you first have to learn how, on a particular issue or situation, that person is thinking. Once you determine that, then you decide whether to make a fact-based argument or if you must first make an emotional appeal to them in order to open-up their thinking and THEN support their emotional need with logic and data.

In the case of a gun issue. When someone has an emotional conclusion about guns, understand why they feel that way. Ask them why they don't like guns. Sometimes you'll hear they had a bad experience. They know someone that was hurt by one, perhaps they know someone that committed suicide with one. Perhaps its just decades of seeing only negative gun-news on television. All emotion based. You have to listen first. When you think you've listened to it all and you think you understand them, listen more.

If on the other hand you ask someone why they don't like guns and they say "statistically, guns account for blah blah blah" THEN you might be dealing with someone who's a left brainer, but just has gotten bad data. For a person like that, you CAN go directly to providing accurate data (but of course you must be able to provide documentation for the person) Most people who are anti-gun are not anti-gun because they got bad data, they are anti-gun because on that topic its an emotional one and an emotion based conclusion.

So, just like the youtube video posted above, that lady doesn't tell her story with statistics. She tells it with emotion. That is the only effective way to bring emotional right-brain dominant thinkers (when it comes to guns) over to your side.

If you are dealing with a woman who is anti-gun but has kids. Ask her "so if you were at home alone watching TV with your kids and a drugged up lunatic busted through the front door with a machete, and came at your kids, you wouldn't want to be armed to shoot him? You'd rather let your kids be attacked by that madman while you call 911?" TRUST ME, the "mom", protector of her children, will begin to carve out exceptions to her "anti-gun" stance".

But again, it all revolves around being ABLE to make an emotional appeal first. Thats not as easy as it sounds. You have to really understand a person, understand how they think, how they formed their views, what is important to them, and play on all those emotions to begin to change their way of thinking.

People who are capable of making those emotional appeals are effective and dangerous at the same time. If you can appeal to someone's emotions to get them to do the right thing, you sure as hell can appeal to their emotions to get them to do the wrong thing.

So when you make emotional appeals to change people's way of thinking. Once you get them to a new view, its critical to "shore up" that new view with logic. The person will be receptive to logic now. Because NOW logic justifies their emotions, not contradicts them. Of course is also important to get people to then REALIZE that they were making an emotional decision so that in the future, they can learn to temper their OWN emotions with logic and avoid being easy pray for emotion based appeals in the future.

A few more suggestions of examples to make emotion-based appeals to anti-gun moms/girlfriends/wives, or even the anti-gun husband etc.

-If they have a son/daughter away at college. Say "so while your daughter is away at college in Madison and she walks home late one night from the library at closing time, you wouldn't feel safer knowing she could carry a sidearm in her purse" then add some fact "You know a girl was raped in Madison last year when, blah blah blah." You'll begin to carve out exceptions in that persons mind to the fact that guns have no good purpose.

-if they have a boyfriend/husband say "so if your husband was working late and left their office downtown late at night you wouldn't feel safer if they could carry a gun so that they could protect themselves if they got mugged going from their office to their parking garage 4 blocks away? And add a true story "remember that student at UWM who was walking home from class and murdered last month"

If its the open-carry thing only, thats easy. its the only legal way in Wisconsin.
 

SIGdude

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
89
Location
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Let me clarify a couple things.

My wife and her family don't have an inherent problem with firearms. My wife has pulled the Sig we keep in the bedroom out when I wasn't home because she thought someone was breaking in. She understands why I have them in the house and so does her family.

They DO NOT understand why I feel the need to carry them around. They are under the assumption I'm just going out looking for trouble or that I'm definately going to get gunned down in the street just for having it on my person. All of them would obviously do anything in their power to protect themselves from a dire situation, but what they don't understand is that dire situations do not arise AFTER you are prepared completely for them. Despite the fact there is not alot of violent crime in the area, I still would rather have the gun with me and not ever have to use it than have a situation arise where it could have kept myself or other innocents safe.

A guy tried to burn down my place of business on sunday night, covering both the front and side doors in gasoline and lighting them on fire. One of the other employees saw it take place and him and another guy had fire extinguishers on the flames in a few seconds. Damage minimal. That isn't the point. There are people out there walking around that try to burn down a building you are in because they were asked to leave and didn't think they should have to.

I don't want to carry the gun because of the thousands of unreasonable people that don'ttry to do anything tome every day. I want to carry one on the off chance that one of them does.
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
1,197
Location
, ,
imported post

If your family and wife are the logical thinking type on this issue, surely a discussion of nightly news activity would demonstrate that crime happens in large cities, small towns, day, night, in nice neighborhoods and poor neighborhoods. Mass murders happen in COLLEGES, SCHOOLS, MALLS and CHURCHES.
These examples are available on the nightly news. If those examples do not appeal to them, they are not logical thinkers (regarding this particular issue)

at which point, make the emotional arguments (see my previous post)
 

bnhcomputing

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,709
Location
Wisconsin, USA
imported post

"you don't need to carry in Walmart." Well, inform them that it is official Walmart policy to not intervene if one of their customers is robbed.

This is just one link, but it gives you enough info that you can search and find hundreds of articles regarding the situation and the official policy. http://www.click2houston.com/news/22806207/detail.html

The only ones who are going to protect us, is us.
 
Top