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Thread: Clarifying CA Open Carry Law & Questions

  1. #1
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    This is a letter that I was going to send to my local DA in Los Angeles. They will respond my letter and I would like to carry the letter from the DA's office confirming the below. Any advice would be appreciated. I'd love to open carry with anyone else in the Los Angeles, Orange County area.

    ------



    Open Carry laws are of great interest to me, and in the event that I choose to Open Carry, I would like to make sure that I understand the laws and that I avoid all necessary areas as required by law.



    Please correct me if I am mistaken, however I believe that I can Open Carry (carry a firearm in a holster, non-concealed, and with no ammunition attached to the gun), with the exceptions listed below (please advise if there are other exceptions that I am missing):



    • Can’t bring any firearm into state or local public buildings or to any meeting that is required to be open to the public. (PC171b[/b])
    • No Loadedfirearms in State Capitol, legislative offices, Governor’s or other constitutional officer’s office, or any Senate or Assembly committee hearing rooms or on State Capitol grounds, bound by 10th, L, 15th, and N Streets, Sacramento. (PC171C[/b])
    • Can’t carry/possess a Loaded firearm in the Governor’s, Legislator’s, or any other constitutional officer’s residences. (PC171d[/b])
    • Loadedfirearm for 171c[/b] and 171d[/b] is defined as: both the firearm and ammunition for that firearm are in the immediate possession of the same person. (PC171e[/b])
    • No open carry within 1000 feet of a K-12 school,“in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know” is within 1000ft of a K-12 school, on a university (public or private) (PC626.9)
    • No open carry on U.S. Postal Service Property (39 CFR 232.1 (I))
    • Bringing a firearm into a “sterile areaof an Airport is a misdemeanor. A Sterile Area is an area where access is controlled through the screening of persons and property. or “sterile areas” (49 CFR 1540.111 and PC171.5)
    • Can’t carry a firearm/weapon into any building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties. (§930[/i][/b])[/i]

    I did have a few other questions that I was looking for clarification on as well.



    1. While transporting a handgun in a vehicle, can the gun be in a locked container with the ammunition, or do they need to be locked in 2 separate containers.
    2. I would like to confirm that as a law abiding citizen, I am not legally obligated to show a police officer my ID, unless the officer detains me for either “reasonable suspicion” or has “probable cause.”
    3. With regards to PC626.9, I am assuming that I can lawfully open carry while dropping my children off and while picking them up from their pre-school.

    Thank you very much for your help!!!



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    I would like very much to see the reply Joe Cool

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    I predict that the DA will respond with a letter or a phone call indicating that they cannot offer you legal advice. I suspect you will have used postage without finding out anything new. Even if the DA could respond in the manner you hope they will, having a letter from the DA is not a 'get out of jail free' card.

    I would suggestthat if you are seeking legal advice, it would be to your benefit to consult an attorney that specializes in firearms law. To my knowledge, none of our California membership are attorneys and our posts are for information purposes only.

    It seems that you are looking for some reassurance that what you are doing is completely legal- However, such reassurances even if given to assuage the fear of consequences cannot wholly be reliable due to the nature of the risks open carry involves.

    If you want to get over the fear, I would suggest playing wingman to someone who is already open carrying. I'm sure there are members nearby that wouldnt mind meeting someone who can watch their back.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    You forgot participating in a labor dispute...

    I'll be amazed if they respond with anything other then some form of 'we can't give legal advice'

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    I may be assuming too much, but do you seriously want to opencarry when you pick up and drop off your kids at pre-school? Or are you just asking to ask.

    Why would you even consider such a thing ?

    Again, if I am assuming too much I offer my apologies up front.

  6. #6
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    greg36f wrote:
    I may be assuming too much, but do you seriously want to opencarry when you pick up and drop off your kids at pre-school? Or are you just asking to ask.

    Why would you even consider such a thing ?

    Again, if I am assuming too much I offer my apologies up front.
    Do you carry when you pick-up/drop-off kids at a pre-school? Your Dry Cleaning? The Shoe Store?

    Do you cancel your car insurance when you pick-up/drop-off kids at a pre-school?

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    mjones wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    I may be assuming too much, but do you seriously want to opencarry when you pick up and drop off your kids at pre-school? Or are you just asking to ask.

    Why would you even consider such a thing ?

    Again, if I am assuming too much I offer my apologies up front.
    Do you carry when you pick-up/drop-off kids at a pre-school? Your Dry Cleaning? The Shoe Store?

    Do you cancel your car insurance when you pick-up/drop-off kids at a pre-school?
    If you are unable to see the difference between walking into or up to your kids pre-school with a gun and going to the dry cleaners with a gun, then you probably should not be open carrying.

    Most of us do not drop our kids off at the curb and drive away from a pre-school.

    This is some of the silly"in your face stuff" that makes us all look like idiots and speedily forces needless legislation through.

    Why does it have to be "all or nothing" with some people. Your right (or anyone’s right) to open carry does not mean the common sense or courtesy is out the window.







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    greg36f wrote:
    I may be assuming too much, but do you seriously want to opencarry when you pick up and drop off your kids at pre-school? Or are you just asking to ask.

    Why would you even consider such a thing ?

    Again, if I am assuming too much I offer my apologies up front.
    Say what??? Why would I not want to protect myself and my kids anywhere. I seriously want to protect myself and them EVERYWHERE 24/7/365. Sheeeesh!
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Gundude wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    I may be assuming too much, but do you seriously want to opencarry when you pick up and drop off your kids at pre-school? Or are you just asking to ask.

    Why would you even consider such a thing ?

    Again, if I am assuming too much I offer my apologies up front.
    Say what??? Why would I not want to protect myself and my kids anywhere. I seriously want to protect myself and them EVERYWHERE 24/7/365. Sheeeesh!
    Life is full of compromises. Your right to protect your kids '"at that exact moment" when you are walking them into your pre-school needs to be balanced with the fact that your are going to freak a lot of people out (yep, I know I’m going to get hammered on that one) and your child’s safety.

    Leave the gun in the car and out of sight, don’t bring it into my kids school.

    A pre-school is just too sensitive of a place for you to go strolling into with a gun. I don't mind seeing you walk around most places (yes, I know that you do not care what I "mind")but, I don't want you walking into my kids pre-school with a gun.

    I think most people think the same way. That’s my kid and I have no idea who you are.





  10. #10
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    greg36f wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    I may be assuming too much, but do you seriously want to opencarry when you pick up and drop off your kids at pre-school? Or are you just asking to ask.

    Why would you even consider such a thing ?

    Again, if I am assuming too much I offer my apologies up front.
    Say what??? Why would I not want to protect myself and my kids anywhere. I seriously want to protect myself and them EVERYWHERE 24/7/365. Sheeeesh!
    Life is full of compromises. Your right to protect your kids '"at that exact moment" when you are walking them into your pre-school needs to be balanced with the fact that your are going to freak a lot of people out (yep, I know I’m going to get hammered on that one) and your child’s safety.

    Leave the gun in the car and out of sight, don’t bring it into my kids school.

    A pre-school is just too sensitive of a place for you to go strolling into with a gun. I don't mind seeing you walk around most places (yes, I know that you do not care what I "mind")but, I don't want you walking into my kids pre-school with a gun.

    I think most people think the same way. That’s my kid and I have no idea who you are.



    If someone "freaks out" about seeing a gun, they should seek professional help.Fear ofinanimate objects is treatable. support your local shrink!
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Gundude wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    I may be assuming too much, but do you seriously want to opencarry when you pick up and drop off your kids at pre-school? Or are you just asking to ask.

    Why would you even consider such a thing ?

    Again, if I am assuming too much I offer my apologies up front.
    Say what??? Why would I not want to protect myself and my kids anywhere. I seriously want to protect myself and them EVERYWHERE 24/7/365. Sheeeesh!
    Life is full of compromises. Your right to protect your kids '"at that exact moment" when you are walking them into your pre-school needs to be balanced with the fact that your are going to freak a lot of people out (yep, I know I’m going to get hammered on that one) and your child’s safety.

    Leave the gun in the car and out of sight, don’t bring it into my kids school.

    A pre-school is just too sensitive of a place for you to go strolling into with a gun. I don't mind seeing you walk around most places (yes, I know that you do not care what I "mind")but, I don't want you walking into my kids pre-school with a gun.

    I think most people think the same way. That’s my kid and I have no idea who you are.



    If someone "freaks out" about seeing a gun, they should seek professional help.Fear ofinanimate objects is treatable. support your local shrink!
    No one should "freak out" seeing a gun. But what "should be" is not always what we have to deal with. It would be great if people could just see guns for what they are. Tools that are not innately good or bad. We are not there YET.

    I am all for people’s right to open carry, but walking into my kids pre-school strapped is not cool.

    That's pushing too far too fast.

    There is room for compromise and reasonable consideration in this debate.



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    greg36f wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    I may be assuming too much, but do you seriously want to opencarry when you pick up and drop off your kids at pre-school? Or are you just asking to ask.

    Why would you even consider such a thing ?

    Again, if I am assuming too much I offer my apologies up front.
    Say what??? Why would I not want to protect myself and my kids anywhere. I seriously want to protect myself and them EVERYWHERE 24/7/365. Sheeeesh!
    Life is full of compromises. Your right to protect your kids '"at that exact moment" when you are walking them into your pre-school needs to be balanced with the fact that your are going to freak a lot of people out (yep, I know I’m going to get hammered on that one) and your child’s safety.

    Leave the gun in the car and out of sight, don’t bring it into my kids school.

    A pre-school is just too sensitive of a place for you to go strolling into with a gun. I don't mind seeing you walk around most places (yes, I know that you do not care what I "mind")but, I don't want you walking into my kids pre-school with a gun.

    I think most people think the same way. That’s my kid and I have no idea who you are.



    If someone "freaks out" about seeing a gun, they should seek professional help.Fear ofinanimate objects is treatable. support your local shrink!
    No one should "freak out" seeing a gun. But what "should be" is not always what we have to deal with. It would be great if people could just see guns for what they are. Tools that are not innately good or bad. We are not there YET.
    I am there now.
    I am all for people’s right to open carry, but walking into my kids pre-school strapped is not cool.
    I got over worrying about what is cool somewhere around my 18th birthday.
    That's pushing too far too fast.

    There is room for compromise and reasonable consideration in this debate.
    I can't disagree more.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Gundude wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    I may be assuming too much, but do you seriously want to opencarry when you pick up and drop off your kids at pre-school? Or are you just asking to ask.

    Why would you even consider such a thing ?

    Again, if I am assuming too much I offer my apologies up front.
    Say what??? Why would I not want to protect myself and my kids anywhere. I seriously want to protect myself and them EVERYWHERE 24/7/365. Sheeeesh!
    Life is full of compromises. Your right to protect your kids '"at that exact moment" when you are walking them into your pre-school needs to be balanced with the fact that your are going to freak a lot of people out (yep, I know I’m going to get hammered on that one) and your child’s safety.

    Leave the gun in the car and out of sight, don’t bring it into my kids school.

    A pre-school is just too sensitive of a place for you to go strolling into with a gun. I don't mind seeing you walk around most places (yes, I know that you do not care what I "mind")but, I don't want you walking into my kids pre-school with a gun.

    I think most people think the same way. That’s my kid and I have no idea who you are.



    If someone "freaks out" about seeing a gun, they should seek professional help.Fear ofinanimate objects is treatable. support your local shrink!
    No one should "freak out" seeing a gun. But what "should be" is not always what we have to deal with. It would be great if people could just see guns for what they are. Tools that are not innately good or bad. We are not there YET.
    I am there now.
    I am all for people’s right to open carry, but walking into my kids pre-school strapped is not cool.
    I got over worrying about what is cool somewhere around my 18th birthday.
    That's pushing too far too fast.

    There is room for compromise and reasonable consideration in this debate.
    I can't disagree more.
    I think that the highlighted above says it all........When we reach a point where compromise and reasonable consideration are off the table, we ALL lose.......Most of the time,the minority opinion loses. That's us right now.....Like it or not.

    I have said it before and Iwill keep saying it.

    Some people are here for the battle, some are here to win the war. The ones that are here for the battle may win a few, but they are going to cost us the war.

    The battle hungry peopleare simply going to go looking for a new battle while the others are stuck with what they created.

  14. #14
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    greg36f wrote:
    mjones wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    I may be assuming too much, but do you seriously want to opencarry when you pick up and drop off your kids at pre-school? Or are you just asking to ask.

    Why would you even consider such a thing ?

    Again, if I am assuming too much I offer my apologies up front.
    Do you carry when you pick-up/drop-off kids at a pre-school? Your Dry Cleaning? The Shoe Store?

    Do you cancel your car insurance when you pick-up/drop-off kids at a pre-school?
    If you are unable to see the difference between walking into or up to your kids pre-school with a gun and going to the dry cleaners with a gun, then you probably should not be open carrying.

    Most of us do not drop our kids off at the curb and drive away from a pre-school.

    This is some of the silly"in your face stuff" that makes us all look like idiots and speedily forces needless legislation through.

    Why does it have to be "all or nothing" with some people. Your right (or anyone’s right) to open carry does not mean the common sense or courtesy is out the window.
    Interesting that you didn't actually answer my questions...

    At anyrate, I do tend to agree with you to some degree, but everyone doesn't have the same options on the table. You or I can CCW when we drop off the kids at preschool. Most here either can't, or choose not to get license.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    We seem to have two topics going here. Protecting our family and compromise.

    Protecting my family....no compromise.

    I will comromise on who gets that parking spot or who is first in the checkout line.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs.

  16. #16
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    How do even some among us feel it is ok to restrict the law abiding the use of firearms? How will we ever get to the point where I can carry a fully automatic rifle any place I want. I do not believe in any regulation of firearms of any kind. This is the only stance that anyone who believes in the second amendment should take. We must fight to eliminate any and all laws regarding firearms. If you don't feel safe seeing me carry a gun then get yourself two bigger guns. When will people wake up. You feel good about criminals not having guns? Well they already do! You don't think I need an AK47 for my everyday carry gun. Well I do! And I should be able to carry it. This fake sense of security is killing people every day. Stop giving in to gun control.
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

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    First, I would like to apologize for not better clarifying my position. I have made the decision that I will open-carry, however prior to doing so, I would like to make sure that I understand the laws as best that I can, prior to doing so.

    Background: A violent sex offender moved into a house a few doors down from me. I will not go into any further details as it is an active investigation. I will say that he was convicted of heinous sexual crimes agains females and children.

    With that said, he is currenly residing within 400ft of my children's school. Is this legal? Jessica's law seems to indicate that itis not. Is it actively enforced? Why don't you look at Megan's law and see how many sexual offenders are living near schools.

    I take my children on walks around my neigborhood daily (in the evening when I get home from work). There is a loose pit bull (60+ lbs) that we have seen a few times in our neighborhood. It has no collar. Furthermore, another neighbor just bought a pitbull as a pet for their kids. In my spare time, I volunteer with Emergency Services and have seen a lot of different injuries. If you watch the news, there are regular pitbull attacks on children. Why haven't I called "Animal Control?" Why don't you try calling them sometime and see what their response time is?

    Let's look at the most recent attack in a Target store. This could happen to anyone. She was "only" stopped because someone had a gun. How many more people would have been hurt or killed if an off duty police officer hadn't intervened.

    Alright - the pre-school in question is walking distance from my house. It is also where I attend church. I've been following Theuses (I may have spelled that wrong) case with LE where he was convicted of carrying a gun in a school zone. I'm trying to understand "private property" and "public property." It seems that even "private property" is by law considered "public property" if the public has "access" to it. This means that even on my own property (my house), if there was a school within 1000ft of my house, I could not open-carry or have any firearms exposed outside of my house.

    My first and foremost objective is to protect myself and to make sure that I come home safely to my family. My second objective is to protect my family the best that I can. Unfortunately I live in LA County and I work in downtown LA (in areas that anyone would want to carry a gun for their own safety). LA County RARELY issues CCW's (judges, law enforcement, mayor, city council, and if your politically well connected) - so this is not an option. If I lived in Orange County, then yes, I would have a CCW. I know plenty of people that have tried - and all of them have been denied. Once denied, it is even more difficult to get one.

    I am not opposed to working with LE in my community and voluneering to a background inspection andinforming them of the training that I have had. Unfortunately, my conversations with the LA County Sheriff went something like - "If we see you open carrying a gun in this city, you will be spread eagle on the floor with multiple guns pointed at you until we deem you are not a threat. After which we will inspect your firearm , and if we determine you are carrying legally, then we will not be able to hold you and will let you go."

    The problem is that public schools and colleges are and have been training generations of people to think that "guns are evil and that they kill people." This truly isn't the case, and people NEED to see people carrying sidearms on a regular basis so that we can change people's perception so that they are not afraid of them. If only 1 person is carrying, then I suspect people will be intimidated, however if people were carrying on a regular basis, then they could see that guns indeed are safe.

    I really posted the letter to get feedback from you before I sent it. I do not want to go to jai or to be arrested, however I would like to know how to answer a police officer when I am stopped and to know when I am required to show ID. I think the proper answer is "are you detaining me, or am I free to go" when thy ask for my id. Also - if I am ever stopped while driving and they ask me if I have any weapons or guns in my vehicle, the correct answer is, "I am not carrying anything illegal in my car."

    I would like to know that when I am walking, and I come within 1000ft of a school, whether I can put my gun in a lockable container and put it in my backpack while I am passing through a prohibited area, or is simple "posession" of a firearm in a school zone illegal.

    If I volunteered to LE a full background check, etc...can I open carry while entering a police station, or is this a prohibited area. I don't mind them inspecting my firearm and checking the serial number and verifying that the gun is indeed mine.

    My intent is NOT to be at odds with LE, but to protect myself and my family.In "most" cases, the police are their to write reports after the crime has taken place. It is few and far between when a police officer actually witnesses a crime taking place and intercedes to stop it. There aresomecrypt gang members in my neighborhood (and no - moving is not an option). They knowme and I know them, and we stay away from each other. Has the police attempted to have them removed? I don't know, but I do know the policehave limited ability togo after and prosecuteknown gang members.

    Will I carry a gun while dropping my kids off at pre-school? Ihaven't decided. Is there a violent sex offender that I walk by everyday while dropping my children off at school, yes.

    Ihope that I have clarified my position and that I am not trying to create trouble wherenone exists.

    Any and all feedback is always appreciated...

  18. #18
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    desertfox wrote:
    My first and foremost objective is to protect myself and to make sure that I come home safely to my family. My second objective is to protect my family the best that I can. Unfortunately I live in LA County and I work in downtown LA (in areas that anyone would want to carry a gun for their own safety). LA County does NOT issue CCW's - so this is not an option. If I lived in Orange County, then yes, I would have a CCW.
    Have you tried and been denied? Did you appeal your denial?

    Don't listen to what 'everyone' says, there are indeed avenues for obtaining a CCW in LA County, but unfortunately, they don't even remotely make it easy...

    At minimum please change "NOT" to "rarely" so as not to spread FUD.

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    Corrected. LA County rarely issues CCW's.

    I'd love to hear the avenues you are referring to for obtaining a CCW in LA County for the average citizen?

  20. #20
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    desertfox wrote:
    Corrected. LA County rarely issues CCW's.

    I'd love to hear the avenues you are referring to for obtaining a CCW in LA County for the average citizen?
    I'll see if I can find the thread for you over on CalGuns.net

    Okay, I found it. Its specific to LAPD, but I seem to remember something nearly identical for LASD

    Get over to Calguns.net and read this thread:
    City of Los Angeles and LAPD Policy and Guidelines on CCW Issuance - Calguns.net

    The CalGuns foundation has found the LA City guidelines that make CCW issuance manadatory due to previous court settlements for specific good cause statements.



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    I wonder what qualifies for "significant amounts of valuable property." I am in sales (independent contractor) and carry anywhere from 5k-8k dollars of merchandise in my vehicle. I can carry as much as 10k.

    Do you think this would qualify?

    Thanks!



  22. #22
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    desertfox wrote:
    I wonder what qualifies for "significant amounts of valuable property." I am in sales (independent contractor) and carry anywhere from 5k-8k dollars of merchandise in my vehicle. I can carry as much as 10k.

    Do you think this would qualify?

    Thanks!

    Unfortunately, as much as I would like to help, I don't have a clue if that would be enough or not. There is another site; CalCCW.com which specializes in helping people apply for CCW in CA. They have people there which will review your Good Cause statement and give you feedback.

    As I understand it, they have a pretty high success rate. But from what I can tell, they have little to no experience with LAPD/LASD. So far as I know, I'm the only LA County CCW holder on that site. I've seen others come looking for advice, but I've never scene an 'i got it'followup either. Maybe I haven't been there long enough, I'm not sure.

    In the meantime hope for a succesful incorporation of the 2a in CA via Mcdonald v Chicago and that will give us hugeweight with the courts for the pending cases on hold here in CA.

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    I'm still looking for any feedback with regards to open carrying. Can you put yourpistol in a locked carry case and put it in your backpack when entering a school zone?Would that qualify as a violation?

    I hope I didn't kill the discussion....I'mlooking for any and all feedback.



    Thanks!

  24. #24
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    greg36f wrote:
    ...I am all for people’s right to open carry, but walking into my kids pre-school strapped is not cool.

    That's pushing too far too fast.

    There is room for compromise and reasonable consideration in this debate.

    Let's take a look at what the United States Constitution says on the matter... nope, didn't find "except for places where greg36f says are 'not cool' to carry in/at" anywhere in the Second Amendment.

    When it comes to my rights, I don't have to allow room to compromise because you have some unreasonable "discomfort" at the thought of me carrying a firearm at your kid's school.

    I might be able to agree with your line of logic that it will bring down the wrath of the legislature... but the above quoted you're expressing YOUR opinion about my right.

    I can only hope the courts have more respect for the rights of your fellow countrymen than you seem to.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Post imported post

    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    greg36f wrote:
    ...I am all for people’s right to open carry, but walking into my kids pre-school strapped is not cool.

    That's pushing too far too fast.

    There is room for compromise and reasonable consideration in this debate.

    Let's take a look at what the United States Constitution says on the matter... nope, didn't find "except for places where greg36f says are 'not cool' to carry in/at" anywhere in the Second Amendment.

    When it comes to my rights, I don't have to allow room to compromise because you have some unreasonable "discomfort" at the thought of me carrying a firearm at your kid's school.

    I might be able to agree with your line of logic that it will bring down the wrath of the legislature... but the above quoted you're expressing YOUR opinion about my right.

    I can only hope the courts have more respect for the rights of your fellow countrymen than you seem to.
    First, federal, state and local laws already put restrictions on what the constitution says we can do. It's not up to greg36f what is legal or not. It's up to the people. My opinion carries the weight of,,,well nothing.

    Second, when you say that you don't allow room to compromise, that to me and most other people is a losing argument. You don't tell your wife or significant other "it's my way or the highway" to many times and stay married, or for that matter take that attitude with your boss and stay married. Life is full of compromises. We all make them every day.

    Do you drive your kids around in the "safest" vehicle that you can afford or do you balance cost, style, gas mileage, ECT. Do your kids eat only the healthiest food or do you compromise and occasionally give those McDonalds or pizza?

    This to me is the "all or nothing"attitude that I often see here. To me it seems a bit immature and closed minded.

    If you think that open carry at Starbucks gets something like AB 1934 fast tracked, how about a "man with a gun call" at a pre school. That should be some great aerial shots from the news chopper as the police search the neighborhood and lock .

    As pointed out earlier in this topic, yes, I can CCW and often do. I have probably carried one or two times at my kids school, but I am very careful to completely conceal the weapon. I am sorrythat many people cannot get a CCW, but that does not change the fact that I feel that open carry on any school grounds is not a good idea. We all trust ourselves with a gun. I don't think that most of us trust EVERYONE else; especially around our kids.

    Again, this is just my opinion and it carries no weight.



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