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Clarifying CA Open Carry Law & Questions

mjones

mjones

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desertfox wrote:
Corrected. LA County rarely issues CCW's.

I'd love to hear the avenues you are referring to for obtaining a CCW in LA County for the average citizen?
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I'll see if I can find the thread for you over on CalGuns.net

Okay, I found it. Its specific to LAPD, but I seem to remember something nearly identical for LASD

Get over to Calguns.net and read this thread:
City of Los Angeles and LAPD Policy and Guidelines on CCW Issuance - Calguns.net

The CalGuns foundation has found the LA City guidelines that make CCW issuance manadatory due to previous court settlements for specific good cause statements.
 
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desertfox

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I wonder what qualifies for "significant amounts of valuable property." I am in sales (independent contractor) and carry anywhere from 5k-8k dollars of merchandise in my vehicle. I can carry as much as 10k.

Do you think this would qualify?

Thanks!
 
mjones

mjones

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desertfox wrote:
I wonder what qualifies for "significant amounts of valuable property." I am in sales (independent contractor) and carry anywhere from 5k-8k dollars of merchandise in my vehicle. I can carry as much as 10k.

Do you think this would qualify?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, as much as I would like to help, I don't have a clue if that would be enough or not. There is another site; CalCCW.com which specializes in helping people apply for CCW in CA. They have people there which will review your Good Cause statement and give you feedback.

As I understand it, they have a pretty high success rate. But from what I can tell, they have little to no experience with LAPD/LASD. So far as I know, I'm the only LA County CCW holder on that site. I've seen others come looking for advice, but I've never scene an 'i got it'followup either. Maybe I haven't been there long enough, I'm not sure.

In the meantime hope for a succesful incorporation of the 2a in CA via Mcdonald v Chicago and that will give us hugeweight with the courts for the pending cases on hold here in CA.
 
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desertfox

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I'm still looking for any feedback with regards to open carrying. Can you put yourpistol in a locked carry case and put it in your backpack when entering a school zone?Would that qualify as a violation?

I hope I didn't kill the discussion....I'mlooking for any and all feedback.



Thanks!
 
C

CA_Libertarian

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greg36f wrote:
...I am all for people’s right to open carry, but walking into my kids pre-school strapped is not cool.

That's pushing too far too fast.

There is room for compromise and reasonable consideration in this debate.
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Let's take a look at what the United States Constitution says on the matter... nope, didn't find "except for places where greg36f says are 'not cool' to carry in/at" anywhere in the Second Amendment.

When it comes to my rights, I don't have to allow room to compromise because you have some unreasonable "discomfort" at the thought of me carrying a firearm at your kid's school.

I might be able to agree with your line of logic that it will bring down the wrath of the legislature... but the above quoted you're expressing YOUR opinion about my right.

I can only hope the courts have more respect for the rights of your fellow countrymen than you seem to.
 
G

greg36f

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CA_Libertarian wrote:
greg36f wrote:
...I am all for people’s right to open carry, but walking into my kids pre-school strapped is not cool.

That's pushing too far too fast.

There is room for compromise and reasonable consideration in this debate.
Click to expand...
Let's take a look at what the United States Constitution says on the matter... nope, didn't find "except for places where greg36f says are 'not cool' to carry in/at" anywhere in the Second Amendment.

When it comes to my rights, I don't have to allow room to compromise because you have some unreasonable "discomfort" at the thought of me carrying a firearm at your kid's school.

I might be able to agree with your line of logic that it will bring down the wrath of the legislature... but the above quoted you're expressing YOUR opinion about my right.

I can only hope the courts have more respect for the rights of your fellow countrymen than you seem to.
Click to expand...
First, federal, state and local laws already put restrictions on what the constitution says we can do. It's not up to greg36f what is legal or not. It's up to the people. My opinion carries the weight of,,,well nothing.

Second, when you say that you don't allow room to compromise, that to me and most other people is a losing argument. You don't tell your wife or significant other "it's my way or the highway" to many times and stay married, or for that matter take that attitude with your boss and stay married. Life is full of compromises. We all make them every day.

Do you drive your kids around in the "safest" vehicle that you can afford or do you balance cost, style, gas mileage, ECT. Do your kids eat only the healthiest food or do you compromise and occasionally give those McDonalds or pizza?

This to me is the "all or nothing"attitude that I often see here. To me it seems a bit immature and closed minded.

If you think that open carry at Starbucks gets something like AB 1934 fast tracked, how about a "man with a gun call" at a pre school. That should be some great aerial shots from the news chopper as the police search the neighborhood and lock .

As pointed out earlier in this topic, yes, I can CCW and often do. I have probably carried one or two times at my kids school, but I am very careful to completely conceal the weapon. I am sorrythat many people cannot get a CCW, but that does not change the fact that I feel that open carry on any school grounds is not a good idea. We all trust ourselves with a gun. I don't think that most of us trust EVERYONE else; especially around our kids.

Again, this is just my opinion and it carries no weight.
 
D

desertfox

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Do you mind sharing with the group how you qualified for the ccw in LA county?
This may help others to see if they qualify.

I am married and have 2 young kids. There are certain things that I will make no compromise on. My values, ethics, morality, religion, etc...

I looked at the web site you gave that helps people applying for a ccw. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be used much, and they oofer no help or informarion to people applying in LA county.
 
mjones

mjones

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desertfox wrote:
Do you mind sharing with the group how you qualified for the ccw in LA county?
This may help others to see if they qualify.

I am married and have 2 young kids. There are certain things that I will make no compromise on. My values, ethics, morality, religion, etc...

I looked at the web site you gave that helps people applying for a ccw. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be used much, and they oofer no help or informarion to people applying in LA county.
Click to expand...

I was initially denied, but I succeeded on appeal.

I will not share my 'good cause' publically as that has been known to cause issue with people submitting boiler-plate applications. My GC was about 2 pages long - part of it was with regard to my being a former LEO.

I was never given any feedback as to why I was approved. I have never had any difficulty renewing.
 
G

greg36f

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desertfox wrote:
Do you mind sharing with the group how you qualified for the ccw in LA county?
This may help others to see if they qualify.

I am married and have 2 young kids. There are certain things that I will make no compromise on. My values, ethics, morality, religion, etc...

I looked at the web site you gave that helps people applying for a ccw. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be used much, and they oofer no help or informarion to people applying in LA county.
Click to expand...
If you are asking this question of me, thenI am sorry but I cannot help you in LA County. I am in Northern California.

I read earlier about why you are concerned andI would also feel as you do given the circumstances.

If what you said about your neighbor is true, then he is either on parole or probation and he should have a case officer. Contact one of those people and determine his status. The squeaky wheel gets oiled. Do not be put off or give up. Also this guy should be a 290 Reg. at his local police dept. Call your local dept. and ask for the sex crimes division to find out who is responsible for keeping track of the 290's in your area and talk to that guy. Check out 290 PC on line to get the details about what he can and cannot do.

As to the items that you will make no compromise, I agree 1000%. Those items however are ones that I consider internal choices that you have full control over. I only speak of compromise where the choices are primarily external and affect other people with different opinions and values.

I will never give up any of my rights, but some things (as any married man or working man knows) require some sort of compromise so that we as a society can live in some semblance of peace and harmony. Scr%w you, we are gonna do it my way rarely works.

I would also look at the TASER C2. It is not a cure all or a replacement for a gun, but it is something that is very effective and your wife can carry it with her wherever she wants (there are some minor exceptions). Check it out on line..

Good luck and do what you can to keep this neighbor in check.
 
C

CA_Libertarian

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greg36f wrote:
First, federal, state and local laws already put restrictions on what the constitution says we can do. It's not up to greg36f what is legal or not. It's up to the people. My opinion carries the weight of,,,well nothing.

Second, when you say that you don't allow room to compromise, that to me and most other people is a losing argument. You don't tell your wife or significant other "it's my way or the highway" to many times and stay married, or for that matter take that attitude with your boss and stay married. Life is full of compromises. We all make them every day.

Do you drive your kids around in the "safest" vehicle that you can afford or do you balance cost, style, gas mileage, ECT. Do your kids eat only the healthiest food or do you compromise and occasionally give those McDonalds or pizza?

This to me is the "all or nothing"attitude that I often see here. To me it seems a bit immature and closed minded.

If you think that open carry at Starbucks gets something like AB 1934 fast tracked, how about a "man with a gun call" at a pre school. That should be some great aerial shots from the news chopper as the police search the neighborhood and lock .

As pointed out earlier in this topic, yes, I can CCW and often do. I have probably carried one or two times at my kids school, but I am very careful to completely conceal the weapon. I am sorrythat many people cannot get a CCW, but that does not change the fact that I feel that open carry on any school grounds is not a good idea. We all trust ourselves with a gun. I don't think that most of us trust EVERYONE else; especially around our kids.

Again, this is just my opinion and it carries no weight.
Click to expand...
I agree there is room to compromise on most issues. Rights, however, is one area I think there should be very little, or NO compromise.

For example, courtrooms. I personally think these should be no exception to the 2nd Amendment. However, I could see the problem with the defendant having a loaded firearm on his person when the jury hands over the verdict. So, even though we're "innocent until proven guilty," I think it's reasonable to deny someone their right to self defense while in police custody when convincted of a crime. (The rest of the people in the courtroom should not be deprived of there rights, though.)

That's literally the only example of a "reasonable" infringement I can think of.

I think we'll probably just have to disagree on where the "reasonable" line is drawn. But I don't take kindly when my rights are stripped from me for other people's mental comfort. "For the children" is the oldest Appeal to Emotion Fallacy ever used. I see right through it.
 
M

merle

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CA_Libertarian wrote:
I think it's reasonable to deny someone their right to self defense while in police custody when convincted of a crime. (The rest of the people in the courtroom should not be deprived of there rights, though.)
Click to expand...
If the police can guarantee the safety of the individual, and are liable for it, sure.

However, we know there are no guarantees in life and prisons/jails are dangerous places. Because of this, there is little reason to deny the right of the individual to defend themselves.

The police have no obligation to protect citizens. The removing of a fundamental right of an innocent person should not occur.
 
C

CA_Libertarian

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merle wrote:
CA_Libertarian wrote:
I think it's reasonable to deny someone their right to self defense while in police custody when convincted of a crime. (The rest of the people in the courtroom should not be deprived of there rights, though.)
Click to expand...
If the police can guarantee the safety of the individual, and are liable for it, sure.

However, we know there are no guarantees in life and prisons/jails are dangerous places. Because of this, there is little reason to deny the right of the individual to defend themselves.

The police have no obligation to protect citizens. The removing of a fundamental right of an innocent person should not occur.
Click to expand...
Do you think it's a better idea to have everybody in jail armed as they please? I think my solution is the lesser of several bad options. I'm open to be convinced otherwise.

What is the better/ideal solution to the above dilemma?
 
M

merle

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CA_Libertarian wrote:
merle wrote:
Click to expand...
CA_Libertarian wrote:
I think it's reasonable to deny someone their right to self defense while in police custody when convincted of a crime. (The rest of the people in the courtroom should not be deprived of there rights, though.)
Click to expand...
If the police can guarantee the safety of the individual, and are liable for it, sure.

However, we know there are no guarantees in life and prisons/jails are dangerous places. Because of this, there is little reason to deny the right of the individual to defend themselves.

The police have no obligation to protect citizens. The removing of a fundamental right of an innocent person should not occur.
Click to expand...
Do you think it's a better idea to have everybody in jail armed as they please? I think my solution is the lesser of several bad options. I'm open to be convinced otherwise.

What is the better/ideal solution to the above dilemma?
Click to expand...

The problem as I see it is that people are already armed. This is both truth within and outside of the confines of a controlled environment. An inmate stabbed a judge during a court proceeding with officers present. Weapons can be made out of nearly anything.

Some people want to serve out their time, peacefully. While others, I don't know how to put it otherwise, but simply want to harm everyone around them.

If you give people the means to defend themselves, I think the violent portion will be reduced though simple attrition.

If I went to jail/prison, I would like to have the means to protect myself from violence and do my time without being "molested". If I had the means, would I defend myself? Especially since I knewothers had the means to do me harm? I don't know, but I would like the choice.

I think that the jails/prisons are a microcosm of a much more violent society, and if there is less incentive to being armed in an extremely violent environment, why should one be armed in one less violent?
 
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