MWAG call open carry in a bar with CPL

SpringerXDacp · May 12, 2010

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"Ironically, Michigan does have a Registration (of sorts), by requireing a Pistol to be Inspected under applicableState Law. Michigan Law Section 232 and 228 requires these actions, and failure to do so is a Misdemeanor punishable by 90 days in Jail and a $100 fine."

Section 228 (750.228, Safety Inspection) was repealed, effective January 7, 2009.

hopnpop · May 12, 2010

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aadvark wrote:

Ironically, Michigan does have a Registration (of sorts), by requireing a Pistol to be Inspected under applicableState Law. Michigan Law Section 232 and 228 requires these actions, and failure to do so is a Misdemeanor punishable by 90 days in Jail and a $100 fine.

Great post - and I only have one conflict with it. The above quote of pistol "registration" is no longer valid. Michigan did away with "safety inspections/registrations", I think wasin '09.

hopnpop · May 12, 2010

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Ah, SpringerXD, ya barely beat me to it! :lol:

stainless1911 · May 12, 2010

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aadvark wrote:

Ironically, Michigan does have a Registration (of sorts), by requireing a Pistol to be Inspected under applicableState Law. Michigan Law Section 232 and 228 requires these actions, and failure to do so is a Misdemeanor punishable by 90 days in Jail and a $100 fine.

Vehicle Carry, atleast to me, is complicated..., consult with Michigan Carry or an Trusted Attorney. The Michigan State Police can not advise one on these matters.

2points here should be adressed. All else is correct.

The safety inspection was tossed out last year, it is no longer a requirement. *cite needed*

Vehicle carry is really quite simple. If you have a CPL you are covered , and if you dont have a CPL dont do it its a felony as seen in 750.231a.

This includes any vehicle, wether the pistol is concealed or visible, it is considered to be concealed by law. If you are in or on any vehicle. Including a bycicle, and quite possibly roller skates.

You can be charged with a DUI on a bycycle, therefore you can be charged with a CCW, if you dont have a CPL.

mikestilly · May 12, 2010

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stainless1911 wrote:

aadvark wrote:

snip
"You can be charged with a DUI on a bycycle, therefore you can be charged with a CCW, if you dont have a CPL"

The above quote is an assumption not based on facts. We all know this is a grey area and in my opinion the law specifically states "put firearm in to" which cannot be done on a bicycle. Unless you can cite the law proving me wrong do not assume that what is state above is a fact.

SpringerXDacp · May 12, 2010

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stainless1911 wrote:

aadvark wrote:

Ironically, Michigan does have a Registration (of sorts), by requireing a Pistol to be Inspected under applicableState Law. Michigan Law Section 232 and 228 requires these actions, and failure to do so is a Misdemeanor punishable by 90 days in Jail and a $100 fine.

Vehicle Carry, atleast to me, is complicated..., consult with Michigan Carry or an Trusted Attorney. The Michigan State Police can not advise one on these matters.

Click to expand...

2points here should be adressed. All else is correct.

The safety inspection was tossed out last year, it is no longer a requirement. *cite needed* Provided above, twice.

Vehicle carry is really quite simple. If you have a CPL you are covered , and if you dont have a CPL dont do it its a felony as seen in 750.231a. Actually, I think he's referring to 231a: Is it or is it not all-inclusive?

This includes any vehicle, wether the pistol is concealed or visible, it is considered to be concealed by law. If you are in or on any vehicle. Including a bycicle, and quite possibly roller skates.

You can be charged with a DUI on a bycycle, therefore you can be charged with a CCW, if you dont have a CPL.

Can you pleaseprovide a cite for this that will confirm one way or the other? There are many here who would like to know.

stainless1911 · May 12, 2010

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

The safety inspection was tossed out last year, it is no longer a requirement. *cite needed* Provided above, twice.]

I know that, you guys beat me to it. stainless1911

Vehicle carry is really quite simple. If you have a CPL you are covered , and if you dont have a CPL dont do it its a felony as seen in 750.231a. Actually, I think he's referring to 231a: Is it or is it not all-inclusive?

A test case is likely to determine this, yet it says right in the law that this list "includes" the following. stainless1911

This includes any vehicle, wether the pistol is concealed or visible, it is considered to be concealed by law. If you are in or on any vehicle. Including a bycicle, and quite possibly roller skates.

You can be charged with a DUI on a bycycle, therefore you can be charged with a CCW, if you dont have a CPL.

Can you pleaseprovide a cite for this that will confirm one way or the other? There are many here who would like to know.

I said charged, not convicted. It is highly probable that you could be charged with this. Convicted however, remains to be seen. In a conversation I had recently with an OCSD, he indicated to me that it was possible to be charged with it, and that he would leave it up to the prosecutors to decide. So, yes, if this officer (and I suspect many others) found an OCer riding their bike without a CPL, they would be charged with that felony CCW.
stainless1911

SpringerXDacp · May 12, 2010

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:lol: OK, which story are you going to stick with?

You said:

"Vehicle carry is really quite simple. If you have a CPL you are covered , and if you dont have a CPL dont do it its a felony as seen in 750.231a.

This includes any vehicle, wether the pistol is concealed or visible, it is considered to be concealed by law. If you are in or on any vehicle. Including a bycicle, and quite possibly roller skates."

Then you said:

"You can be charged with a DUI on a bycycle, therefore you can be charged with a CCW, if you dont have a CPL."

While it's true that in cases of DUI, Michigan considers a bicycle a vehicle, same as a snowmobile, motorcycle, riding lawnmowers, golfcart, motorized boats, mopeds, etc, in which case you can be charged and most likely convicted.

I was asking for a cite to the law(s) which constitutes a CCW violation/charge on a bicycle in Michigan.

"Can you pleaseprovide a cite for this that will confirm one way or the other?"

stainless1911 · May 12, 2010

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I dont see where I contradicted myself. If I did, then I apologise.

stainless1911 · May 12, 2010

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

I was asking for a cite to the law(s) which constitutes a CCW violation/charge on a bicycle in Michigan.

"Can you pleaseprovide a cite for this that will confirm one way or the other?"

I dont know the cite that allows the charge of DUI on a bycicle. Or the one that defines a bycicle as a vehicle. When an officer says that he would let the prosecutor decide, it means that if I had been riding a bike right then, I would have been defending myself in court against a CCW charge of carrying concealed in a vehicle.

hopnpop · May 13, 2010

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Alright, I know that neither my thoughts/feelings nor logic have any relevence in a court of law, but isn't it just rediculous that one can be charged with either CCW or DUI while on a effing bicycle??? Just strikes me as absurd. I can understand equating anything motorized as being a vehicle but a friggin bicycle? C'mon... Again, not that it matters, but I don't think they should be able to make a CCW charge if OCing on a bicycle. If they consider bikes and even possible skates vehicles, then everything goes... skateboards, strollers, grocery carts, even those sneakers with the skate wheels built-in... Friggin absurd. :banghead:

craigm · May 13, 2010

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Can someone cite the law that someone riding a bicycle under the influence was charged with? I'd be interested in seeing that.

257.79 “Vehicle” defined.

[align=left]Sec. 79. “Vehicle” means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices exclusively moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of 1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.[/align]

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zdo3luny5tnls045hmiqyovw))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-chap257.pdf

Now, I have known people to be charged with OWI on a lawnmower or farm tractor, but not a bicycle.

malignity · May 13, 2010

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aadvark wrote:

Section 234(d)(1) of Michigan Law disallows Pistols into: 1. Banks, 2. Churches, 3. Courts, 4. Theaters, 5. Sports Arenas, 6. Day Care Centers,7. Hospitals, and 8. Bars.

Wait, what?

This is only Federal banks, correct? Cause if it ain't, then I've been a very bad man. That certainly isn't on my CPL as a PFZ.

autosurgeon · May 13, 2010

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malignity wrote:

aadvark wrote:

Section 234(d)(1) of Michigan Law disallows Pistols into: 1. Banks, 2. Churches, 3. Courts, 4. Theaters, 5. Sports Arenas, 6. Day Care Centers,7. Hospitals, and 8. Bars.

Click to expand...

Wait, what?

This is only Federal banks, correct? Cause if it ain't, then I've been a very bad man. That certainly isn't on my CPL as a PFZ.

Again people are confusing the CPL law with the law that regulates NON CPL holders. :banghead:

malignity · May 13, 2010

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Sorry man. I do that all the time, which is why I CC most of the time. It's hard enough memorizing the laws for one, let alone both sometimes. You gotta admit, it gets confusing at times, and even though I frequent the site daily, I'm still learning too. Sorry for failing the test. I'm tired, it's nearly 11am, and after a long hard night working at the local psych ward, I'm about ready for bed.

I know, I know, I should know better by now. :banghead:

stainless1911 · May 13, 2010

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happens to me too man, dont feel bad. After trying to figure our these convoluded sensles infringements, sometimes I get confused too.

Taurus850CIA · May 13, 2010

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stainless1911 wrote:

happens to me too man, dont feel bad. After trying to figure our these convoluded sensles infringements, sometimes I get confused too.

I think you just confused me.

SpringerXDacp · May 13, 2010

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Taurus850CIA wrote:

stainless1911 wrote:

happens to me too man, dont feel bad. After trying to figure our these convoluded sensles infringements, sometimes I get confused too.

Click to expand...

I think you just confused me.

:lol:

1) "After trying to figure out these convoluted, senseless infringements..."

2) "After trying to figure out these difficult to comprehend infringements..."

stainless1911 · May 13, 2010

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3000+ posts.

:monkey

Pouget · May 14, 2010

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Everyone is saying while in a bar you do not need to show CPL to an officer if confronted. However, the only way to OC in a bar, is with a CPL. So I thought when I read a story earlier about the guy getting hassled in the hospital, he said you have to show CPL or else it would be illegal.

If a cop is aware of OC in a bar, how is he supposed to know you are doing it legally if he has neither your name or CPL?

MWAG call open carry in a bar with CPL

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