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Thread: Courant poll on campus carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Another terrible poll from the Courant. Really, who writes this stuff?

    http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/todaysbuzz/tuesday/
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    I cant even vote because it isn't correct there is no concealed carry law in CT

  3. #3
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Vote no anyway please. We can work on the concealed wording, but students need the same rights we have everywhere else.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

  4. #4
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Just sent the following to the 'Editorial Page Editor' at the Courant:

    Rich B
    Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:34 AM
    To: lumsden@courant.com
    Ms. Lumsden,
    Could you please be of assistance in directing me to the person who is responsible for the 'Today's buzz polls'?
    Specifically in reference to today's poll:
    http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/todaysbuzz/tuesday/

    This poll uses the following language:

    No. Colleges should let students and faculty carry concealed weapons as deterrents.

    No. Connecticut's concealed-carry law should apply to campuses too.


    This language is erroneous and potentially dangerous. There is no law mandating concealed carry in the state of Connecticut. Furthermore, there is no law that disallows carrying of firearms on college campuses.

    Please assist me in getting to the bottom of this issue and educating the necessary people.

    Thank you,
    Rich B
    Lumsden, Carolyn <CLumsden@courant.com> Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:40 AM
    To: Rich B
    Mr. B, I’m responsible for the Buzz. A quick look at our library backs you up – there’s no law on concealed carry, although there appears to be a ban on concealed carry on campus (a bit confusing, I’ll try to figure it out). Here’s what we’ve reported: “ Although state law permits eligible people 21 and older to carry handguns, student conduct codes at both universities prohibit possession of firearms on campus.”



    In any case, I’ll get the Buzz language clarified as soon as possible.

    From: Rich B
    Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:34 AM
    To: Lumsden, Carolyn
    Subject: Today's buzz poll

    Carolyn,
    Thank you for your prompt response.
    There is absolutely no state law that prohibits any form of carry on a college campus. The only reason this is an issue at all in the state of Connecticut is that colleges have their own policies against the carry of firearms on campus. This does not involve the law at all. This is a student policy that is enforced at the university level.

    I notice you also don't specify in your text that you are referring to people who have permits and are of the legal age to obtain a permit to carry (21 and over). This is important since plenty of your readers do not seem to understand (read the comments to the poll) that this would not apply to the vast majority of 'typical college kids'. This would mostly apply to faculty and grad students. It might help if you note that other states (Utah being one of the best known) allow this and have had no issues.

    As an aside. I must ask why you choose to break the poll into 4 answers. This seems to defy any statistical scrutiny.

    Not wanting to only present problems, but instead to assist with a solution, the poll would do best like this:

    Should colleges allow firearms on campuses by permitted (21 and over) owners?
    Yes.
    No.

    Please consider my points and consider overhauling the poll the way I have recommended. We could get far better results like this, and I don't feel anyone could complain about bias like they are with your current poll.

    In the future, please do not hesitate to contact me for information as I am willing to assist to make sure the correct information is put out to the public. If I don't know the answers, I know plenty of people who will know the answer and we will get you a timely and well rationalized and justified response.

    For more information, consider visiting: http://ccdl.us
    The CCDL is a great group of people in Connecticut who really know the laws and are working very hard to educate the public and educate officials. The website is full of great information on this topic and more is being added all the time.

    Thank you for your attention,
    Rich B

    Thank you for your thoughtful note. We have changed the final question to this: “Connecticut’s open-carry law allowing eligible adults 21 and over to carry weapons should apply to campuses too.” We very rarely have only yes-and-no answers. (I can’t remember the last time we did that.) We try to give a range of answers to give people choices. Are you a student? If so, you might want to consider getting in touch with Peter Pach, our oped editor, to do an oped on this. He’s always looking for voices under 30 for his Fresh Talk feature. But there are some rules – under 650 words, focused tightly on one issue, very localized (about Connecticut). He’s at ppach@courant.com and 860-241-6595. Tell him I sent you.

    Carolyn
    Carolyn,
    I saw your changes, but things actually got worse, not better.

    Should campuses be gun-free zones?
    Yes. Guns would create more violence, not less, on campuses.
    No. Colleges should let students and faculty carry concealed weapons as deterrents.
    Yes. Colleges are sanctuaries of learning, not gun clubs.
    No. Connecticut s open-carry law allowing eligible adults 21 and over to carry weapons should apply to campuses too.

    Besides the typo, you seem to not understand the topic at hand. Hopefully I can assist.
    In Connecticut, we have no 'open carry law'. We have no 'concealed carry law'. We only have a carry permit. We choose how we want to carry, and how we carry is irrelevant to the topic of whether we have the right to protect ourselves wherever we go.

    Since you insist on this poll format, I recommend the following changes:

    Should campuses continue to have policies that don't allow permitted individuals (21 and over) to carry firearms?
    Yes. Guns would create more violence, not less, on campuses.
    No. Colleges should let students and faculty carry firearms in accordance to state law.
    Yes. Colleges are sanctuaries of learning, not gun clubs.
    No. College students with a permit to carry do not lose their right to protect themselves by crossing onto a college campus.

    Please consider this improved wording. Your current wording is once again incorrect and is not helpful to either side of this issue and shows a certain bias and ignorance to the topic at hand. I feel my wording will change that.

    Thank you,
    Rich B
    OK, I asked the web staff to make the following changes:

    Please change the Buzz question under Vote to the following:

    Should campuses continue to prohibit adults 21 and over with gun permits from carrying firearms?

    Please change the second answer to this:

    No. Colleges should let students and faculty carry firearms in accordance with state law.

    And please change the final answer to this:

    · No. Students with a permit to carry do not lose their right to protect themselves by crossing onto a college campus.
    Carolyn,
    That sounds much better. The only (minor) correction I could offer is that it is not a 'gun permit' it is a 'carry permit' or a 'permit to carry a firearm'. What you have is fine though. You may just want to take this as advice for the future.

    Thank you for your assistance on this and your prompt attention. I look forward to the update.

    -Rich B
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

  5. #5
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    And it has been changed. It is not perfect, but it is a helluva lot better than it was.

    I have to say, Carolyn was a lot more helpful than I expected her or the Courant to be.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

  6. #6
    Regular Member Ctclassic's Avatar
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    Thanks Rich foryour patience while dealing with her "lack of knowledge". Well done !

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