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Thread: legal Help needed

  1. #1
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    I was pulled over because the police (said) they got a 911 call about a man carrying a gun...I was riding my Motorcycle doing nothing wrong... they made the stop came up behind me and took my Weapon!

    I said I do not consent and I was asked for my ID and permit they ran the #'s on the Wep. told me I can't open carry in Indiana (I can) and to cover it up from now on to help them out. There's alot more but this will get the ball rolling.

    OH btw I have this ALL on tape!!! I want to take this farther and need a lawyer that knows Alot about IN. gun laws and Constitutional law!

    So far everything I've read says they Violated my rights in a big way....?

    Thank youfor the help!

  2. #2
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    Crickets.........

  3. #3
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    BBR-14 wrote:
    Crickets.........


    Everyone seems quite busy doing something else.

  4. #4
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    I guess so.

  5. #5
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    You might check the NRA website. I vaguely recall they keep a list of pro-2A lawyers.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
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    I am glad that you have the encounter all on tape. You will likely be able to have the agency that the officers were with conduct training to get them all better informed. This is a very good thing. Sorry that I don't have a lawyer in Indiana to call on right now, but there must be one out there. Keep on looking. Thanks for the good work. I don't think you should publish a transcript until you talk to a lawyer. As they only let you go, there is probably not any money in this.

  7. #7
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    Thanks guys..... anyone else have any more ideas or coments?

  8. #8
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    http://www.lawyers.com/

    I'd search under Civil Rights or Constitutional Law or something.

  9. #9
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    Tried that not much luck.....

  10. #10
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    I am not a lawyer, but I do believe that by running the serial number of your gun they violated your 4th amendment rights.

    If they ran the serial #of your gun after you established that you were doing nothing illegal due to the fact that you have a permit issued by the state of Indiana.

    If you search 4th amendment case law you may find more.

    The cut and paste below is from http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/c...h_seizure.html

    I don't know if it is any help but good luck.

    When Does the Fourth Amendment Apply?

    The legal standards derived from the Fourth Amendment provide constitutional protection to individuals in the following situations, among others:

    • An individual is stopped for police questioning while walking down the street.



    • An individual is pulled over for a minor traffic infraction, and the police officer searches the vehicle's trunk.



    • An individual is arrested.



    • Police officers enter an individual's house to place him or her under arrest.



    • Police officers enter an individual's apartment to search for evidence of crime.



    • Police officers enter a corporation's place of business to search for evidence of crime.



    • Police officers confiscate an individual's vehicle or personal property and place it under police control.
    If Obama is the answer; how stupid was the question?

  11. #11
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    Norman L. Burggraf, Jr.
    Attorney at Law
    Butler Power Burggraf, P.C.
    221 W. Lexington Ave.
    Elkhart, IN 46516
    Ph: (574) 522-0724
    Fax: (574) 522-5856
    Internet email address: nlburggraf@maplenet.net
    Areas of Practice: Family Law and Domestic Relations; Real Estate and Zoning; Estate Planning and Probate; Criminal Defense; Contract; General Civil Litigation; Criminal and Civil Appeals.
    Bar admissions: State of Indiana; Federal District Courts for the Northern and Southern Districts of Indiana.
    RKBA organizational memberships: NRA Life Member since 1990; Elkhart Rifle and Pistol Club.

  12. #12
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    BBR-14,

    You were well within your Rights to do what you did with your Firearm.

    Indiana does have a Stop and Identify Statute, IC 34-28-5-3.5, however; this only applies whenever a Law Enforcement Officer has good faith that you committed a Infraciton or Ordinance Violation.

    The text of that Statute is:

    IC 34-28-5-3.5
    Refusal to identify self
    Sec. 3.5. A person who knowingly or intentionally refuses to provide either the person's:
    (1) name, address, and date of birth; or
    (2) driver's license, if in the person's possession;
    to a law enforcement officer who has stopped the person for an infraction or ordinance violation commits a Class C misdemeanor.
    As added by P.L.1-1998, SEC.24.
    ***This bolded section is important! Ordinace Violations for Firearms cannot happen against Licensed Indianan Citizens for merely Carrying a Handgun. Therefore, the stop was unjust! I doubt the Local Unit was in a State of Emergency, and even if it was, you were not trying to Sale the same, nor were you on their property!***

    However, as you and I both well know, Indiana Law Preempts Firearm-related matter to The State of Indiana, except as provided under applicable Indiana Law.

    IC 35-47-11
    Chapter 11. Local Regulation of Firearms


    IC 35-47-11-1
    Applicability of chapter
    Sec. 1. (a) Section 2 of this chapter applies to all units (as defined in IC36-1-2-23). All other sections of this chapter apply to all units other than townships.
    (b) This chapter applies only if a statute expressly grants a legislative body the authority to adopt an emergency ordinance under this chapter.
    (c) This chapter does not affect the validity of an ordinance adopted before, and in effect on, January 1, 1994.
    As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.13.

    IC 35-47-11-2
    Regulation of firearms by units other than townships
    Sec. 2. Notwithstanding IC36-1-3, a unit may not regulate in any manner the ownership, possession, sale, transfer, or transportation of firearms (as defined in IC35-47-1-5) or ammunition except as follows:
    (1) This chapter does not apply to land, buildings, or other real property owned or administered by a unit, except highways (as defined in IC8-23-1-23) or public highways (as defined in IC8-2.1-17-14).
    (2) Notwithstanding the limitation in this section, a unit may use the unit's planning and zoning powers under IC36-7-4 to prohibit the sale of firearms within two hundred (200) feet of a school by a person having a business that did not sell firearms within two hundred (200) feet of a school before April 1, 1994.
    (3) Notwithstanding the limitation in this section, a legislative body of a unit other than a township may adopt an emergency ordinance or a unit other than a township may take other action allowed under section 6 of this chapter to regulate the sale of firearms anywhere within the unit for a period of not more than seventy-two (72) hours after the regulatory action takes effect.
    As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.13.

    IC 35-47-11-3
    Emergency ordinances; adoption; conditions warranting
    Sec. 3. The legislative body of a unit may adopt an emergency ordinance under this chapter if:
    (1) a disaster (as defined in IC10-14-3-1) has occurred or is likely to occur in the unit; and
    (2) a local disaster emergency has been declared in the unit under IC10-14-3-29.
    As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.13. Amended by P.L.2-2003, SEC.98.

    IC 35-47-11-4
    Emergency ordinances; procedures for adoption
    Sec. 4. Notwithstanding any other law, if the conditions described under section 3 of this chapter are present within a unit, the legislative body of the unit may adopt an emergency ordinance under this chapter:
    (1) without complying with the public notice and public meeting provisions of:
    (A) IC5-14-1.5; or
    (B) any other statute;
    (2) on the same day that the ordinance is presented to the legislative body; and
    (3) by a majority vote of the members of the legislative body.
    As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.13.


    IC 35-47-11-5
    Emergency ordinances; effective date; expiration
    Sec. 5. An emergency ordinance adopted under section 4 of this chapter:
    (1) takes effect on the date and at the time of the adoption of the ordinance; and
    (2) expires the earlier of:
    (A) seventy-two (72) hours after the time of the adoption of the ordinance; or
    (B) a time specified in the emergency ordinance.
    As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.13.

    IC 35-47-11-6
    Restrictions on sale of firearms during emergency; declaration by executive or presiding officer
    Sec. 6. If:
    (1) the conditions described under section 3 of this chapter are present within a unit;
    (2) an unsuccessful attempt is made to convene the legislative body for the purpose of adopting an emergency ordinance under this chapter; and
    (3) in the case of a municipality, an unsuccessful attempt is made to convene the works board to act under this chapter as if the works board were the legislative body; the executive of a municipality or the presiding officer of a county executive may declare a restriction on the sale of firearms anywhere within the unit for a period of not more than seventy-two (72) hours after the restriction is declared. A declaration under this section has the same effect as an ordinance adopted under section 4 of this chapter and becomes effective and expires as provided in section 5 of this chapter.
    As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.13.

    Although the Local Emergency Powers Law may be confusing, basically; Local Units, in addtion to Townships, may not Regulate Firearms, except: 1. On their own Property, 2. The Sale of the same, within 200 yards of a School, or 3. During a State of Emergency for the purposes of Saleing the same, as stated above, but for not more than 72 hours.

    In Indiana, as you probably know, you need a License to Carry a Handgun on your Body or on or in a Vehicle, per IC 35-47-2-1. Since your Vehicle is your Property, and you were not trying to Sale the same, and you had a License under IC 35-47-2-3, then, you should be fine.

    Local Ordinaces, if any, that the Officer acted under are Preempted per IC 35-47-11, and therefore, even if the guise of His Stop and ID against you was pursuant to a Local Ordinance, although He believed the same Lawful, it in fact, was not Lawful, and thus, invalides IC 34-28-5-3.5 against you, as noted in bolded section of that Indiana Code above.

    However, although you and I both know you were within your Rights to act as you did, it would be best to bring the matter to the attention of a Trusted Attorney.




  13. #13
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    Thanks guys for all the help!

  14. #14
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    What was the locality that you were stopped in/by? This sounds very similar to the tactics that the Police in Clarksville, IN use.

  15. #15
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    Been trying to call MR. Burggraf for a week I hope to get a call Soon......?

    SouthernIndy wrote:
    Norman L. Burggraf, Jr.
    Attorney at Law
    Butler Power Burggraf, P.C.
    221 W. Lexington Ave.
    Elkhart, IN 46516
    Ph: (574) 522-0724
    Fax: (574) 522-5856
    Internet email address: nlburggraf@maplenet.net
    Areas of Practice: Family Law and Domestic Relations; Real Estate and Zoning; Estate Planning and Probate; Criminal Defense; Contract; General Civil Litigation; Criminal and Civil Appeals.
    Bar admissions: State of Indiana; Federal District Courts for the Northern and Southern Districts of Indiana.
    RKBA organizational memberships: NRA Life Member since 1990; Elkhart Rifle and Pistol Club.

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