A store in Bullhead City, AZ and (Henderson, NV) that doesn't like Guns!

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I was out in Bullhead City, AZ today to do a little shopping... I stopped in at a store I have been to many times and was greeted by this SARCASM ON "beautiful sight" SARCASM OFF...



The store is Xtreme Sportswear (they have a location here on Hwy 95 and one in Henderson on S. Valle Verde)



I called and talked to the Clerk and asked for the name of the Manager of this store... The Manager was not there (I am going to talk to her tomorrow) so I asked the clerk about the sign and told her they would no longer get any of my business because of the new sign.

She stated "Well we put it up because not too long ago we almost got robbed"

I asked "how is this sign supposed to help?"

She said "Cause people won't bring guns in"

I replied... "OK look at it this way, Do you think the robber was carrying a gun legally"

"No, probably not" she said

"Ok so he was there to rob you, he probably had an illegal gun... Do you think the sign is going to stop him from coming in and robbing you again?" I asked...

"No, probably not" she said

I finished by saying "you are probably right, in fact the sign is going to now tell him 'there is no good guys in here with guns because they follow the rules' so now this store is an even EASIER target! Wouldn't that make sense? I mean which store would a robber rather rob, a store where they welcome legal gun owners or one that doesn't?? I would say the one that doesn't is obviously an easier target for someone looking to Rob, Rape or Murder the people inside right?"

"I guess" she said.

"OK thanks for your time, I will call and talk with the manager tomorrow, have a great evening!"

:quirky

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In AZ are signs legally binding? (I've heard of this being the case in another state.)

If so, it begs the question... what about the illiterate? (I have an adult brother who is illiterate due to learning disability, so this would be a serious issue for him if he wanted to carry in AZ.)

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There is no real good case law on this...perhaps Fred D. from AZCDL or Charles Heller or someone will come along and drop some gems BUT...as I understand it:

There are "legal" signs which post Federal or State property, and as of Aug 2009 there are the "legal" signs which restaurants serving alcohol can use, and must be posted by their liquor license and (I beleive this just became law), conspicuously near ALL entrances (because most places have their liq. licenses in out-of-the-way places where a normal person wouldn't see the No Firearms sign.

Then, there are "private" signs which I suppose technically constitute a "reasonable" request by the proprietor (see below).

"13-1502. Criminal trespass in the third degree; classification

A. A person commits criminal trespass in the third degree by:

1. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on any real property after a reasonable request to leave by the owner or any other person having lawful control over such property, or reasonable notice prohibiting entry."

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Now, some signs are really huge and spelled properly, some are half-assed and misspelled ("No Wepons" at the International Karaoke Bar in SV), and some are really really tiny (SV Mall). IANAL, but I don't think there is any case law which has tested the validity of these private signs or we would all know about it.

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The 'logic'behind postingthe sign....:banghead:

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Wouldn't it make more sense to put up a big sign saying....?

No robberies
No Violence
No Exceptions

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My first question would be how do you "almost" get robbed? Either you did or you didn't. Seems to me like "almost" getting robbed is like being "a little bit" pregnant.

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Can't wait to hear how the chit chat with the manager goes =)

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Store manager believes in this Fairy Tale:

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NO EXCEPTIONS!

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Have the police chimed in on this one.

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Update:

So I just talked to the manager and she said "it was the owners that requested that the sign be put up."

I explained the logic of how the sign made them an easier target and ran a couple scenarios with her with the sign and without the sign. She agreed that it made sense to her that the sign keeps good people out and tells bad people they won't be challenged inside. The point that I will not be shopping there and because of this both of their stores are now known in the gun world as "anti gun" was also made. I let her know that word of mouth advertising is a big deal, especially for small stores like this! I was OC the whole time and she did not ask me to leave. I also pointed out that the sign did not stop me, a GOOD GUY, from coming in with my gun and that if I had been a BAD GUY intending to do them harm or rob the store it obviously would not have hindered me in the least. She agreed, All in all it went well but she said I would have to talk to the owner about it. They will be in the store Saturday and I will be in Las Vegas so I plan on calling them.

She also explained to me what "almost got robbed" meant... Apparently a man came in with a gun and pointed it at the clerk and demanded money she refused and the man left... Hence they "almost got robbed" after this the clerk quit because of stress and they put up the sign.

It seems to have worked wonders as they have not been robbed since... :lol:

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Fallschirmjäger wrote:

Wouldn't it make more sense to put up a big sign saying....?

No robberies
No Violence
No Exceptions

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Would a sign like that make it MORE illegal than it already is?

Should I wear a t-shirt that says "No murdering me allowed!"

:quirky

I think my 1911 says it better...

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SCJeffro wrote:

She also explained to me what "almost got robbed" meant... Apparently a man came in with a gun and pointed it at the clerk and demanded money she refused and the man left... Hence they "almost got robbed" after this the clerk quit because of stress and they put up the sign.

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Sooo....

The clerk had huge clanking balls (even if the clerk was female).

The clerk quit.

Now, they invite it to happen more often and let all prospective robbers know that the bluff is just a bluff...

Brilliant.

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Would a sign like that make it MORE illegal than it already is?

Should I wear a t-shirt that says "No murdering me allowed!"

:quirky

I think my 1911 says it better...

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+1

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What a sign like that, or any "no weapons" sign, does is make the proprietor of the business entirely liable for any and all violence that may be perpetrated upon any customer by any person.

While that tenant of the law is somewhat standard, the business having gone out of the way to deprive law abiding citizens of their ability to defend themselves the business has just said that they will provide for your safety (more so that the general legal theory).

ALL of our families need to know that if there is ever an incident in which we are disarmed due to signage, laws, etc. and subsequently victimized that if we aren't able,they are to sue the responsible business of government agency for depriving us of our ability to defend ourselves.

EDIT ADD: By the way, do you have a store website or customer service e-mail addy for this business? Perhaps a few hundred "lost my business" e-mails will "serve notice" on the owners.

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In a way you have to respect the thoughtfulness behind that sign. Xtreme Sportsware has helped protectneighboring businesses from robberies by drawing all the crooks to their store.

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We-the-People wrote:

EDIT ADD: By the way, do you have a store website or customer service e-mail addy for this business? Perhaps a few hundred "lost my business" e-mails will "serve notice" on the owners.

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Why Yes sir I do!

http://www.xtremesportswearllc.com/

xtremevegas@hotmail.com

55 S. Valle Verde, Suite 220
Henderson, NV 89012
Phone: (702) 361-6600
Fax: (702) 361-6601

1751 Highway 95, Suite 83
Bullhead City, AZ 86442
Phone: (928) 763-3780
Fax: (928) 763-4989

In case you want to call or stop by and see them...
The owner's names are GLEN and LINDA (I have not talked to them yet, plan on doing that tomorrow)
They are in Henderson on Mondays and Tuesdays
They are in Bullhead city on Fridays and Saturdays

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Huck wrote:

In a way you have to respect the thoughtfulness behind that sign. Xtreme Sportsware has helped protectneighboring businesses from robberies by drawing all the crooks to their store.

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Holy CRAP... Evanston, Wyoming??? I used to live there, my family owns Superior Rental... SMALL WORLD.

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UPDATE #2, GOOD NEWS!

OK so I talked to the Owner, Linda and she was VERY nice, she explained in more detail a couple situations that led to the placement of the sign... She also stated that even though the sign is there they have "NO problem" with responsible people carrying a gun into their store... and has actually agreed to "change the sign"

Evidently along with the "Almost robbed" incident, at some point a couple of gun owners in Bullhead City came into the store and "flaunted their guns"... they actually removed their guns from their holsters and placed them on the counter inadvertently pointing them at the teenage clerk behind the counter! They acted in a manner that was dangerous and VERY irresponsible (and worthy of punishment in my opinion)... This is what led to the sign... A couple bad apples spoil the bunch kind of thing.

Anyway I explained my side and she said she understood my concern and that her husband collects and in fact carries a gun so they have NOTHING against gun owners or those responsible people that carry guns!

Basically BHC police told her that they need to have a sign if they want to be able to tell people to leave that have guns... (I don't know that this is true as it is private property and I believe they can tell anyone to leave if they want) but this is what BHC police told them.

So they are probably going to keep a sign of some sort but it will likely read something like "We reserve the right to ask you to leave if you are carrying a gun or weapon and act in an irresponsible manner" But it will not be a "No guns allowed"sign.

I think for the most part this was a good interaction and it does show that the store owners are not Anti-gun after all. The call went a lot better than I had expected actually. I was all ready for a good fight and the owner didn't give me any reason to!

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Good to hear, i sent them an email yesterday saying i would not visit unless they took down the sign, even tho i never leave Phoenix. :lol:

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OK so I decided to offer them this sign to use... Thoughts?