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Thread: Norfolk Harborfest 2010, June 11 - 13

  1. #1
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    All,

    I see that the Norfolk Harborfest is coming up June 11 - 13.

    I am planning on attending from about 10am to 2pm on the 12th (Saturday). Anyone else planning on OCing at the event?

    Anyone know if we can OC on the USS Wisconsin?

    Look forward to hearing from you all.

    Jeff

    Norfolk





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    Good question as this could get tricky, and I really don't know what the answer is. Here is what I found with just a quick search:

    "The Battleship Wisconsin has been turned over to the City of Norfolk and Nauticus on December 16, 2009. "

    As this is now City of Norfolk I would say it is ok to OC there, but here's where it mightget tricky:

    "The Hampton Roads Naval Museum is an accredited museum operated by the United States Navy that celebrates the 234 years history of the fleet in the Hampton Roads region of Virginia. We are located on the second floor of Nauticus in beautiful downtown Norfolk, Virginia."

    As it is operated by the USN on the second floor of Nauticus, does it now fall under Federal Property? If I remember correctly you have to go through the second floor to get to the Wisconsin. I really don't know the answer and don't have the time to follow up right now.

    Hopefully someone from the Hampton Roads area can answer. I'll do some more digging later tonight if nobody else can answer the question.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Hadn't considered that Nauticus was run by the Navy in regards to OC on the ship.
    Would it matter if it is operated but not owned by the USN?
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    The USS WISCONSIN was turned over to the City of Norfolk in April 2010. It is no longer owned by the Navy.

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    Based on what 2amdg17 wrote, you should be covered under Virginia Code 15.1-915.

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    aadvark wrote:
    Based on what 2amdg17 wrote, you should be covered under Virginia Code 15.1-915.
    Don't you mean under 15.2-915 ?

    What we commonly refer to as preemption of local municipalities by the state.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Back to the original question...now that we seem to have determined that we can carry on the USS Wisconsin....

    Anybody planning on attending?

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    ccloud43
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    I will probably stop by sometime that day and see what is happening.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I OC'd at Harborfest last year. No problems. I'd be up for a get-together this year. I sure miss the days of the Orignial Harborfest before the city got hold of it. Anyone here remember those days? It started as an all-night sailboat race to Old Plantation Flats to Wolf Trap and back to Ft Monroe. Everyone either anchored in Willoughby Bay or pulled in to RMS or the other marina there and then went back out for the Parade of Sail Friday morning. It then ended at Dunmore Docks (the floating piers where the Wisconsin is now moored) with a "Dock Party" for the sailors in the race. Your race flag (handed to you from the Ft Monroe pier via crab net as you crossed the finish line) was your "ticket" to tie up at the floating piers. Non-racers anchored across the river near Hospital point or on some ohter part of the waterfront.

    Long before they built "Waterside"...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
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    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    I OC'd at Harborfest last year. No problems. I'd be up for a get-together this year. I sure miss the days of the Orignial Harborfest before the city got hold of it. Anyone here remember those days? It started as an all-night sailboat race to Old Plantation Flats to Wolf Trap and back to Ft Monroe. Everyone either anchored in Willoughby Bay or pulled in to RMS or the other marina there and then went back out for the Parade of Sail Friday morning. It then ended at Dunmore Docks (the floating piers where the Wisconsin is now moored) with a "Dock Party" for the sailors in the race. Your race flag (handed to you from the Ft Monroe pier via crab net as you crossed the finish line) was your "ticket" to tie up at the floating piers. Non-racers anchored across the river near Hospital point or on some ohter part of the waterfront.

    Long before they built "Waterside"...
    Used to single handed race in regattas all around Hampton Roads including Back Bay and off Willoughby Spit. Was much fun - times have changed.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Grapeshot? Did you sail a Finn, Laser, Hobie 14 or.... We may have raced in some of the same regattas back then. I used to crew on a Nacra 5.8. Ugly @$$ boat, but pretty darn fast.


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Grapeshot? Did you sail a Finn, Laser, Hobie 14 or.... We may have raced in some of the same regattas back then. I used to crew on a Nacra 5.8. Ugly @$$ boat, but pretty darn fast.
    Mostly sailed a SeaHawk in handicapped class - a one deign boat that has disappeared. She was too fast = unstable for most.

    15 1/2 ft with 190 sg ft of sock sail - Happy Hogshire made my sails.

    Crewed on a Lightning from time to time - always wanted to sail a 505. The Finn is a fine boat.

    Knew Roger Morman, Ted Causy and the whole bunch - called Warwick Yacht Club home.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    ...And of course we didn't OC or eve CC back then.
    (trying to bring us back to topic )

    I raced 420's and later Hamptons out of NYCC. Taught the little ones El Toros (now they use Opti's). Sailed big boats offshore near Annapolis when I was in HS and moved up to the DC area (Dad was a Marine and transferred to HQMC).

    When I was in the Sea Scouts, wesailed the Skipjack Norfolk. The captain had a Civil War era blackpowder cannon. I think it may have been an earlyLyle gun, but it was all black, not shiny Bronze and had an iron baseplate, rather than wood.

    Thinking back, knowing what I know now, we were using some SERIOUSLY HUGE charges in that thing! We madecharges the size of a tennis ball from FFF or FFFF powder. We shot tennis balls (when the Captain wasn't watching us load) and once shot a can of Coke across Willoughby Bay.

    Those were some days...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Not likely that we'll see any of those boats at Harborfest, but there will be old friends and new ones to meet.

    Hate stink potters. :P

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I share your disdain for stinkpots. You do know what a skipjack is, right? Since I'm already OT, here I go:

    Skipjacks are the only vessels authorized todredge for oysters in Maryland. They are among the last of the sail-powered work boats in the world. Sloop rigged and designed to an interesting mathematical formula:
    LOA = height of mast from the waterline
    LOD (length on deck) = length of the boom
    Draft (centerboard up) = 1/3 beam
    Draft (board down) = 2/3 beam
    length of bowsprit = max beam
    The mast is raked back so it can also be used to offload the catch from the hold.
    They have a "Yawl Boat" in davits on the stern that is used to propel the vessel in and out of port and is authorized to push the boat while dredging for 2-3 days a week (depending on the current laws). There are about a dozen (or less) remaining
    http://www.skipjack.org/

    We sailed the Skipjack Norfolkat Harborfest for several years.

    I know the "good ol days" are long gone, but I look forward to meeting new friends and getting to know some fellow OCers this year...

    msc
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    I share your disdain for stinkpots. You do know what a skipjack is, right? Since I'm already OT, here I go:

    Skipjacks are the only vessels authorized todredge for oysters in Maryland. They are among the last of the sail-powered work boats in the world. Sloop rigged and designed to an interesting mathematical formula:
    LOA = height of mast from the waterline
    LOD (length on deck) = length of the boom
    Draft (centerboard up) = 1/3 beam
    Draft (board down) = 2/3 beam
    length of bowsprit = max beam
    The mast is raked back so it can also be used to offload the catch from the hold.
    They have a "Yawl Boat" in davits on the stern that is used to propel the vessel in and out of port and is authorized to push the boat while dredging for 2-3 days a week (depending on the current laws). There are about a dozen (or less) remaining
    http://www.skipjack.org/

    We sailed the Skipjack Norfolkat Harborfest for several years.

    I know the "good ol days" are long gone, but I look forward to meeting new friends and getting to know some fellow OCers this year...

    msc
    Had a place on Mopjack Bay for a while - does that answer that question.

    There are actually 2 different skipjacks - the famous Virginia work boats and the one-design sail boat that Roger Morman originally produced.

    There is even a Super Skipjack now.
    http://www.stevproj.com/SSkip1.html

    We didn't OC in those days, but we did party hearty.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Actually there was also a one-design day sailor called a "skipjack", too. They were sloop rigged and looked nothing like the "real" ones.

    They're a bit better known as Maryland work boats. A few were built on the Potomac in VA by Herman Krentz and his family on the Yeocomico River. Virginia allows dredging under power and didn't have a need for sailing work boats.

    the closest form of leagalized slave labor in this country today... working on the deck of a skipjack during "arster season"

    The only OCing that happened on them was during the "Oyster Wars of the Chesapeake" when dredgers and tongers from both states REALLY got into it. Imagine a 10-GA with a roll of dimes being emptied into the pilothouse of a tonging boat or a skipjack under full sail shooting a "broadside" of nuts, bolts, screws, nails and any other form of metal from a small cannon.... Check out the book with the same title. I may still have a copy around here somewhere.

    Wonder why Maryland is so "anti"? Watermen have long memories. Some of this stuff was still going on less than 100 years ago.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  18. #18
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    What's the latest on Harborfest?

    Anyone going want to get together somewhere? Was it established that we can or cannot go aboard the Wisconsin?

    There are only going to be 4 SMALL "tall ships" this year. Gone are the days when it was ALL ABOUT sailing. Before the CITY got 'hold of it...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    I just returned from Harborfest; I was there for about 30 minutes, around 5PM on Sunday afternoon. It was still crowded, there was a concert going on. I walked around, talked to the folks at the Dodge/Jeep display, spent some time looking over the Delaware tall ship, and refused to buy a $3 cup of lemonade...

    Anyway, I just got some head nods from the Norfolk PD, no trouble at all. I did have one walking behind me for about 1 minute, but I think he just happened to be there. I didn't bother going to the Wisconsin, since I've been aboard before, but hey, it's not going anywhere soon. Bottom line, no difficulties with open carry at Harborfest for me.

  20. #20
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    Dennis O'Connor and I went Saturday, around 7:30 PM - Dennis open carried, I concealed. 1 weird experience: a guy talking to some cops saw Dennis and came up to him and asked if Dennis was security. Dennis said, "no" and I (not having seen that he had come from where the two police were) told him there were two police officers over there if he needed assistance.


  21. #21
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    VCDL President wrote:
    Dennis O'Connor and I went Saturday, around 7:30 PM - Dennis open carried, I concealed.* 1 weird experience:* a guy talking to some cops saw Dennis and came up to him and asked if Dennis was security.* Dennis said, "no" and I (not having seen that he had come from where the two police were) told him there were two police officers over there if he needed assistance.
    Sounds like he wanted to be "in" with the guys with the guns lol
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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