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Thread: Cop MURDERS Biker In Cold Blood

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    This guy should be convicted of cold-blooded MURDER. Nothing Less.



    http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=7433661

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    Read the story you posted....he's NOT DEAD. He is however, paralyzed.
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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    Lets turn this into something forum-related. Otherwise it is just an off-topic thread.

    From a self-defense viewpoint, this looks like a bad shooting to me. I'll explain upon what I am basing that decision.

    The news video mentioned the words "split second decision". However, there is a difference between a split-second decision and premature decision.

    I can see no weapon. A brief movement of an arm even if consistent with drawing a weapon, is not, to my mind sufficient. There is still no threat. Only the possibility of a threat.

    It would be one thing if the defender knew from other information that the "assailant" was armed and presently dangerous and intended to fight back. But, from what is shown, I can't see the threat.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I apologize. I thought he was killed. Either way, the officer had no reason to shoot him from what I could see. I guess he's lucky he didn't kill him

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    The video youlinked brought up some questions that I didn't see answered.

    The leo was following the two bikers and they took off. Was he just following them or was he trying to stop them. Why did they take off like that.

    After what seemed like a not too long of a chase one stopped and the other stopped a little ways up the road. Where the second one stopped it looked like a second patrol car having caught the other biker. I didn't catch if the first officer radioed for help and it didn't seem like he had time to get a second car so where did the second one come from?

    If the two bikers stopped because they were "trapped" rather than just giving up I can see where the officer may have been more on edge and cautious than if they had just stopped and was why he got out with his gun in hand ready to shoot.

    From the video I sure couldn't see where he made a movement that would indicate that he was reaching for a gun and taken alone sure looks bad for the officer. I also wondered at first why he was charged with felony assault rather than something more serious. Then I remembered that he was after two criminals, and no matter how you want to whitewash it they were law breakers the moment they gunned it and this was something that happened during an attempted arrest. I cannot put all the blame on the officer as this would not have happened if the two had just kept riding at a legal speed rather than taking off like they did.

    If I was on the jury I would have to hear all the evidence before I could decide one way or the other and the officer was not totally to blame and to claim he should be charged with murder shows you are letting your emotions get the better of you.

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    I'll give this a shot.
    PT111 wrote:
    The video youlinked brought up some questions that I didn't see answered.

    The leo was following the two bikers and they took off. Was he just following them or was he trying to stop them. Why did they take off like that.
    He wasn't pulling them over until after they took off like that. They were not trying to get away though. Probably just sick of him following them. You must know how that is.

    After what seemed like a not too long of a chase one stopped and the other stopped a little ways up the road. Where the second one stopped it looked like a second patrol car having caught the other biker. I didn't catch if the first officer radioed for help and it didn't seem like he had time to get a second car so where did the second one come from?
    The officer probably radioed ahead in case he did have to give chase. it just so happened that the other cop got there when he did, but they were not running... just got a little out of control and hopped a curb. You must know how that is too.

    If the two bikers stopped because they were "trapped" rather than just giving up I can see where the officer may have been more on edge and cautious than if they had just stopped and was why he got out with his gun in hand ready to shoot.
    True, but I would have never shot because he didn't make a movement for a weapon. He even paused for a moment after turning while the officer shot him.

    From the video I sure couldn't see where he made a movement that would indicate that he was reaching for a gun and taken alone sure looks bad for the officer. I also wondered at first why he was charged with felony assault rather than something more serious. Then I remembered that he was after two criminals, and no matter how you want to whitewash it they were law breakers the moment they gunned it and this was something that happened during an attempted arrest. I cannot put all the blame on the officer as this would not have happened if the two had just kept riding at a legal speed rather than taking off like they did.
    "Gunning it" is still not a crime unless you squeal tires or speed. Still no cause for accelerating force to that point. They may have been speeding after they got up to speed, but the man who stopped did not seem to want any trouble.

    If I was on the jury I would have to hear all the evidence before I could decide one way or the other and the officer was not totally to blame and to claim he should be charged with murder shows you are letting your emotions get the better of you.
    From: http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=7435861"After being shot in the back, "I remember begging for help. I remember having my arms out, so he fired out another round. I remember explaining to him I didn't have a weapon and that he was in the wrong for shooting me."
    McCloskey's best friend testified that, after he called 911, Officer White didn't help him pick the bike up off of the victim. "I was telling him to get the bike off me. I was worried it was going to ignite on fire. I could tell it was leaking gasoline. I knew I was paralyzed, and I knew, if the bike was going to light on fire, I was going to burn alive," remembered McCloskey"

    This man was pleading for his life and thought he was going to burn to death when the officer fired a second round while he was paralyzed! There should not be any other need of additional testimony. This cop should have charges stacked to the roof for what he did. They would do the same for you or any one of us.



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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    G36Girl wrote:
    I apologize. I thought he was killed. Either way, the officer had no reason to shoot him from what I could see. I guess he's lucky he didn't kill him
    No worries. The shi!!y part of all of this is the "cop" is only being charged with Felonious Assualt with special circumstances. Max penalty by law is 11 years. When he is found guilty, I'll bet he gets way less than that.

    I hold a great deal of respect for LE, but its incidents like this that make me absolutely SICK!

    I keep hearing...in some states that LE are always "on alert" when they pull someone over, justifiably so. At the same time...I'm just as "on alert" when I get pulled over, wondering what kind of "LEO" he/she is.
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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    Aryk45XD wrote:
    I'll give this a shot.
    PT111 wrote:
    The video youlinked brought up some questions that I didn't see answered.

    The leo was following the two bikers and they took off. Was he just following them or was he trying to stop them. Why did they take off like that.
    He wasn't pulling them over until after they took off like that. They were not trying to get away though. Probably just sick of him following them. You must know how that is. Nope, I don't know how that is. Maybe get sick of a cop following me but not to take off at 100 mph.

    After what seemed like a not too long of a chase one stopped and the other stopped a little ways up the road. Where the second one stopped it looked like a second patrol car having caught the other biker. I didn't catch if the first officer radioed for help and it didn't seem like he had time to get a second car so where did the second one come from?
    The officer probably radioed ahead in case he did have to give chase. it just so happened that the other cop got there when he did, but they were not running... just got a little out of control and hopped a curb. You must know how that is too. Nope can't say that I do know how that is. Don't know that I have ever hopped a curb on a motorcycle while running from the cops. And yes I have had motorcycles in the past. I don't have one now.

    If the two bikers stopped because they were "trapped" rather than just giving up I can see where the officer may have been more on edge and cautious than if they had just stopped and was why he got out with his gun in hand ready to shoot.
    True, but I would have never shot because he didn't make a movement for a weapon. He even paused for a moment after turning while the officer shot him. I hope I would not have shot either but we can never say what we would or would not have done under the same circumstances.

    From the video I sure couldn't see where he made a movement that would indicate that he was reaching for a gun and taken alone sure looks bad for the officer. I also wondered at first why he was charged with felony assault rather than something more serious. Then I remembered that he was after two criminals, and no matter how you want to whitewash it they were law breakers the moment they gunned it and this was something that happened during an attempted arrest. I cannot put all the blame on the officer as this would not have happened if the two had just kept riding at a legal speed rather than taking off like they did.
    "Gunning it" is still not a crime unless you squeal tires or speed. Still no cause for accelerating force to that point. They may have been speeding after they got up to speed, but the man who stopped did not seem to want any trouble. Once you exceed the speed limit it is a crime and if you are riding along at the speed limit and gun it you are now breaking the law. You are correct that gunning it is not illegal as long as you have it under control and are not exceeding the speed limit. I agree that once they stopped they did not seem to want trouble then but until then they did give indications that they were up to something. I am sure that many will disageee but if a cop walks up and you immediately start to run it would be grounds for at least a "Terry Stop"

    If I was on the jury I would have to hear all the evidence before I could decide one way or the other and the officer was not totally to blame and to claim he should be charged with murder shows you are letting your emotions get the better of you.
    From: http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=7435861"After being shot in the back, "I remember begging for help. I remember having my arms out, so he fired out another round. I remember explaining to him I didn't have a weapon and that he was in the wrong for shooting me."
    McCloskey's best friend testified that, after he called 911, Officer White didn't help him pick the bike up off of the victim. "I was telling him to get the bike off me. I was worried it was going to ignite on fire. I could tell it was leaking gasoline. I knew I was paralyzed, and I knew, if the bike was going to light on fire, I was going to burn alive," remembered McCloskey"

    This man was pleading for his life and thought he was going to burn to death when the officer fired a second round while he was paralyzed! There should not be any other need of additional testimony. This cop should have charges stacked to the roof for what he did. They would do the same for you or any one of us.

    My responses in blue. One of the things most disturbing about this was the officers actions after the shooting, even the first few seconds after.

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    I never meany any disrespect from my post. I was just venting my frustraions with this whole thing. Please don't exaggerate though. They never even got close 50mph, much less 100mph. People do make mistakes. I have never made any of the ones these men made, but I have had mine. Thanks and stay safe.

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    Aryk45XD wrote:
    I never meany any disrespect from my post. I was just venting my frustraions with this whole thing. Please don't exaggerate though. They never even got close 50mph, much less 100mph. People do make mistakes. I have never made any of the ones these men made, but I have had mine. Thanks and stay safe.
    I understand your venting and took it as an Internet post which is worth the same thing mine was and both are worth what we paid for them. When something like this happens we see only a small part of it and make emotional judgements from that. If I only saw the part where the shooting happened I would be as some others, ready to hang the officer. However we have to looks at the whole story. I have read most of the reports on the news site and from what I have seen so far there is still a lot of blame to go around but I don't think the shooting was justified. Maybe I can understand why he did it but it still doesn't justify it.

    Sometimes I teach and students come in with what they claim is an excuse. I say to them, "You come in with a reason you were late etc. and I will determine if it is an excuse". There is a big difference between a reason and an excuse. I can partially see the reason for his actions but don't think I can excuse them.

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    It may not have been murder at this point, but I feel the intent to kill was just the same. Too many people, being paralyzed is like being dead. At the very least, you will now live a life of imprisonment and torture due to your disabilities and all of the ills that will come later as a direct result of it. You can pretty much bet his lifespan has now been significantly shortened as well.

    Should he die of a blood clot, of pneumonia or any of the other multitudes of lethal effects that are possible when suffering paralysis, then that officer should be charged with murder. It may be a few weeks, a few years or even decades but this victim has a much higher chance of dying in direct relation to this assault than he will of any other everyday circumstance. There is no statute of limitations on murder either.

    You can't just go around shooting people in the U.S.A simply because you are scared. If this country gave all its citizens that same leeway, it would turn into a bloodbath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    Nope, I don't know how that is. Maybe get sick of a cop following me but not to take off at 100 mph.
    C'mon man. They were no where near 100mph. I re-watched the video and can see no evidence of them lifting a front tire, or any tire marks on the road. If you've ever ridden a bike before you should understand they accelerate far faster than other vehicles due to an extremely high power to weight ratio.

    My bike isn't even considered particularly high performance by today's standards, but still has a factory claimed 0-60 time of 3.1 seconds. Taking advantage of that acceleration is not against the law.

    I'd like to also say that the presumption these guys were running is ridiculous! At night with a car behind you, all you see in your mirrors is the headlights. If you're near a street light and you look closely, you may catch a glimpse of a light bar. What's more likely is these guys were irritated someone was following too closely which is particularly dangerous to a motorcycle rider.

    In the event someone is following too closely and you have a blow out or some other catastrophic equipment failure, the car behind you may not be able to stop before running you over.

    You'll notice, within seconds of the red and blues coming on (i checked, less than 15 seconds from the lights coming on to one of the bikers being at a complete stop.), one biker pulls over, while the other appears to have looked in his mirrors in the corner and target fixated causing him to overshoot the corner and hop the curb.
    Last edited by therealcombat; 02-17-2011 at 11:59 PM.

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    Look at the vid this guy doesn't even take his left hand off the handlebars (clutch side). On my bike ( SHOVELHEAD ) you can't put it into neutral with motor running you must hold clutch lever in if you want to idle in gear. (various things cuase this ,...ie..worn clutch, weak pressure plate springs, stressed cable , and other things) By the way he takes off I may guess he has worn clutch or weak press springs. now your arm would move up a little naturally if you turned to look back when holding clutch in also look at vid, his hand hardly if at all leaves his leg when he turned. now as far as the way they took off , well thats part of bike riding, its the feel of the acceleration and hearing that motor roar , the feeling is so common that two riders don't have to say hey lets have a good take off, all they have to do is look and give that grin and its throttle jockey time. that even happens on the open road after many miles of riding (if you don't ride a bike you wouldn't understand ) now as you watch the video notice that you can really hear those motors breathing but you can't hardly hear the gun shots .so if you are on those bikes at that time you probally won't hear the scirene behind you till your motor levels off. why didn't they notice the lights right away , when you are getting on it you tend to look forward and only notice what is in front of you ,not what is around . (I constantly pay more attention to what is in or on the road in front of me when I ride.) however they didn't seem to be evading or they wouldn't have stopped at that stop sign and someone wrote that they were criminals wellll, I must have missed that part ...where did they get that at? and then they try to justify that statement is by saying they were law breakers the moment they gunned it ...the only thing that got gunned was the guy on the bike...gunned down that is ... hummm excessive display of power or maybe speeding a class c misdermeanor so we now shoot citizens for class c misdermeanors ... don.t let your insurance overlap...cause your going down. the cop may serve up to 11 yrs (doubt it. just like those two seattle iron pigs .."cop wannabe out law bike club with their 3 piece patch " that when drinking in a bar shot down an unarmed hells angle in sturgis got nothing. google it)well boo hoo what about that 24 yr old that will probally be serving life in a wheelchair. oh thats right I forgot he was alledegly breaking a misdermeanor or two I say alledegly cause it hadn't been determined in court that they were guilty of such and we wouldn't won't to jump to conclusions. after all we extend that courtacy to the leo triggerman don't we......pt111
    Last edited by bushwacker; 02-18-2011 at 04:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushwacker View Post
    Look at the vid this guy doesn't even take his left hand off the handlebars (clutch side). On my bike ( SHOVELHEAD ) you can't put it into neutral with motor running you must hold clutch lever in if you want to idle in gear. (various things cuase this ,...ie..worn clutch, weak pressure plate springs, stressed cable , and other things) By the way he takes off I may guess he has worn clutch or weak press springs. now your arm would move up a little naturally if you turned to look back when holding clutch in also look at vid, his hand hardly if at all leaves him lag when he turned. now as far as the way they took off , well thats part of bike riding, its the feel of the acceleration and hearing that motor roar , the feeling is so common that two riders don't have to say hey lets have a good take off, all they have to do is look and give that grin and its throttle jocky time. that even happens on the open road after many miles of riding (if you don't ride a bike you wouldn't understand ) now as you watch the video notice that you can really hear those motors breathing but you can't hardly hear the gun shots .so if you are on those bikes at that time you probally won't hear the scirene behind you till your motor levels off. why didn't they notice the lights right away , when you are getting on it you tend to look forward and only notice what is in front of you ,not what is around . (I constantly pay more attention to what is in or on the road in front of me when I ride.) however they didn't seem to be evading or they wouldn't have stopped at that stop sign and someone wrote that they were criminals wellll, I must have missed that part ...where did they get that at? and then they try to justify that statement is by saying they were law breakers the moment they gunned it ...the only thing that got gunned was the guy on the bike...gunned down that is ... hummm excessive display of power or maybe speeding a class c misdermeanor so we now shoot citizens for class c misdermeanors ... don.t let your insurance overlap...cause your going down. the cop may serve up to 11 yrs (doubt it. just like those two seattle iron pigs .."cop wannabe out law bike club with their 3 piece patch " that when drinking in a bar shot down an unarmed hells angle in sturgis got nothing. google it)well boo hoo what about that 24 yr old that will probally be serving life in a wheelchair. oh thats right I forgot he was alledegly breaking a misdermeanor or two I say alledegly cause it hadn't been determined in court that they were guilty of such and we wouldn't won't to jump to conclusions. after all we extend that courtacy to the leo triggerman don't we......pt111
    Well said, man. At worst, these guys may have been guilty of speeding... But that's a stretch as we don't know the speed limit.

    Regardless of whether they were speeding or not, the cop shot the guy for looking behind him while stopped. All the guy does is turn around.... he did nothing threatening.

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