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Thread: called Wal-marts customer service about open carry

  1. #1
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    I gave wal-mart customer service a call today and I told them about my experience in the Morehead, Ky wal-mart a few weeks ago. Here is the link to the post I made on my experience there. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum25/41860.html
    The women I spoke too said that they leave it up to the store managers on whether to allow open carry in there stores. When did this policy take effect? I asked if they had a company policy on the carrying of firearms in there stores and she said no, but they leave the decision to allow carry up to the manager of the store. I have read on this forum several times that wal-mart follows state law and does not let managers make up there own policy's. I would really like a definitive answer on this subject!

    Thanks

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    Open Carry is recognized as an individual right in Kentucky.So there is a law that protects the Individuals right to open carryin a place of business that's open to the public.







    Kentucky Constitution


    Section 195


    Corporation property subject to eminent domain -- Corporations not to infringe upon individuals.


    The Commonwealth, in the exercise of the right of eminent domain, shall have and retain the same powers to take the property and franchises of incorporated companies for public use which it has and retains to take the property of individuals, and the exercise of the police powers of this Commonwealth shall never be abridged nor so construed as to permit corporations to conduct their business in such manner as to infringe upon the equal rights of individuals.

    Text as Ratified on: August 3, 1891, and revised September 28, 1891.
    History: Not yet amended.


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    NavyLT wrote:
    givemeliberty wrote:
    Open Carry is recognized as an individual right in Kentucky.So there is a law that protects the Individuals right to open carryin a place of business that's open to the public.







    Kentucky Constitution


    Section 195


    Corporation property subject to eminent domain -- Corporations not to infringe upon individuals.


    The Commonwealth, in the exercise of the right of eminent domain, shall have and retain the same powers to take the property and franchises of incorporated companies for public use which it has and retains to take the property of individuals, and the exercise of the police powers of this Commonwealth shall never be abridged nor so construed as to permit corporations to conduct their business in such manner as to infringe upon the equal rights of individuals.

    Text as Ratified on: August 3, 1891, and revised September 28, 1891.
    History: Not yet amended.
    Tell that to the police when the property manager asks you to leave and you stand your ground and see what happens. What you quoted gives you, a private party, no right to remain on anyone else's private property against their wishes. Wal Mart is private property under the control of the Wal Mart corporation.
    Were does Section 195 say anything about private property?:?

    The legal definition of private property is "non taxable andnon regulated property"

    Walmart by definition is a corporation. Corporations are not private property, and the land they sit on is commercial property. Corporations are not individuals and have no rights, only privileges.No were in the Constitution do we the people give the Government the authority to grant artificial entities the right to infringe on the rights of individuals.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    I've been down this road myself. In my encounter though, they admitted that they could NOT refuse entrance!

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum25/37030.html

    Additionally, I have a voicemail in MP3 format from Wal-Mart's Market Office, the folks that make policy for the whole of Wal-Mart nationwide. If someone can detail how to get this uploaded on the forum, I'll gladly post this audio file for those of you that are interested in having a copy.

    I retrieved this from another post sometime back that someone else had on here.

    According to the Market Office, they have NO RIGHT to refuse you entrance as long as you are within the law as per open carrying. They stated that they follow the laws of the states in which they operate!

    If you'd like to personally contact them at the WM Market Office here's the number:

    (757) 471-1651

    I was recently in Morehead on Monday, I wish I'd known about this issue then. I will be going back down sometime later in the month though.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    After I posted the above, I got to thinking and re-read what you had writte, Bat. Since I've been on here and have been OC'ing, I've learned a few hard and fast rules to OC.

    1. NEVER ask if you can OC in a store. The reason for this is simple. If you ask the store manager the vast majority will automatically tell you a loud and resounding NO! This isn't because you're wrong, it's because asking them that is like saying the word "GUN" around a rookie cop, THEY BOTH FREAK!

    If the store DOES NOT have any form of a NFA sign, then they have chosen to allow OC whether intentionally or by just not caring enough to worry with posting one. It is OK to proceed on and shop.

    If they are opposed to OC and don'tconfront you while in the store and choose to instead call the police. It's no big deal, the police will come of course and they will, if need be, ask you to leave. If this occurs, DO SO. Otherwise you'll be facing a Criminal Trespassing charge but NOfirearms charge. Still you don't want a CT charge all the same.

    If on the other hand the store has some form of NFA signage that pertains to OC and that is the fashion in which you happen to be carrying that day, DO NOT proceed, just got elsewhere to shop and file a complaint with the stores manager! Still the worse thing that can happen is the store manager can request you leave while you're carrying, if you do leave then that's the end of it! If you refuse to leave, then they will of course call the police and they will ask you to leave, if you're lucky. If that happens, COMPLY!

    I had been asked by an older, fellow, CCDW carrier if I walked up to a store and I observed a NO CONCEALED WEAPONS/NO OPEN CARRYsign and I was concealed carrying that day, what would I do? Personally, for me, I'd continue on in. My reasoning is very simple, it would cause alot more commotion and draw alot more attention to the fact that I was or had been armed and carrying a concealed deathly weapon if I have to go back to my vehicle and then try to remove my shoulder rig in broad daylight in my vehicle. Best to just go on and take care of business and leave than to draw unneeded attention to the fact that I'm armed and possibly run the greater risk of having to contend with a MWAG call. The worst possible outcome of going on in and taking care of whatever it was that you'd come for, they ask you to leave.

    2. Know you're KRS, even if you have to jot down the KRS numbers as a reference.

    3. When confronted by store management or others about OC'ing, don't be nervous and start actingscared or falky! If you start acting in such a manner, it will only lead to a worse scenario for you. People tend to key off of other person. If you start to act weird, they're going to get nervous and that MWAG call will go out! On the other hand, if you stand there and talk to them calmly, politely, and with authority and knowledge, they will see that you are no criminal or dangerous person. That's how my situation went in the Paintsville Wal Mart.

    Basically, be as knowledgable as possible, know that you are within your Rights to OC. Be bold, calm, collected, and a little jovial when the need dictates. You'd be really surprised just how far a good smile will get you with people.

    It's not easy being calm, collected, knowledgable, and slightly jovial when you're staring at LEO but that's when you have to know and understand your Rights to OC and you have to also understand that these LEO's are NOT your enemy. They're just there doing their job. If they receive a call, they have to investigate it.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    givemeliberty wrote:
    Open Carry is recognized as an individual right in Kentucky.So there is a law that protects the Individuals right to open carryin a place of business that's open to the public.

    Kentucky Constitution


    Section 195

    Corporation property subject to eminent domain -- Corporations not to infringe upon individuals.

    The Commonwealth, in the exercise of the right of eminent domain, shall have and retain the same powers to take the property and franchises of incorporated companies for public use which it has and retains to take the property of individuals, and the exercise of the police powers of this Commonwealth shall never be abridged nor so construed as to permit corporations to conduct their business in such manner as to infringe upon the equal rights of individuals.

    Text as Ratified on: August 3, 1891, and revised September 28, 1891.
    History: Not yet amended.
    This refers to "equal rights" not rights gebnerally - private entities are generally feree to violate your rights all they want when you walk onto priv property.

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    The reason I posted this is because I have read on here numerous times that Wal-mart follows the law of the state in regards to open carry. I called Wal-mart customer service to get it straight from the horse's mouth, and I was told that it is up to the manager of the store. I would like to add a note about what the manager said to me when I asked he said "We don't have to many people coming in here and shooting up the place, so you shouldn't have anything to worry about" I was appalled at that statement but like I said I was in a big hurry to get to the lake and didn't want to press the issue or make a scene. The funny thing is I have carried around Cave Run numerous times and have had zero issues with it and I have went into the businesses around the lake to purchase drinks and snacks and haven't gotten a second glance. I have been to the picnic areas around the lake with many people present and haven't had a problem. Just the Morehead Wal-mart has given me a problem.

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    If anybody else is going to be in the Morehead area please stop in Wal-mart and see if they refuse you entrance because of OCing. I would really like to get this issue resolved.

  9. #9
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Bat: I went back to the Wal Mart in Morehead and had no issues at all. We went in the GM side of the SuperCenter. We roamed all throughout the store and never encounter anyone that said or asked about the sidearm.

    Just thought I'd update you. Give it another go and let us know how it goes.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Keep your open carry discreet - if people are noticing you, you may be doing somthing wrong.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Very true. I had been reading Massad Ayoob's book on concealed carry. In it he talks about some open carry subjects as well as CC.

    I've got terms for some of the things he covered for instance, we all know what CC is and how that works, even in the rough sense. But in reference to OC, I see at least 2 different types though they're the same.

    Something Mas talked about is what I now call "Passive Concealed OC", this is demonstrated as such, If your sidearm is black and your carry holster is black and you're wearing black pants, though you're gun is legally OC, it's vastly more "invisible" than if your sidearm in black, the holster is a light colour and your pants are white or khaki.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Attitude speaks a lot too. If you are self-conscious of the iron on your hip, people tend to notice it more. Think of it as the Jedi mind trick. This is not the gun you are looking for, there is no spoon. yada yada yada. Seriously though, it does help.

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    Wal-Mart Official Company Policy out of Bentonville, Arkansas is that:

    Wal-Mart follows the Laws of The State wherein the Wal-Mart is located in the respect of Firearm Regulation. Simply put..., if the State allows it, then, by default, all of The Wal-Marts in that State allow it too.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    This thread has gotten out of hand BADLY! This is ridiculous folks!

    OK, as we all should know by now, Wal Mart does have a corporate policy to follow the laws of the state in which said store is located.

    Now, if you OC into a Wal Mart and that stores manager is either uninformed or just didn't care to know the policy on OC, then of course he might and could ask you to leave the store. If they're smart, they will call the corporate office to inquire about this before upping the ante. If they aren't that smart then they will of course call the police.

    Once the police show up, if they are so inclined that day, they might ask you to leave the store again. If you choose to refuse, you will no doubt be arrested and charged with CRIMINAL TRESPASSING!

    Now, if the OC'er is smart, they will contact their attorney ASAP and get them on this immediately because they have one heck of a civil lawsuit against that Wal Mart's store manager as well as Wal Mart themselves, possibly! As for the criminal charge, I don't know how that would play out but being that said manager violated the corpporate policy and caused Wal Mart's to get sued and to lose a MASSIVE $$$ lawsuit as well as causing this whole issue to start with, they will no doubt be out of a job VERY FAST. If the civil suit is conducted first then I'd venture to guess that that outcome will weigh heavily in the possible criminal suit, if there even is a criminal suit after the fact of a civil suit proving that the OC'er was within their legal rights.

    My POV, even if they're wrong, do as the police ask when it comes to a situation like this, they are NOT the enemy! If I were in this sitaution, I would definitely have an issue with the manager but I WOULD NOT have an issue with the LEO's, they're just doing their job, the store manager on the other hand was NOT!

    This is my last post on this topic! This thread should've only been a few post long with a few added jokes and ribbing but people seem to have taken this as a personal attack on their ideologies & thoughts, IT'S NOT! It's just a forum for the free exchange of ideas and thoughts. Lighten up people. *LOL*
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    This thread has gotten out of hand. All I was stating here is that I called 1-800-Walmart and inquired about there OC policy and was told THEY LEAVE IT UP TO THE MANAGER OF THE STORE. They follow state law on the carry of firearms but they leave it up to the manager of the store. There words not mine. I started this tread so I could figure out why I told I couldn't bring my firearm in the store after reading on this forum and others that Walmart follows state law in regards to firearms. I just wanted a clear answer on the subject. I apologize if I caused a stir.

    Thanks

    P.S

    I will try to OC in Morehead's wal-mart again but this time WITHOUT ASKING FIRST and see if I get the same result. I realize now that it was a stupid move on my part to ask but I am learning the ropes of OC.

  16. #16
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    It's not your fault, Bat. Things just got out of hand here, usually we're a pretty tame and straight-forward crowd. *LOL*

    It's not stupid that you asked, you were new to OC and just weren't award, that's all.

    A bit of good news, that more you OC and the more success you have, the easier it becomes.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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