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Another Courant editorial article

GoldCoaster

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And half our problem is "2A supporters" so-called that piss all over the rights of others because they don't like open carry, or don't like carry in cars, or don't like semi-autos because they feel like only revolvers are acceptable.

If we don't all stand together they will divide and conquer us bit by bit. death by a thousand cuts and all that.

If you're a 2A supporter leave it at that. Whatever your personal carry preference is, keep it personal, don't piss on other people because they choose to carry differently.
 

Leverdude

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Norwalk, Connecticut, USA
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MGoduto wrote:
Rich B wrote:
I wonder why those opposed to open-carry use words like '....parade...' to describe the actions of peaceable folks as they go about their business. I guess the use of inflammatory language, insults, and name-calling is just business-as-usual.

Because thats exactly how it is percieved by many & why we need to think things out before going hog wild over a newly discovered thing like OC in CT. For decades people carried mostly concealed, to think that people suddenly carrying openly simply because they can wouldn't create some bad publicity or make some permit holders nervous is naive at best. Everywhere else I know of that has OC only requires a permit to conceal, OC is legal as long as you can posess a gun.
I certainly respect everyones right to carry however they choose within the law, but I also realize that OC is more likely in CT to create a movement towards greater restrictions than not. It might have been wise to firm up our position legally before pushing the issue. OC shouldn't require a permit at all, since it does its a real easy thing for us to lose and that fact should be at the forefront of all of our thoughts, especially those who choose to open carry.

At any rate carrying openly and looking/waiting for a response can be reasonably called paradeing about I think. Look at the posts on the subject, "I carried in such & such without issue" "I keep waiting for someone to say something while I'm OCing so I can tell them such & such" The old saying "Be careful what you wish for " comes to mind.

Perceptions matter and perceptions effect legislation. I sure hope I'm wrong but I expect once most of CT realizes that our system permits OC they'll back the DPS in their attempts to mandate concealment.

It sucks but it is the reality we are working with & we all need to realize that, so far all we have done is get the cops to aknowledge its legal, we need to convince the legislature & citizenry its acceptable before things snowball.
 

ManInBlack

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SW Idaho
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To obtain a carry permit in this state, one must...undergo a thorough background investigation to determine suitability to be granted the right to carry a gun.


When will people realize that rights can't be granted? :cuss:



Even among our putative allies, this mindset remains a major problem, in my opinion.
 

MGoduto

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107
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New Britain, Connecticut, USA
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Leverdude wrote:
MGoduto wrote:
Rich B wrote:
I wonder why those opposed to open-carry use words like '....parade...' to describe the actions of peaceable folks as they go about their business. I guess the use of inflammatory language, insults, and name-calling is just business-as-usual.

Because thats exactly how it is percieved by many & why we need to think things out before going hog wild over a newly discovered thing like OC in CT. For decades people carried mostly concealed, to think that people suddenly carrying openly simply because they can wouldn't create some bad publicity or make some permit holders nervous is naive at best. Everywhere else I know of that has OC only requires a permit to conceal, OC is legal as long as you can posess a gun.
I certainly respect everyones right to carry however they choose within the law, but I also realize that OC is more likely in CT to create a movement towards greater restrictions than not. It might have been wise to firm up our position legally before pushing the issue. OC shouldn't require a permit at all, since it does its a real easy thing for us to lose and that fact should be at the forefront of all of our thoughts, especially those who choose to open carry.

At any rate carrying openly and looking/waiting for a response can be reasonably called paradeing about I think. Look at the posts on the subject, "I carried in such & such without issue" "I keep waiting for someone to say something while I'm OCing so I can tell them such & such" The old saying "Be careful what you wish for " comes to mind.

Perceptions matter and perceptions effect legislation. I sure hope I'm wrong but I expect once most of CT realizes that our system permits OC they'll back the DPS in their attempts to mandate concealment.

It sucks but it is the reality we are working with & we all need to realize that, so far all we have done is get the cops to aknowledge its legal, we need to convince the legislature & citizenry its acceptable before things snowball.
The thing is, open carry has ALWAYS been legal in Connecticut. It's the DPS that's been spreadingfalsehoods through their website and in communications with individual gun owners. That has changed as far as I know. The DPS has tried to get concealment mandated by legislation the past few years, and has failed.

Why? Because open carry isn't a problem and open-carriers don't cause problems.

I had a conversation with a West Hartford police seargent about OC; the only problem he saw was that it's uncommon in Connecticut. Educating the cops is a very important step so that they handle OC'ers properly. The next step is to train the police dispatchers to ask the proper questions and relay accurate information to the cops responding to a MWAG call.

I don't see the need to firm-up the legalities of open-carry.The question has been posed and answered by the Office Of Legislative Research, and in a memo penned by the Commissioner of Public Safety (where he supported a concealment mandate). Our state is like a number of others (Pennsylvania comes to mind) in that the permit mentions nothing about 'concealed carry'.The permit is a 'license to carry'.

When I OC I'm not looking to get a 'response' from anyone. I'm just going about my business. I've been challenged about OC by several folksand have taken the time to explain what the law is in this state, and where my 'challenger' can confirm what I've said. I'm respectful and polite.


My view: as we OC'ers go about our business, our behavior will illustrate that the hysteria spread by gun-grabbers is just a pile of BS.

Just my 2 cents worth... :D



mg
 

Tazman2

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Feb 25, 2009
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82
Location
Newington, Connecticut, USA
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MGoduto wrote:
I had a conversation with a West Hartford police seargent about OC; the only problem he saw was that it's uncommon in Connecticut. Educating the cops is a very important step so that they handle OC'ers properly. The next step is to train the police dispatchers to ask the proper questions and relay accurate information to the cops responding to a MWAG call.
What's funny is that the Chief told me flat out I'm required by law to conceal my pistol when I met with him for a interview for my permit in November of 2007. Not sure if its the same Chief still now as I've since moved out of that camera on every corner city! :p
 

MGoduto

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New Britain, Connecticut, USA
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Tazman2 wrote:
MGoduto wrote:
I had a conversation with a West Hartford police seargent about OC; the only problem he saw was that it's uncommon in Connecticut. Educating the cops is a very important step so that they handle OC'ers properly. The next step is to train the police dispatchers to ask the proper questions and relay accurate information to the cops responding to a MWAG call.
What's funny is that the Chief told me flat out I'm required by law to conceal my pistol when I met with him for a interview for my permit in November of 2007. Not sure if its the same Chief still now as I've since moved out of that camera on every corner city! :p
I had a similarencounter where an off-duty Suffield cop (who was out of his jurisdiction and had been drinking beers) was adamant that I had to conceal. I asked where in state law I could find this requirement, and that I was willing to admit that I was wrong if he could show me. He shut his mouth after that.

The West Hartford cop I talked to was a fellow named Perruccio, I think. A younger guy (late 30's-early 40's), easy to talk to, personable.

I also remember a conversation I had with a New Britain police captain who said that he'd arrest anyone on breach-of-peace if he saw them OC'ing. I walked through my points that OC was legal, breach-of-peace addressed illegal conduct, and pointed to where he could find accurate information.

Maybe it helped; he looked thoughtful after we finished our conversation.

All that we can do is our best and promote our cause by our behavior.



mg
 

MGoduto

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New Britain, Connecticut, USA
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Rich B wrote:
Wow, a New Britain officer tells you to cover up? When they have an ordinance forbidding concealed carry?

Got a name?

He didn't say '...cover it up...' andthere's no city ordinance mandating a mode of carry that I'm aware of.

I asked him about OC and that's when he made his '...arrest for breach-of-peace...' statement.

The fellow was Matthew Tuttle, I believe



mg
 

Rich B

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North Branford, Connecticut, USA
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MGoduto wrote:
He didn't say '...cover it up...'
Fair enough, but telling you that you could be arrested for OC is really the same message.

and there's no city ordinance mandating a mode of carry that I'm aware of.

I am only going by what I have learned on this forum, and that is to open carry in New Britain:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=41783&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=38613&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=23969&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=16458&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

I believe Ed Peruta is correct that their ordinance is worthless, but all the same, they don't seem to be aware of it, and they are giving advice that is against their ordinance.
 

MGoduto

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New Britain, Connecticut, USA
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Rich B wrote:
MGoduto wrote:
He didn't say '...cover it up...'
Fair enough, but telling you that you could be arrested for OC is really the same message.

andthere's no city ordinance mandating a mode of carry that I'm aware of.

I am only going by what I have learned on this forum, and that is to open carry in New Britain:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=41783&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=38613&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=23969&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=16458&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

I believe Ed Peruta is correct that their ordinance is worthless, but all the same, they don't seem to be aware of it, and they are giving advice that is against their ordinance.
Yeah, I've read these.

Weird. When I got my prints taken at the PD, and when I went to get my 'temporary' permit, nothing was mentioned about this ordinance. Maybe they forgot about it.

I think that Ed is right, too.


mg
 

Leverdude

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Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Norwalk, Connecticut, USA
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MGoduto wrote:
Leverdude wrote:
MGoduto wrote:
Rich B wrote:
I wonder why those opposed to open-carry use words like '....parade...' to describe the actions of peaceable folks as they go about their business. I guess the use of inflammatory language, insults, and name-calling is just business-as-usual.

Because thats exactly how it is percieved by many & why we need to think things out before going hog wild over a newly discovered thing like OC in CT. For decades people carried mostly concealed, to think that people suddenly carrying openly simply because they can wouldn't create some bad publicity or make some permit holders nervous is naive at best. Everywhere else I know of that has OC only requires a permit to conceal, OC is legal as long as you can posess a gun.
I certainly respect everyones right to carry however they choose within the law, but I also realize that OC is more likely in CT to create a movement towards greater restrictions than not. It might have been wise to firm up our position legally before pushing the issue. OC shouldn't require a permit at all, since it does its a real easy thing for us to lose and that fact should be at the forefront of all of our thoughts, especially those who choose to open carry.

At any rate carrying openly and looking/waiting for a response can be reasonably called paradeing about I think. Look at the posts on the subject, "I carried in such & such without issue" "I keep waiting for someone to say something while I'm OCing so I can tell them such & such" The old saying "Be careful what you wish for " comes to mind.

Perceptions matter and perceptions effect legislation. I sure hope I'm wrong but I expect once most of CT realizes that our system permits OC they'll back the DPS in their attempts to mandate concealment.

It sucks but it is the reality we are working with & we all need to realize that, so far all we have done is get the cops to aknowledge its legal, we need to convince the legislature & citizenry its acceptable before things snowball.
The thing is, open carry has ALWAYS been legal in Connecticut. It's the DPS that's been spreadingfalsehoods through their website and in communications with individual gun owners. That has changed as far as I know. The DPS has tried to get concealment mandated by legislation the past few years, and has failed.

Why? Because open carry isn't a problem and open-carriers don't cause problems.

I had a conversation with a West Hartford police seargent about OC; the only problem he saw was that it's uncommon in Connecticut. Educating the cops is a very important step so that they handle OC'ers properly. The next step is to train the police dispatchers to ask the proper questions and relay accurate information to the cops responding to a MWAG call.

I don't see the need to firm-up the legalities of open-carry.The question has been posed and answered by the Office Of Legislative Research, and in a memo penned by the Commissioner of Public Safety (where he supported a concealment mandate). Our state is like a number of others (Pennsylvania comes to mind) in that the permit mentions nothing about 'concealed carry'.The permit is a 'license to carry'.

When I OC I'm not looking to get a 'response' from anyone. I'm just going about my business. I've been challenged about OC by several folksand have taken the time to explain what the law is in this state, and where my 'challenger' can confirm what I've said. I'm respectful and polite.


My view: as we OC'ers go about our business, our behavior will illustrate that the hysteria spread by gun-grabbers is just a pile of BS.

Just my 2 cents worth... :D



mg

We arent that far apart in views. I dont think the DPS spread falsehoods intentionally, just as I dont think instructors or local police did. I think as time went on it just became accepted as the law because thats how most people did it in urban & suburban settings.
I'm unsure of how carry laws evolved in CT, in most places they saw a need for permits for concealed guns. Somehow we ended up with what actually ammounts to a permit to posess outside the home.

At any rate IMO the reason the DPS legislation died is because no legislators were getting any push for it from their constituants. It has nothing to do with open carry itself.

I agree with the idea of educating the LE community about it as well, most I talk to know about it already & say its not a big deal, though they dont always understand why the need to carry openly, most of them dont when off duty.

Our state is NOT like PA. In PA you dont need a permit to open carry, just to conceal. Anybody who can own a gun can legally go buy a handgun in PA without a permit.
We need to firm up the legislation because many will see the lack of a concealment requirement simply a loophole. As long as our open carry is permit based its very percarious. It should be, as it is in PA & other states that recognize it as a right, simply legal to carry openly or transport guns without a permit and only require a permit to carry concealed.


My view: as we OC'ers go about our business, our behavior will illustrate that the hysteria spread by gun-grabbers is just a pile of BS.

I hope you are right.;) I just think it very optomistic to think folks who ignore logic & reality every day will come around just because logic & reality prove they should.

Either way the ball is rolling now & I suppose we will see where it ends up.
 

Tazman2

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
82
Location
Newington, Connecticut, USA
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MGoduto wrote:
Rich B wrote:
MGoduto wrote:
He didn't say '...cover it up...'
Fair enough, but telling you that you could be arrested for OC is really the same message.

andthere's no city ordinance mandating a mode of carry that I'm aware of.

I am only going by what I have learned on this forum, and that is to open carry in New Britain:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=41783&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=38613&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=23969&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=16458&forum_id=14&highlight=new+britain+ordinance

I believe Ed Peruta is correct that their ordinance is worthless, but all the same, they don't seem to be aware of it, and they are giving advice that is against their ordinance.
Yeah, I've read these.

Weird. When I got my prints taken at the PD, and when I went to get my 'temporary' permit, nothing was mentioned about this ordinance. Maybe they forgot about it.

I think that Ed is right, too.


mg

http://www.newbritainct.gov/PDF/NB_ORDINANCES16.PDF

Section 16-80. :celebrate
 
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