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Thread: Liberals and Gun Control

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    I see it on here every day; people blaming Progressive Liberals for every gun law and anti-gun sentiment in existence. I just want to remind everyone that the Brady Campaign was founded by REPUBLICANS. That's right. Sarah Brady, the wife of Jim Brady, who was shot in the head during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley in order to impress Jodie Foster was a Republican.

    And please don't accuse me of being a Liberal because I'm not. I'm a little to the right of center and I'm tired of people making themselves look like idiots by spouting the party line.

    Rant over
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Bookman wrote:
    I see it on here every day; people blaming Progressive Liberals for every gun law and anti-gun sentiment in existence. I just want to remind everyone that the Brady Campaign was founded by REPUBLICANS. That's right. Sarah Brady, the wife of Jim Brady, who was shot in the head during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley in order to impress Jodie Foster was a Republican.

    And please don't accuse me of being a Liberal because I'm not. I'm a little to the right of center and I'm tired of people making themselves look like idiots by spouting the party line.

    Rant over
    Folks on the left tend to be pro-gun control. Folks on the right tend to be pro-RKBA. Yes, there are exceptions. Pointing out exceptions merely proves my favorite bit of irony: All absolutes are false.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    eye95 wrote:
    All absolutes are false.
    Absolutely!!!

    :P:what:
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Really, people on the right are pro-RKBA. I don't buy that, never did -- especially when both parties have restricted the rights more and more. The biggest progress in RKBA has been made under OBAMA -- who has signed legislation allowing, among other things, carry in national parks.

    Oh, I'm not crediting him, but don't see that Bush, Reagan, Clinton... anyone cared.

    eye95 wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    I see it on here every day; people blaming Progressive Liberals for every gun law and anti-gun sentiment in existence. I just want to remind everyone that the Brady Campaign was founded by REPUBLICANS. That's right. Sarah Brady, the wife of Jim Brady, who was shot in the head during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley in order to impress Jodie Foster was a Republican.

    And please don't accuse me of being a Liberal because I'm not. I'm a little to the right of center and I'm tired of people making themselves look like idiots by spouting the party line.

    Rant over
    Folks on the left tend to be pro-gun control. Folks on the right tend to be pro-RKBA. Yes, there are exceptions. Pointing out exceptions merely proves my favorite bit of irony: All absolutes are false.

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    Yeah, they're all the same.

    That thinking brought us the last 16 months. They are not all the same.

    None are perfect. What to do? Vote for the best, not for the perfect.

    And, for RKBA, the best is generally the guy on the right.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    We need someone who is constitutionalist and from niether party to be elecected.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    We need someone who is constitutionalist and from niether party to be elecected.
    Not going to happen. And, trying to make it happen is giving us leftists.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    eye95 wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    We need someone who is constitutionalist and from niether party to be elecected.
    Not going to happen.* And, trying to make it happen is giving us leftists.
    Well, thanks for being part of the problem. Wonderful strategy we Americans have for protecting our liberty! The lesser of two evils! Brilliant.

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    eye95 wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    We need someone who is constitutionalist and from niether party to be elecected.
    Not going to happen. And, trying to make it happen is giving us leftists.
    I think it might maybe not right away, but americans are getting sick of the fake two party system. Why is it only around 30% of U.S. population votes? I think it is simply because most can't really relate to the fake left or the fake right, and that in reality most are fairly constitutionally inclined. So we have presidents and politicians that run our country with less than a 15% vote of the general public.

    Whatcom county is a very "liberal" left county, but if the vote for president in the last election was based soley on our votes here, Ron Paul would have won and he was the most constitutional canidate of them all. Ron Paul did quite well and the only reason he didn't do better was the thinking of well we are throwing away our votes. Oh and the fact that he was shut out of most debates by the republicans and democrats.

    The Tea Party movement isnt' a Dem/Rep thing....and is a growing movement in the right direction and many folks are starting to realize we have a voice and we can work to stop this "progressive" crap from continuing. Republicans haven't been the party of "freedom"or"the constitution"either. Like I always say if you want socialism now vote democrat if you want it in 10 years vote republican.


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Bookman wrote:
    I see it on here every day; people blaming Progressive Liberals for every gun law and anti-gun sentiment in existence. I just want to remind everyone that the Brady Campaign was founded by REPUBLICANS. That's right. Sarah Brady, the wife of Jim Brady, who was shot in the head during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley in order to impress Jodie Foster was a Republican.

    And please don't accuse me of being a Liberal because I'm not. I'm a little to the right of center and I'm tired of people making themselves look like idiots by spouting the party line.

    Rant over
    Wrong-o Bookman. The Brady Campaign started when poor, grieving Sarah was latched onto by a coalition of lefties and RINOS called Handgun Control Inc. She was then love-bombed and seduced by these ghouls until she was convinced to lend her famous name and tragedy to their org, which - to stroke her ego - they renamed the "Brady Campaign".

    I mean, the poor woman wound up with a poached egg for a husband. No wonder she went nuts and fell for their crapola.

    And before you start up, I know all about Helmke. The man is such a RINO I bet he takes a daily dust wallow while his parakeet eats ticks off his body.

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    Pace wrote:
    Really, people on the right are pro-RKBA. I don't buy that, never did -- especially when both parties have restricted the rights more and more. The biggest progress in RKBA has been made under OBAMA -- who has signed legislation allowing, among other things, carry in national parks.

    Oh, I'm not crediting him, but don't see that Bush, Reagan, Clinton... anyone cared.

    eye95 wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    I see it on here every day; people blaming Progressive Liberals for every gun law and anti-gun sentiment in existence. I just want to remind everyone that the Brady Campaign was founded by REPUBLICANS. That's right. Sarah Brady, the wife of Jim Brady, who was shot in the head during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley in order to impress Jodie Foster was a Republican.

    And please don't accuse me of being a Liberal because I'm not. I'm a little to the right of center and I'm tired of people making themselves look like idiots by spouting the party line.

    Rant over
    Folks on the left tend to be pro-gun control. Folks on the right tend to be pro-RKBA. Yes, there are exceptions. Pointing out exceptions merely proves my favorite bit of irony: All absolutes are false.
    Obama supported the DC ban and supports the Chicago ban. The only reason the left in power now (Obama, yes, a leftist) doesn't try to pass sweeping
    restriction on RKBA is because of the pro 2A sentiments of the populace now and
    because of the recent heller decision. They know it is a losing issue for them right
    now.

    Jim Brady was shot in the head and has very little mind left. If he had all of his
    faculties, he would have put Sarah over his knee and whipped her ass.
    Just because her husband was a conservative doesn't mean she was. Now that
    Mr. Brady can't lead his family, she leads with her beliefs. I promise you almost
    everyone else in Brady Bunch is left and vote Dem! As I'm sure Sarah does now.

    In the Heller decision were did the 4 dissents come from?

    The only place that freedom will be restored is on the right. I agree "some"
    Reps play to close to the middle and a very, very few ( 2 or 3 ) play left of center.
    But , I can't comprehend how anyone can't see that the enemy of freedom is the left,which is the vast majority of the Dems!!

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    marshaul wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    We need someone who is constitutionalist and from niether party to be elecected.
    Not going to happen. And, trying to make it happen is giving us leftists.
    Well, thanks for being part of the problem. Wonderful strategy we Americans have for protecting our liberty! The lesser of two evils! Brilliant
    Keep thinking that way. Thank you for Obama, Pelosi, and Reed. The quest for the perfect has given us the worst.

    Once again, look to how the leftists took power and keep it. They are the majority in the majority party. So, despite being a minority, hard-leftists are in near-total control. How does the right get it back? By nominating the most Liberty-loving candidates in the more Liberty-loving party. Once the majority of Republican office-holders are Liberty-loving and once the Republican party is the majority party, we will have the POWER to restore Liberty.

    Of course, folks can continue to stamp their feet, throw a political tantrum, and throw their vote away because they find a candidate who can actually win not perfectly in line with their political views.

    Yeah. That's the solution. That's not the problem.

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    marshaul wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    We need someone who is constitutionalist and from niether party to be elecected.
    Not going to happen. And, trying to make it happen is giving us leftists.
    Well, thanks for being part of the problem. Wonderful strategy we Americans have for protecting our liberty! The lesser of two evils! Brilliant.
    Marshaul,

    I do understand your sentiments on this, but to split the vote of the " people that
    love liberty"( I don't think you like the word conservative) would ensure the election
    of the "people that want to restrict it".

    Under the current 2 party system, the only real chance we have, is to fix, reshape the Rep party or revolution.

    I too would like to see a constitutionalist party in power, but to vote third party now
    would only bring us the other way.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Hunterdave wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    We need someone who is constitutionalist and from niether party to be elecected.
    Not going to happen. And, trying to make it happen is giving us leftists.
    Well, thanks for being part of the problem. Wonderful strategy we Americans have for protecting our liberty! The lesser of two evils! Brilliant.
    Marshaul,

    I do understand your sentiments on this, but to split the vote of the " people that
    love liberty"( I don't think you like the word conservative) would ensure the election
    of the "people that want to restrict it".

    Under the current 2 party system, the only real chance we have, is to fix, reshape the Rep party or revolution.

    I too would like to see a constitutionalist party in power, but to vote third party now
    would only bring us the other way.
    Another brilliant mind at work.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Pace wrote:
    Really, people on the right are pro-RKBA. I don't buy that, never did -- especially when both parties have restricted the rights more and more. The biggest progress in RKBA has been made under OBAMA -- who has signed legislation allowing, among other things, carry in national parks.

    Oh, I'm not crediting him, but don't see that Bush, Reagan, Clinton... anyone cared.

    eye95 wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    I see it on here every day; people blaming Progressive Liberals for every gun law and anti-gun sentiment in existence. I just want to remind everyone that the Brady Campaign was founded by REPUBLICANS. That's right. Sarah Brady, the wife of Jim Brady, who was shot in the head during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley in order to impress Jodie Foster was a Republican.

    And please don't accuse me of being a Liberal because I'm not. I'm a little to the right of center and I'm tired of people making themselves look like idiots by spouting the party line.

    Rant over
    Folks on the left tend to be pro-gun control. Folks on the right tend to be pro-RKBA. Yes, there are exceptions. Pointing out exceptions merely proves my favorite bit of irony: All absolutes are false.

    Yeah, Obama could take credit for that but for two tiny details.

    First, BUSH passed that one before leaving office. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_148959.html) The feds suspended it almost immediately after Obama took office, and some BS about having to do an environmental impact study on lead was used as the excuse. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...031902801.html) Some reports (even from Fox News) do, however, suggest that Obama's administration 'supported' the change. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ational-parks/)

    Secondly, it came back because it was attached to the credit card reform bill by a republican. Obama would've had to veto the entire CC bill in order to stop that amendment. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_205428.html)




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    Thoreau wrote:
    Pace wrote:
    Really, people on the right are pro-RKBA. I don't buy that, never did -- especially when both parties have restricted the rights more and more. The biggest progress in RKBA has been made under OBAMA -- who has signed legislation allowing, among other things, carry in national parks.

    Oh, I'm not crediting him, but don't see that Bush, Reagan, Clinton... anyone cared.

    eye95 wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    I see it on here every day; people blaming Progressive Liberals for every gun law and anti-gun sentiment in existence. I just want to remind everyone that the Brady Campaign was founded by REPUBLICANS. That's right. Sarah Brady, the wife of Jim Brady, who was shot in the head during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley in order to impress Jodie Foster was a Republican.

    And please don't accuse me of being a Liberal because I'm not. I'm a little to the right of center and I'm tired of people making themselves look like idiots by spouting the party line.

    Rant over
    Folks on the left tend to be pro-gun control. Folks on the right tend to be pro-RKBA. Yes, there are exceptions. Pointing out exceptions merely proves my favorite bit of irony: All absolutes are false.
    Yeah, Obama could take credit for that but for two tiny details.

    First, BUSH passed that one before leaving office. The Obama administration suspended it immediately upon taking office, and some BS about having to do an environmental impact study on lead was used as the excuse.

    Secondly, it came back because it was attached to the credit card reform bill by a republican. Obama would've had to veto the entire CC bill in order to stop that amendment.
    Your post also disposes of the myth that President Obama did nothing to restrict gun rights. In amongst all the other repressive things he was doing, I had forgotten about the suspension of that particular relaxation of gun law.

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    eye95 wrote:
    Thoreau wrote:
    Pace wrote:
    Really, people on the right are pro-RKBA. I don't buy that, never did -- especially when both parties have restricted the rights more and more. The biggest progress in RKBA has been made under OBAMA -- who has signed legislation allowing, among other things, carry in national parks.

    Oh, I'm not crediting him, but don't see that Bush, Reagan, Clinton... anyone cared.

    eye95 wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    I see it on here every day; people blaming Progressive Liberals for every gun law and anti-gun sentiment in existence. I just want to remind everyone that the Brady Campaign was founded by REPUBLICANS. That's right. Sarah Brady, the wife of Jim Brady, who was shot in the head during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley in order to impress Jodie Foster was a Republican.

    And please don't accuse me of being a Liberal because I'm not. I'm a little to the right of center and I'm tired of people making themselves look like idiots by spouting the party line.

    Rant over
    Folks on the left tend to be pro-gun control. Folks on the right tend to be pro-RKBA. Yes, there are exceptions. Pointing out exceptions merely proves my favorite bit of irony: All absolutes are false.
    Yeah, Obama could take credit for that but for two tiny details.

    First, BUSH passed that one before leaving office. The Obama administration suspended it immediately upon taking office, and some BS about having to do an environmental impact study on lead was used as the excuse.

    Secondly, it came back because it was attached to the credit card reform bill by a republican. Obama would've had to veto the entire CC bill in order to stop that amendment.
    Your post also disposes of the myth that President Obama did nothing to restrict gun rights. In amongst all the other repressive things he was doing, I had forgotten about the suspension of that particular relaxation of gun law.

    I just updated my post to reflect some newfound (for me) info on the matter. Namely, that it wasn't (officially) the obama administration that nuked the new law, although if memory serves, he suspended EVERY last-minute law Bush signed in before he had left office, in order to 'review' them. This did, however, leave the door open to the rest of the fed to do what they did... leave it in limbo, nullify it, etc. all the while allowing the administration to claim they supported it all along.

    I can't speak for Obama, but I honestly do not believe he was saddened to see a liberty being taken away again. That's the beauty of being the POTUS. Through various layers of obfuscation you can enjoy a certain degree of plausible deniability.

    That said, anyone who thinks Obama is, has been, or ever will be pro-2a is kidding themselves. There is a reason that once he took office, whitehouse.gov listed getting the federal assault weapons ban reinstated as a priority under their 'urban' section. (That magically disappeared a few months later, but our friendly new Attorney General, Eric Holder, is also on record numerous times showing support for the ban.)

    The only reason the administration hasn't made any overt attacks on the right is because as others have said, it's a losing battle right now, and they have other progressive agenda items that they CAN make progress on in the meantime. "Allowing" Chris B. to be outside the Obama event in Phoenix with his AR should not be construed as the administration supporting it, but instead as being shitstorm-avoidance.

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Bookman wrote:
    I see it on here every day; people blaming Progressive Liberals for every gun law and anti-gun sentiment in existence. I just want to remind everyone that the Brady Campaign was founded by REPUBLICANS. That's right. Sarah Brady, the wife of Jim Brady, who was shot in the head during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley in order to impress Jodie Foster was a Republican.

    And please don't accuse me of being a Liberal because I'm not. I'm a little to the right of center and I'm tired of people making themselves look like idiots by spouting the party line.

    Rant over
    Ever hear of a RINO? Just checking... because you seem to use the name Republican like it is somehow synonymous with conservative... its not.

    The Brady's are progressive liberals. Progressivism has infected both the Republican and Democrat parties, but while the Democrat cancer is over and the Democrat party is dead to reason... the Republican party is still hanging on with members like Ron Paul and others who no one currently pays attention to.

    So back to the main point... Liberals and Progressives ARE 100% to blame for gun laws and restrictions... they just infest both parties so they can obfuscate and confuse the argument by pointing out JUST what you pointed out and say SEE SEE Republicans also are for gun control.

    The way you've posed the argument is in fact a logical fallacy called a Strawman.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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  20. #20
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    Jesse Ventura supports the 2nd amendment

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffi7FMhfDnA

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Isn't he from Ross Perot's party?


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I know he's an independent.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    I see it on here every day; people blaming Progressive Liberals for every gun law and anti-gun sentiment in existence. I just want to remind everyone that the Brady Campaign was founded by REPUBLICANS. That's right. Sarah Brady, the wife of Jim Brady, who was shot in the head during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by John Hinkley in order to impress Jodie Foster was a Republican.

    And please don't accuse me of being a Liberal because I'm not. I'm a little to the right of center and I'm tired of people making themselves look like idiots by spouting the party line.

    Rant over
    Ever hear of a RINO? Just checking... because you seem to use the name Republican like it is somehow synonymous with conservative... its not.

    The Brady's are progressive liberals. Progressivism has infected both the Republican and Democrat parties, but while the Democrat cancer is over and the Democrat party is dead to reason... the Republican party is still hanging on with members like Ron Paul and others who no one currently pays attention to.

    So back to the main point... Liberals and Progressives ARE 100% to blame for gun laws and restrictions... they just infest both parties so they can obfuscate and confuse the argument by pointing out JUST what you pointed out and say SEE SEE Republicans also are for gun control.

    The way you've posed the argument is in fact a logical fallacy called a Strawman.
    So I used the wrong word. Big deal. It is still a fact that there are CONSERVATIVES who support gun control.

    Straw man my
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    And Bookman is absolutely right about that.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    a conservative view of gun control should be!!

    1/4 MOA
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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