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Thread: MWAG call about me today

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    I met a male friend i went to high school with for lunch today at Del Taco in Summerlin. We got there around 12:30ish, and i had decided to wear a white shirt today, and was OCing my gun in an IWB holster. Pretty noticeable compared to my usual black. 2 girls (lets call them A and B) from the school we both graduated from came in on their lunch. Im almost 19, so i just graduated last year, i still know some of the people at my old school. Well, i saw one of them looking at us, but it looked like she was staring at my friend, not the gun, so i was thinking maybe she recognized him. She walked over to her friend who was 1 table down from us, and started whispering. I caught the gun word, but was not prepared for what happened next.

    She (A) asked me if i have a license. I explained that i did not, and it was Nevada, and the 2nd amendment was all i needed. She told me i was wrong, and i needed a license. I once again assured her i did not, and her and the friend (A and B) moved across the restaurant to the other side. She(A) walked out front on her cell phone, and i told my male friend she was calling the cops, which was an accurate guess. While she was on the phone, i had a nice discussion with 2 other customers in line, who i was able to educate about the laws, and one of them owned pistols, just didnt know he could carry, said he was going to look into it. Another guy come over and whispered that the girl(A) was throwing a fit outside, and just wanted to let me know so i would be ready for what was coming.

    Well some more kids from the school came in, and i knew a couple from one group, so they sat next to us. Another girl i knew came in(lets call her C), and started talking to the girl(A) that called me in. I called out her name to say hi, so she(C) came over and we talked a bit since i havent seen her in a while. It had been about 10-15 min after "A" ended her approx. 20 min phone call. My male friend and i sort of decided that dispatch must have calmed "A" down, and nobody was coming. Couple min later 1 metro officer pulls up, and walks in.

    I rose my hand and said "Im over here to save you some time." He came over, told me I wasn't breaking any laws, and asked if i had my blue card on me, i said i did not. He acknowledged that i didnt need it, and started talking about how private property can ask you to leave, etc. and i said i know, but management had not talked to me. He started looking behind the counter and i said that girl(A) over there was just freaking out and must have called you. Hes still looking at the employees and asks which one, so i pointed her(A) out and his response was "Oh...she doesn't even work here?"

    Well he walked over there, seems like "A" was arguing with him for a bit, and he came back, pulled up a chair next to me, and said that he told "A" it was legal, and asked if it would be ok with me if he verified registration. I wanted to make life easier for him, so i showed him the copy of my blue card and id, just because i could tell he didnt really want to be dealing with the stuck up high school girl(A). He didnt look at my gun, didnt disarm me, didnt even ask if it was the same as the one on the copy. I thanked him, and shook his hand, he walked over to "A", talked some more, and walked outside.

    I finished eating shortly after, and stepped outside. One of the customers who i was talking to before was talking to him about the laws i told him about, and how he was going to start carrying. I joined in on the conversation, and the cop said that personally he feels its a stupid law, and that only cops should be armed, but the law is the law, and he has to deal with it. He then admitted to being from New York. He then reitterated that his personal opinion didnt matter, and he didnt have a problem with it as long as it was a law abiding citizen (kind of contradicting himself, but whatever).

    The girl and the original friend that called me in then walked out(A and B), i told them to have a good day, and in response i was told to "F$%k off, we dont talk to strangers"

    My friend(C) who was talking to"A" earlier, and came to say hi to me in the restaurant, had also joined us outside to talk to the officer. She later got yelled at by "A" for talking to me, and making her look like the bad guy. Well i found out from"C", that "A" is still enraged about the incident several hours later, and looked it up online, apparently the cop was wrong, or so she insists.

    My old government teacher is going to bring it up tomorrow when he has "A" in his class. I think he is going to start talking about gun laws, and then propose a scenario. The scenario he is going to bring up is: "Suppose you walk into a del taco for lunch, and there is a man in a white tshirt and brown shorts openly carrying a firearm" (That was my outfit today, haha) So ill let you know how "A" reacts to that in class tomorrow, and im going to see if "C" can tell me where "A" is getting lunch the next time, so i can swing by for some food. Maybe "A" will call it in again hoping for a different cop.

    Anyways, sorry about the novel, i just wanted to be as detailed as i could while i still remember everything.

    Questions: I have the incident number, officer name, and badge number. I want to write a letter commending him for the excellent and professional behavior, what should i say and who do i send it to?

    Can i get the 311 call tape or transcript? Is that something that can be obtained from a freedom of information type request? How do i go about doing that?

    Thanks! Any input is appreciated. Ive never gotten to speak to so many people about it before, i think 4 customers were asking questions and 1 employee came up to me after asking about what he had to do to be able to carry, so i managed to educate a ton of people today! The rest of the people eating were either oblivious, didnt care, and one guy gave me a thumbs up as i was leaving.

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    all public employees have an email address. especially cops. if you get his email address than your message will pop up on his computer right away when hes on duty.

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    I don't know that he has done anything worthy of a pat on the back. He asked you for information you weren't required to give, nor he required to ask, twice. He also felt obliged to inform you of his opinion of law while on duty, which if I recall properly from a previous thread, is a violation of policy.

    All in all, he came, and he did his job, somewhat half-assed-ly in my opinion, and that to me isn't something worthy of recognition and especially not praise.

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    I was hoping to get it to a higher up or something along those lines. I already thanked him several times before he left.

    I also told him that i could respect his personal opinion even thought it varied from mine, and was glad that he realized that his opinion wasn't law(which he said himself right after stating what he personally believed), and even though he didn't agree with it, i was not lectured, but he just did his duty, and since i was not in violation of any law, left me alone, and was professional and curious the whole time.

    Does the Sheriff actually read the letters addressed to him? Or should i send it to a more immediate supervisor?

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    Totally great report on a very very very useful encounter. Lots of people were and will be educated about OC.


    "Let your gun be your companion on all your walks."
    -- Thomas Jefferson
    who might have wished he carried my .45ACP G-36 1+6+1

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    paintsnow wrote:
    ......."F$%k off, we dont talk to strangers".....
    Except when you want to be a busy body I guess..

    Reminds me of a few people I unfortunately have run across in my time.

    Time for yet another Heinlein quote: "Freedom begins when you can tell Mrs Grundy to go fly a kite"

    That outcome HAD to have felt good.. Kudos!

    -Adam

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    gmijackso wrote:
    I don't know that he has done anything worthy of a pat on the back. He asked you for information you weren't required to give, nor he required to ask, twice. He also felt obliged to inform you of his opinion of law while on duty, which if I recall properly from a previous thread, is a violation of policy.

    All in all, he came, and he did his job, somewhat half-assed-ly in my opinion, and that to me isn't something worthy of recognition and especially not praise.
    The first time he asked if i had my blue card on me, he wasnt asking to see it, although im sure that would have come after if i responded with a yes. When i said i didnt have it, he immediately knew i was not required to have it with me. Then he walked away to talk to the girl. The second time was after talking to the girl who was throwing the hissy fit. Im pretty sure he asked just to appease her. He didnt call it in, i never saw him even look at my gun through out the encounter, and he didnt ask to confirm the serial. He kind of had that "wtf am i doing here...why wont this stupid girl leave me alone" look on his face. I can totally understand that, he told me that dispatch had attempted to inform her it was legal, but she kept insisting so he got sent out. Having a high school girl argue with you and tell you your wrong to your face would piss me off too.

    And the part where he informed us of his opinion was after he had handled the call, he had actually left the building, and i caught up to him outside where he was having a friendly conversation with one of the customers. I realize he was still on duty, but at this point, it was more of a personal conversation. If he had mentioned this while still dealing with the call, i think it would have been different. I dont want to be lectured, or hear his opinion while he is performing official duties. I do realize cops are humans too though, i have several friends who happen to work for metro. I understand the reason for the policy, but he handled the actual incident he was called out to very professionally in my opinion.

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    Kriegsammler wrote:
    paintsnow wrote:
    ......."F$%k off, we dont talk to strangers".....
    Except when you want to be a busy body I guess..

    Reminds me of a few people I unfortunately have run across in my time.

    Time for yet another Heinlein quote: "Freedom begins when you can tell Mrs Grundy to go fly a kite"

    That outcome HAD to have felt good.. Kudos!

    -Adam
    LOL, EXACTLY.

    She interrupts my lunch in a b%^#%y manner, with a holier then thou tone, and expects me to SHOW her my "license". My friend told me she kept asking the cop why i didnt just show her my license, and kept telling him i was required to have one even though he told her it was legal, and no license or paperwork was required to carry. I guess she feels like she has some sort of authority and can go around demanding to see peoples ccws or "license" to carry. Maybe she should stop people at intersections and demand to see their drivers license, i mean, they could not be qualified to drive, or have a suspended or revoked license :O

    Hopefully ill see her at lunch again tomorrow



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    I realize he was still on duty, but at this point, it was more of a personal conversation.
    There are no personal conversations with police officers. Nothing is ever off the record. You Can respect and admire them for the work that they do, but to speak to them is only an invitation for trouble. If you want to give kudos to a good cop, a letter to the editor is a good medium to do it.
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    paintsnow wrote:
    I met a male friend i went to high school with for lunch today at Del Taco in Summerlin. We got there around 12:30ish,
    We must have been flooding the area cause i was just across the road at McDonalds eating and OCing at the same time.

    Funny i've never seen anyone else OCing in Summerlin.

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    infinitearms wrote:
    paintsnow wrote:
    I met a male friend i went to high school with for lunch today at Del Taco in Summerlin. We got there around 12:30ish,
    We must have been flooding the area cause i was just across the road at McDonalds eating and OCing at the same time.

    Funny i've never seen anyone else OCing in Summerlin.
    Damn! I wish I would have seen you, would have said hi!

    I carry in Summerlin all the time. If you live near by maybe we can grab lunch sometime. Possibly run into Miss Hissy fit. That will really send her over the top! lol

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    Well the very first thing I want to comment on is how well the story was written, I was able to understand the situation without trying to figure out what girl was who and what girl didn't like guns.
    Good for you being calm throughout.

    I just recently came back from Las Vegas, and as hard as I looked, I could not find a single person open carrying.

    Nice job


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    paintsnow wrote:
    and im going to see if "C" can tell me where "A" is getting lunch the next time, so i can swing by for some food. Maybe "A" will call it in again hoping for a different cop.
    That's probably not a good idea. She's obviously uncomfortable with it, and you're probably going to create a situation. It's one thing if you just happen to run into her, but going out looking for her could definitely send the wrong message. Read NRS 200.571, NRS 200.575 and NRS 200.591 and decide for yourself.

    As for the blue card, since it's a crime to have an unregistered pistol, this cop was trying to bust you for something. There is no other reason to ask other than to gather evidence to arrest you. Everyone is entitled to handle such a situation the way they choose, but why knowingly help someone who's trying to put you in jail?

    Overall, a very good encounter, nice job!

    Tim

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    timf343 wrote:
    paintsnow wrote:
    and im going to see if "C" can tell me where "A" is getting lunch the next time, so i can swing by for some food. Maybe "A" will call it in again hoping for a different cop.
    That's probably not a good idea. She's obviously uncomfortable with it, and you're probably going to create a situation. It's one thing if you just happen to run into her, but going out looking for her could definitely send the wrong message. Read NRS 200.571, NRS 200.575 and NRS 200.591 and decide for yourself.

    As for the blue card, since it's a crime to have an unregistered pistol, this cop was trying to bust you for something. There is no other reason to ask other than to gather evidence to arrest you. Everyone is entitled to handle such a situation the way they choose, but why knowingly help someone who's trying to put you in jail?

    Overall, a very good encounter, nice job!

    Tim
    +1 Good encounter.

    Be very careful with consensual encounters. LEO's job is to determine if any RAS exists. I generally answer a questioin with a question. Ex: In reply to "Do you have your blue card?" - "Why do you ask me that officer, don't you know I do not need to show it?" Solves a lot of problems, gives a message and always delivered with a smile.

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    Good job staying calm, my friend. With me it probably would've gone like this:

    LC(little c**t) -Do you have a license?
    Me(grizzly russian with a gun) -I do not need one.
    LC -You have to have a license!
    Me -Are you a peace officer?
    LC -Well no, but you must...
    Me -Go **** yourself.



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    gmijackso wrote:
    I don't know that he has done anything worthy of a pat on the back. He asked you for information you weren't required to give, nor he required to ask, twice. He also felt obliged to inform you of his opinion of law while on duty, which if I recall properly from a previous thread, is a violation of policy.

    All in all, he came, and he did his job, somewhat half-assed-ly in my opinion, and that to me isn't something worthy of recognition and especially not praise.
    This. Exactly. He gets a pat on the back from the boys back in the station, but not us. He did his fishing like a good cop does, not like one who obeys the oath he took.

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    paintsnow wrote:
    Kriegsammler wrote:
    paintsnow wrote:
    ......."F$%k off, we dont talk to strangers".....
    Except when you want to be a busy body I guess..

    Reminds me of a few people I unfortunately have run across in my time.

    Time for yet another Heinlein quote: "Freedom begins when you can tell Mrs Grundy to go fly a kite"

    That outcome HAD to have felt good.. Kudos!

    -Adam
    LOL, EXACTLY.

    She interrupts my lunch in a b%^#%y manner, with a holier then thou tone, and expects me to SHOW her my "license". My friend told me she kept asking the cop why i didnt just show her my license, and kept telling him i was required to have one even though he told her it was legal, and no license or paperwork was required to carry. I guess she feels like she has some sort of authority and can go around demanding to see peoples ccws or "license" to carry. Maybe she should stop people at intersections and demand to see their drivers license, i mean, they could not be qualified to drive, or have a suspended or revoked license :O

    Hopefully ill see her at lunch again tomorrow

    You sure managed to find a true-blue gun-grabber this time. There are plenty of 2A friendly Democrats and liberals, because gun rights often cross party lines. She, however, sure ain't one of them, and shows every sign of being an uber-liberal who feels she is required to take action. For your own good, you know.

    These people are fascinating, in a twisted kind of way. I'd find it interesting to know more about her social and political activities. Probably a card-carrying Brady-supporting, socialist activist, big-government-is-needed-to-control-such-behavior Kalifornian.

    When you think about, she's provided a lot of entertainment. Can you imagine being married to one like her? It'd be like trying to masturbate a wildcat in phone booth at least once a day.
    "Let your gun be your companion on all your walks."
    -- Thomas Jefferson
    who might have wished he carried my .45ACP G-36 1+6+1

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    Actually, "C" told me that "A" is a Republican. Funny right?

    I guess her grandfather or uncle or somebody is a big shot lawyer. People that know her told me she tends to start talking about things she knows nothing about and refuses to listen if you say anything other than she she believes.

    Even the teacher i know kind of hinted toward her being one of those stuck up, rich, entitled to everything, the world revolves around her, b@$%^&s.

    As to running into her at lunch again, i dont think it will be an issue. Im not planning on doing it repetitively, i guess "C" was going to have lunch with me at the same place "A" and "B" are going. I just want to see what she will do since she looked it up, insists i need a license, and swears the cop was wrong. Maybe this time since i know one of her friends ill be able to talk to her. Not sure. Surprisingly she wasn't yelling, or causing a scene, and stepped outside to make the phone call. I live about a mile from the school, and the fast food places the highschool kids go to , are the closest to school, and the closest to my house.




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    paintsnow wrote:
    the cop said that personally he feels its a stupid law, and that only cops should be armed, but the law is the law, and he has to deal with it.

    Questions: I have the incident number, officer name, and badge number. I want to write a letter commending him for the excellent and professional behavior, what should i say and who do i send it to?
    ALL letters to a police department should be sent to the Chief, and include a phrase something like "Please put a copy of this into the officer's permanent personnel records."

    I would also include a phrase like "Officer _______ mentioned that he believes the law to be a bad one, but despite his personal opinion, he acted in a highly professional and friendly manner. It's easy to follow a law that you believe in, but far more difficult to act as he did regarding a law which he feels to be a mistake."

    LETTERS MATTER. They help a bad cop find his way to a different job, and help a good cop get promoted to a position where his professionalism becomes a standard by which others are judged.

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    gmijackso wrote:
    I don't know that he has done anything worthy of a pat on the back.
    He suppressed his personal opinion, did his job, and was friendly to a guy he thinks shouldn't have been armed.

    In other words: "I don't like what you are doing, but I am here to defend your right to do it."

    THAT is DEFINITELY worth a pat on the back.



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    DVC wrote:
    gmijackso wrote:
    I don't know that he has done anything worthy of a pat on the back.
    He suppressed his personal opinion, did his job, and was friendly to a guy he thinks shouldn't have been armed.

    In other words: "I don't like what you are doing, but I am here to defend your right to do it."

    THAT is DEFINITELY worth a pat on the back.

    Exactly!

    He stood up for me, and was very friendly the whole time he was handling the call. If i had to, i would have guessed he was all for carrying and supported it. It wasnt until later outside when i joined in on the conversation he was having with the other guy about guns, and the laws in general when he made that comment. Even then he said he didnt have a problem with law abiding citizens carrying, he just didnt understand the law. I think it was from the brainwashing he received growing up in NY.

    I was having a hard time finding a good way of putting it, thanks DVC

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    paintsnow wrote:
    Does the Sheriff actually read the letters addressed to him? Or should i send it to a more immediate supervisor?
    The Sheriff or Chief will read any letter praising one of his or her people. They will read critical letters, IF they are well-phrased, not hysterical or over the top, and give specifics.

    The only time this is not true is when your letter is one among many regarding a particular incident and offering similar views.

    Of course, the secretary reads the letters first, and will pass them along.

    Whatever you write will filter down to the cop (BTW, a police department has officers, a sheriff's department has DEPUTIES) through the chain of command. In a large agency, this may be several levels, each of which will be given the word.

    ALWAYS request that the letter be placed in the officer's or deputy's PERMANENT personnel records. Otherwise -- especially for complaints -- the issue may be given "administrative action" then the letter trashed. By requesting that it go into the permanent records, they will be more likely to keep it in the jacket, in case you make later reference to it. NO agency lawyer wants to see ". . .as I mentioned in my letter of 24 April 2010 . . ." then be unable to find that letter, whether it's a criticism or compliment.

    Consider that your letter may be the deciding factor in that deputy keeping his job after someone tosses a complaint at the department about the deputy's demeanor.

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    timf343 wrote:
    As for the blue card, since it's a crime to have an unregistered pistol, this cop was trying to bust you for something. There is no other reason to ask other than to gather evidence to arrest you.
    I gotta disagree.

    The other reason for asking is because, if a discussion were to follow this, he would want to tell his supervisor "and I checked his blue card, he was all right."

    Little Miss Hoplophobe sounds like just the kind who would call the department to complain that the deputy hadn't done his job because there was no arrest. If I were the deputy, I would want to be able to say I had covered all of the bases.

    As described, I would give the deputy every Brownie point on the page for the way this was handled.

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    DVC, I think you restated exactly what I said. The only reason to ask was to gather evidence to arrest you. He covered all the bases, and most certainly would have cited OP if he found the firearm to be unregistered.

    I do not fault the officer for this in any way. I find fault with the OP answering the questions. Again, everyone can handle the situation any way he sees fit; to me it's just a matter of declining to cooperate with anyone who's trying to find a reason to arrest me. I've watched way too many episodes of COPS where a person winds up talking himself right into a pair of handcuffs.

    How many laws did you break today? An interesting study last year might surprise you. It should at least make you think.

    http://thecrimereport.org/2009/10/04...u-break-today/

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    DVC wrote:
    He suppressed his personal opinion, did his job, and was friendly to a guy he thinks shouldn't have been armed.

    In other words: "I don't like what you are doing, but I am here to defend your right to do it."
    See, I read it differently. I read it as:

    In other words: "I don't like what you are doing, but since you're not breaking any laws I'll just leave."

    He wasn't there defending anyone's rights, he was there to investigate whether a crime occurred and to arrest the perpetrator. Since he found no evidence of a crime, he had no choice but to leave.

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